How do you disable Core Parking now?

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masneb
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Re: How do you disable Core Parking now?

Post by masneb » 16 Mar 2023, 04:58

jorimt wrote:
15 Mar 2023, 08:46
masneb wrote:
15 Mar 2023, 08:32
Yup, I'm aware of the thread scheduler tweaks for W11... I'm pointing out if W11 is parking cores, even with core parking off, that's not a optimization, it's intentional sabotage.
You'd have to take it up with Intel and Microsoft, though I'd assume core parking behavior can be tied/related to scheduling in this specific instance.

As for "intentional sabotage," that's an odd way of framing an upgraded OS with a scheduler built from the ground-up specifically for new Intel CPU types. I'm no Microsoft fan, and Windows 11 still needs tons of work (things like the new right-click context menu are absolutely mind-numbingly stupid), but the hate they constantly get online is bordering on hyperbolic and nonsensical; Windows 10 is pushing 8 years old, so when is it "too soon" to expect them to move on to a newer operating system with exclusive features?
Apparently I edited this after you saw it. W10 has the problem with core parking, not W11. W11 seems to 'fix' the erroneous forced core parking. W11 doesn't have the issues. W10 isn't 8 years old. They didn't stop updating it 8 years ago, when they decided to to switch to W11, they stopped updating it with the changes W11 saw, probably 2021.

So once again I'm not pointing out that it doesn't support my 13900k, but rather it seems it's going out of it's way to reduce the effectiveness of my 13900k by parking 3 out of 8p cores even with core parking disabled. My 5900x did not have this behavior and I explicitly shut it off. In w11 it doesn't do it.
InputLagger wrote:
15 Mar 2023, 17:13
Cores can be unparked via quickCPU program too, if you already have it
If you read from the OP, the problem I was having was with core parking remained even after disabling core parking in W10. Nothing would shut it off.

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jorimt
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Re: How do you disable Core Parking now?

Post by jorimt » 16 Mar 2023, 09:10

masneb wrote:
16 Mar 2023, 04:58
Apparently I edited this after you saw it.
The particular line I quoted of yours is still the same in your original post as of writing this:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=11690&start=10#p91833
masneb wrote:
16 Mar 2023, 04:58
W10 has the problem with core parking, not W11. W11 seems to 'fix' the erroneous forced core parking. W11 doesn't have the issues.

W10 isn't 8 years old. They didn't stop updating it 8 years ago, when they decided to to switch to W11, they stopped updating it with the changes W11 saw, probably 2021.

So once again I'm not pointing out that it doesn't support my 13900k, but rather it seems it's going out of it's way to reduce the effectiveness of my 13900k by parking 3 out of 8p cores even with core parking disabled. My 5900x did not have this behavior and I explicitly shut it off. In w11 it doesn't do it.
For 13th gen Intel. Because you said you didn't experience this on an AMD CPU, which means, again, Windows 10 isn't "going out of it's way" to hobble 12th and 13th gen performance, rather it's not optimized as well as Windows 11 for those processors (and their unique hybrid P and E-core mix), and they decided not to backport any of those improvements, or more accurately, turn that aspect of Windows 10 into Windows 11, since it is my understanding that Windows 10 does have a version of the Windows 11 scheduler and optimizations for 12th and 13th gen, but they aren't as complete as they are in Windows 11 because software architecture differences between the two OS versions.

Whether that is an artificial limitation or not isn't something I will bother to speculate on.

And for all we know, the particular core parking issue you are experiencing in Windows 10 with a 13th gen Intel CPU may or may not be repeatable by other users and could be an install or configuration issue fixed by a new install; all we know at this point is a new install of Windows 11 didn't have the same issue on your particular configuration.

Finally, yes, Windows 10 is coming up on 8 years old. It officially released on July 29, 2015. It doesn't matter how long they keep updating it after release, it's still nearly 8 years old.

Windows 11 released on October 5, 2021, over 6 years after Windows 10 released. This is a much larger gap in releases than what Microsoft used to do; from Windows 95 to Windows XP, for instance, a new consumer version released every 1-2 years.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

masneb
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Re: How do you disable Core Parking now?

Post by masneb » 17 Mar 2023, 09:49

I would disagree, just because something was made years ago doesn't mean it's the same product as when it first came out. W10 has had a lot of upgrades and changes along the way. The reason I pointed out that W10 hobbling might be sabotage is because if it's true, it could potentially be fixed by the community.

So, the very fact that the cores are parked means extra code was inserted into W10 to park those cores. It's not normal core parking, as it would be disabled at the OS level with programs that disable core parking. This 'special' core parking intentionally parks 3 out of the 8 cores and would possibly explain some of the performance differences they're seeing between W10 and W11. You can't turn it off.

I didn't do a fresh install of W11, I upgraded from W10.

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jorimt
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Re: How do you disable Core Parking now?

Post by jorimt » 17 Mar 2023, 10:20

masneb wrote:
17 Mar 2023, 09:49
I would disagree
That a company is allowed to stop fully supporting a much older version of their own software for a newer version without being considered underhanded because it's inconvenient for your very specific use case, even though you're now using hardware that's simply more suited to the newer OS (which is even explicitly officially advertised as such)?

I am all for bashing a company for the things they're actually failing or being underhanded on, but making potentially spurious correlations without fully validating it first is something I'm personally tired of seeing happen time-and-time again on the internet.
masneb wrote:
17 Mar 2023, 09:49
The reason I pointed out that W10 hobbling might be sabotage is because if it's true, it could potentially be fixed by the community.

So, the very fact that the cores are parked means extra code was inserted into W10 to park those cores. It's not normal core parking, as it would be disabled at the OS level with programs that disable core parking. This 'special' core parking intentionally parks 3 out of the 8 cores and would possibly explain some of the performance differences they're seeing between W10 and W11. You can't turn it off.
The fact that you're jumping straight to "sabotage" again, and immediately assuming Microsoft went out of their way at some point to add "extra code" to Windows 10 to specifically make this occur only on 13th gen Intel CPUs (you already stated it didn't happen with your AMD CPU), instead of it more likely being a bug in your case, and/or a "lack" of extra code in Windows 10 (to accommodate the specific hybrid 12/13th gen CPU architecture) that is only present in Windows 11 (I.E. the updated scheduler, etc), is...perplexing.

Have you searched the web to see if others have had your same core parking issue with a 13900k in Windows 10? If not, again, it still could have been a simple one-off bug and/or configuration issue (potentially ultimately out of your control, even if you were doing everything "right") on your particular install.
masneb wrote:
17 Mar 2023, 09:49
I didn't do a fresh install of W11, I upgraded from W10.
Doesn't necessarily rule anything out, since upgrading from Windows 10 to 11 likely replaces all the OS files anyway.

Regardless, since an upgrade to Windows 11 fixed it, you're original issue is technically solved. So all that's really left to do is keep using Windows 11, or to do a clean install of Windows 10 and see if it happens again.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

Kaido
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Re: How do you disable Core Parking now?

Post by Kaido » 10 Aug 2023, 13:19

I realize this is an old thread but I was wondering if the thread director is actually using core parking to do its thing in Windows 11 with 12th/13th gen Intel cpus? I play Quake Live and it really hates core parking and performs quite badly in W11 by default. I'm tempted to disable core parking with ParkControl-tool for balanced power plan, but I'm wondering if it actually "breaks" thread director.

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jorimt
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Re: How do you disable Core Parking now?

Post by jorimt » 10 Aug 2023, 13:45

Kaido wrote:
10 Aug 2023, 13:19
I'm tempted to disable core parking with ParkControl-tool for balanced power plan, but I'm wondering if it actually "breaks" thread director.
I'm using the below configuration with a 13900k in Windows 11 Pro without issue:

1. Control Panel > Power Options > Balanced.
2. Settings > Power > Power Mode > Best Performance.
3. ParkControl Pro > Parking AC and DC Disabled.

So, no, I don't believe #3 negatively affects the thread director, let alone "breaks" it, since the thread director simply prioritizes whether/when to use P and/or E cores, regardless if they're parked or not.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

ayukreizi
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Re: How do you disable Core Parking now?

Post by ayukreizi » 22 Aug 2023, 05:09

almost but not quite right.

the relevant setting you want to look at is
Setting ID: 7f2f5cfa-f10c-4823-b5e1-e93ae85f46b5
Heterogeneous policy in effect
Specify what policy to be used on systems with at least two different Processor Power Efficiency Classes.

Image

chapter 4 & 7 for a basic understanding on how to optimize for performance.
https://www.intel.com/content/dam/devel ... d-cpus.pdf

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