DLDSR reduces input lag (Confirmed by Frameview + video)

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andrelip
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DLDSR reduces input lag (Confirmed by Frameview + video)

Post by andrelip » 04 Oct 2022, 13:45

Hey, I'm testing DLDSR with 2.5x and you can feel the difference immediately from switching from the default resolution to the upscaled one.

It's not a placebo and is easily reproducible. Just switch from the original resolution to the DLDSR one and check your game feel. Get used to the DLDSR one and try to switch back to the native one and see the pain.

Tested in CSGO with an RTX 3080.

You can use this in 4:3 too by forcing your highest res in CRU to be 4:3 (in my case 1440 x 1080).

## Technical comment:

I don't know if that translates directly to lower latency, but the mouse is clearly more responsive.

Theory 1: Maybe the GPU just deactivates the power savings to be "always ready" for deep learning processing? So it highly affects CPU-bound games.
Theory 2: Maybe it's just the GPU being more utilized and disabling some hidden power-saving features.
Theory 3: Maybe DLDSR has a different processing pipeline that doesn't block the CPU too much.


----
EDIT:

I tried this with Frame view 1.4 and Fortnite.

1920x1080 vs 2880x1620 (DLDSR virtual res)

I tested in Fortnite, setting the render scale to 16% to ensure no GPU bottleneck and testing both resolutions.
1920x1080 gave me 13-14ms of System Latency while 2880 gave me 8-9ms.

Video:

Capped at 180fps: https://youtube.com/shorts/UWRmp3WNyrs?feature=share
Uncapped: https://youtube.com/shorts/xKtPmGKz9NQ?feature=share

Considerations:

3080 - GPU frequency was locked and frequent in both cases.
The tool reported a smaller latency in 2880 even with higher GPU usage.
Reflex off in the video. Same result with Reflex ON
Last edited by andrelip on 19 Nov 2022, 17:08, edited 6 times in total.

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jorimt
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Re: DLDSR makes my game fast / moure more responsible

Post by jorimt » 04 Oct 2022, 14:07

andrelip wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 13:45
## Technical comment:

I don't know if that translates directly to lower latency, but the mouse is clearly more responsive.

Theory 1: Maybe the GPU just deactivates the power savings to be "always ready" for deep learning processing? So it highly affects CPU-bound games.
Theory 2: Maybe it's just the GPU being more utilized and disabling some hidden power-saving features.
Theory 3: Maybe DLDSR has a different processing pipeline that doesn't block the CPU too much.
If it's due to an upscaled resolution, probably none of the above...

The simplest explanation is the lower the effective resolution, the less DPI speed it takes to move the mouse from one side of the screen to the other.

So if you leave your mouse DPI the same at the upscaled res you had it at the native res, then the mouse will feel faster (effectively be more sensitive at the same DPI) at the upscaled res, which may give the impression of more responsiveness.

That, and the lower the internal resolution, the easier it is on your GPU (primarily, along with all the other components, where the less demand on your system equals a higher framerate, which equals less frametime latency), so if native res maxes your GPU at the same framerate the upscaled res doesn't, then you won't be experiencing the additional buffering with the upscaled res caused by a maxed GPU.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

andrelip
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Re: DLDSR makes my game fast / moure more responsible

Post by andrelip » 04 Oct 2022, 14:20

jorimt wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 14:07
andrelip wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 13:45
## Technical comment:

I don't know if that translates directly to lower latency, but the mouse is clearly more responsive.

Theory 1: Maybe the GPU just deactivates the power savings to be "always ready" for deep learning processing? So it highly affects CPU-bound games.
Theory 2: Maybe it's just the GPU being more utilized and disabling some hidden power-saving features.
Theory 3: Maybe DLDSR has a different processing pipeline that doesn't block the CPU too much.
If it's due to an upscaled resolution, probably none of the above...

The simplest explanation is the lower the effective resolution, the less DPI speed it takes to move the mouse from one side of the screen to the other.

So if you leave your mouse DPI the same at the upscaled res you had it at the native res, then the mouse will feel faster (effectively be more sensitive at the same DPI) at the upscaled res, which may give the impression of more responsiveness.

That, and the lower the internal resolution, the easier it is on your GPU (primarily, along with all the other components, where the less demand on your system equals a higher framerate, which equals less frame-time latency), so if native res maxes your GPU at the same framerate the upscaled res doesn't, then you won't be experiencing the additional buffering with the upscaled res caused by a maxed GPU.
Hey Jorimt,

Thanks for your reply.

I'm talking about DLDSR here but your reply seems to be describing DLSS. DLDSR is the opposite, it renders at a higher resolution and then downscale back to the display native resolution with deep learning.

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jorimt
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Re: DLDSR makes my game fast / moure more responsible

Post by jorimt » 04 Oct 2022, 14:56

andrelip wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 14:20
I'm talking about DLDSR here but your reply seems to be describing DLSS. DLDSR is the opposite, it renders at a higher resolution and then downscale back to the display native resolution with deep learning.
I'm aware, but I wasn't referencing DLDSR specifically, only any upscaling component it has (I.E. the reconstructive AI, and adjoining performance savings), which is the only factor I can currently imagine would have an effect on what you're describing about the mouse.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

andrelip
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Re: DLDSR makes the game faster / mouse more responsible

Post by andrelip » 05 Oct 2022, 17:29

I did other tests creating DLDSR on top of a minimal resolution (800x600) using CRU and could not reproduce the effect. The game felt draggy in both resolutions.

So my conclusions:

- The GPU usage does matter. Not intuitive, but the game felt better with higher GPU usage (50~80).

- 100% reproductive. I can turn it on and off just by switching the resolution.

Additional Info:
- Locked Frequency Afterburner.
- No apparent Throttle in the AB or GPU-Z. No difference in the graphs except the usage and power.
- p0 state all the type

This points out that NVIDIA's power-saving features are not documented for the end users (at least for the 3080). So the “fix” is to increase the load to moderate levels to avoid this from kicking in.

cobson
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Re: DLDSR makes my game fast / moure more responsible

Post by cobson » 06 Oct 2022, 08:00

jorimt wrote:
04 Oct 2022, 14:07


If it's due to an upscaled resolution, probably none of the above...

The simplest explanation is the lower the effective resolution, the less DPI speed it takes to move the mouse from one side of the screen to the other.

So if you leave your mouse DPI the same at the upscaled res you had it at the native res, then the mouse will feel faster (effectively be more sensitive at the same DPI) at the upscaled res, which may give the impression of more responsiveness.

That, and the lower the internal resolution, the easier it is on your GPU (primarily, along with all the other components, where the less demand on your system equals a higher framerate, which equals less frametime latency), so if native res maxes your GPU at the same framerate the upscaled res doesn't, then you won't be experiencing the additional buffering with the upscaled res caused by a maxed GPU.
Resolution wouldn't affect sensitivity in an fps

CSGO isn't going to bottleneck a 3080

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Re: DLDSR makes my game fast / moure more responsible

Post by jorimt » 06 Oct 2022, 08:23

cobson wrote:
06 Oct 2022, 08:00
Resolution wouldn't affect sensitivity in an fps
It can affect DPI-feel, which I already explained. Whether it would in CS:GO in particular is another question (from what I recall, it doesn't).

This thread is a bit deja vu. After commenting in it, I remember having a similar convo with the OP before this (in a very similar thread to this one):
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6657&hilit=jorimt
cobson wrote:
06 Oct 2022, 08:00
CSGO isn't going to bottleneck a 3080
Didn't say it would. CS:GO is famously CPU-dependent.

The OP's findings and reporting on said findings weren't definitive enough for me to say any more than I did, which is why I kept my comments general. I just have to assume what they're experiencing is real.

This forum is so full of abstract and subjective user reports the past few years, it's hard to comment on anything.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

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Re: DLDSR makes the game faster / mouse more responsible

Post by jorimt » 06 Oct 2022, 09:27

andrelip wrote:
05 Oct 2022, 17:29
This points out that NVIDIA's power-saving features are not documented for the end users (at least for the 3080). So the “fix” is to increase the load to moderate levels to avoid this from kicking in.
If that's the case, I'd assume a similar improvement would be seen by setting "Power management mode" to "Prefer maximum performance" in the NVCP, which is what I usually do for legacy games that will otherwise downclock my 3080 like mad.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

andrelip
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Re: DLDSR makes the game faster / mouse more responsible

Post by andrelip » 06 Oct 2022, 16:39

I think they are doing additional PS management other than p-states.

All the tests were conducted in p0 (according to nvidia-smi) and prefer maximum performance was on.

If the GPU render time is shorter, it should have the opposite effect.

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jorimt
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Re: DLDSR makes the game faster / mouse more responsible

Post by jorimt » 06 Oct 2022, 16:44

andrelip wrote:
06 Oct 2022, 16:39
I think they are doing additional PS management other than p-states.

All the tests were conducted in p0.

If the GPU render time is shorter, it should have the opposite effect.
Yeah, beats me; the more nuanced aspects of Nvidia GPU power management are somewhat of a blackbox, especially on their newer models.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

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