Micro stutters in old games vs. overkill PC

[FTW900]

No matter how much stuff game engine does in the background or how terrible code is, any modern CPU definitely is capable of calculating that within 16 ms and even way, way less.

Many older open-world games had a 30 FPS framerate target at the time (including GTA:VC, I believe), so the streaming systems were "tuned" for 33.3ms frametimes, hence the higher the average framerate, the more obvious any spikes are now going to be.

Game is running of SSD.

SSD doesn't help with stutter (just load times) in legacy games since the Windows storage API is limited to HDD transfer rates, unfortunately.

A good testing area that I found is in HL2U (prob. that applies to vanilla HL2 too) in chapter 4 (water hazard) that one can start from the 'new game' menu.
If player proceeds to the red barn down the river he will most likely to encounter stuttering while making 2nd jump before leaving canals. I guess this is the place where all loading/buffering is happening so most likely there will be stutters. Wonder if that large 96/128-something-mb cache might help...

I have a 13900k, but for what it's worth, I ran this test in HL2 (vanilla and update, both with G-SYNC off + V-SYNC off, just to rule anything out) and I got zero stutter on the first two jumps after the red barn both the first and second time running it, if those are the jumps you were talking about.

Yes, old GTA games are better to be played on 30 fps but in general they work fine at 60 with slightly messed up driving physics but nothing major.
My testing shows that I fixed this issue in VC, but in 3 and SA with extended distance mod it still may stutter from time to time. But that could be due to the mod/fact that we push the engine that far, so maybe there's nothing I can do in that particular case but to tweak mod settings.

Actually not always true - I had stutters in KF2 on HDD while SSD was (and still is) a stutter-free experience. But sure in most normal and optimized games this should not be an issue (at least because we had no SSD's back then)

Thanks a lot for the test! Interesting...
Yes, when you start a new chapter and go towards the red barn there is at least 1 stutter in the area in tunnels if speeding through (area from my screenshot).
Forgot to mention that I also use max settings @ 4k and 120 fps lock.
I am encoding things at the moment but will test other settings as well when I'm done. Clearly this is not right and something is wrong. But OC & RAM XMP are 100% stable, no doubt about it. I've been encoding things for months now and had 0 crashes whatsoever.

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[jorimt]

Yes, when you start a new chapter and go towards the red barn there is at least 1 stutter in the area in tunnels if speeding through (area from my screenshot).
Forgot to mention that I also use max settings @ 4k and 120 fps lock.

You asked if I got stutter during the two jumps after the red barn, which I didn't, but I did get momentary stutter after loading into the start of chapter 4 and just walking forward (not even driving) in HL2 Update. It did not happen in HL2 original.

1440p 360Hz, G-SYNC off + V-SYNC off at default 300 FPS, for reference (full specs in sig).

If I tried to troubleshoot every instance of stutter I experienced in every game, I'd never leave my computer I.O. operation stutter is universal, sometimes occurs randomly and/or inexplicably, and is ultimately not 100% avoidable in all instances, regardless of your computer's capabilities; software bottlenecks are eternal.

[FTW900]

Yes, when you start a new chapter and go towards the red barn there is at least 1 stutter in the area in tunnels if speeding through (area from my screenshot).
Forgot to mention that I also use max settings @ 4k and 120 fps lock.

You asked if I got stutter during the two jumps after the red barn, which I didn't, but I did get momentary stutter after loading into the start of chapter 4 and just walking forward (not even driving) in HL2 Update. It did not happen in HL2 original.

1440p 360Hz, G-SYNC off + V-SYNC off at default 300 FPS, for reference (full specs in sig).

If I tried to troubleshoot every instance of stutter I experienced in every game, I'd never leave my computer I.O. operation stutter is universal, sometimes occurs randomly and/or inexplicably, and is ultimately not 100% avoidable in all instances, regardless of your computer's capabilities; software bottlenecks are eternal.

Honestly, I simply do not want to believe it is not fixable and a software issue...after all, I (we) managed to fix it in some previous games somehow
I need to test vanilla HL2 as well to think about it - I haven't tried it on a new PC. And to find some time for a better testing (reset OC/RAM/disable HT/etc) but I highly doubt any of that will help

I completely understand how to some it might look funny (to care about such tiny stutters)
But then again, it feels weird to me and I encounter them in many old titles and something tells me that in most cases it shouldn't be like that. Or at least I would love to do everything I can to reduce their amount close to 0 as mush as possible

If anybody here owns 7800x3d chip and can test my theory out (HL2U chapter 4 stutter test, preferably @ max settings and 4k) it would mean a world to me, really. Maybe that huge cache can bruteforce stable frametime...

[FTW900]

Upd: nope - I simply refuse to believe that this is a software issue.
Vanilla game has more than 4 short stutters and at least 3 mid-long stutters on my way to the first physics puzzle on the level. I didn't had any issues there even 20 years ago and now it stutters like a single core CPU

Resetting BIOS solved nothing

Restarting the chapter (i.e. NOT a cold start) solves any stutter on the map completely (power plan ultimate/high tested, results do not change based on the plan)

[FTW900]

Any ideas, anyone? What can cause this weird issue. Clearly this is not a normal behavior and already confirmed that other people do not have stutters in vanilla game for example

[widow13]

Any ideas, anyone? What can cause this weird issue. Clearly this is not a normal behavior and already confirmed that other people do not have stutters in vanilla game for example

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/c ... _in_games/
You can try this just in case. Personally it helped me even tho I don't have the same nvme as the author.

[FTW900]

Any ideas, anyone? What can cause this weird issue. Clearly this is not a normal behavior and already confirmed that other people do not have stutters in vanilla game for example

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/c ... _in_games/
You can try this just in case. Personally it helped me even tho I don't have the same nvme as the author.

Interesting, thank you a lot!

I will definitely test that out since I also have 2 tb SSD from Crucial, altho I do not use it as of now (my main SSD is Samsung 970 Evo Plus IIRC)

Unfortunately I don't even have micron driver installed...will investigate this situation a bit more, maybe Crucial SSD is what actually causes these issues

Upd: nope, not my case, my SSD model is different

[kokkatc]

Hello everybody!
I am trying to get rid of micro stuttering in old games and cannot find the reason why I experience them in almost every game (even in old ones)
I used to have 4790k (OC) for old games and it was perfectly fine for the most part, but I was unable to achieve perfect 'locked' RTSS frame time like never (but I accepted it due to my PC being 'outdated')
Now that I own 10900k OC to 5Ghz and 3090 Ti & 128 Gb of DDR4 3600 memory I still experience them even in such games like GTA:VC or Half-Life 2 for example
I thought it might be my Sony FW900 that has incredible response times but no-I tried it on OLED and IPS and I still feel them from time to time even tho my PC is clearly an overkill for such old game nothing helps, even 'ultimate performance' plan when my CPU is constantly at 5Ghz like...what the hell? Not to mention I see them on the frametime graph
I also do not have any slideshow, just a static wallpaper
My system is relatively clean, I disabled and removed tons of bloatware, the only thing that starts with the windows is KAV/TinyFirewall and that's about it
I can understand the stuttering during shader compilation/emulation for example but for the love of God I cannot understand why do I keep having them in such old titles!

Please, send help! Life and death situation!

Hey man, I feel your pain. I've spent years upon years optimizing and diagnosing PC perf errors, particularly gaming ones, but it's difficult to help when you provide virtually zero information minus your hardware specs. I'll give you my 2cents based on the info provided.

Before I begin, don't just start randomly trying stuff. You'll drive yourself mad. Systematically test your system and start ruling things out.

For one, you're on new hardware. CPU, motherboard, ram, GPU and clearly a PSU, and likely also an m2 or ssd? You're also running 128GB of DDR4 ram at XMP speeds. For starters, I hear no mention of stress/stability tests on your new hardware. How do you even know your hardware is good? You need to stress test your memory, cpu and GPU and confirm they're working as intended. For memory I like to use TM5 w/ antaextremeconfig, y-cruncher (VST Stress) for at least an hour. Just because you enable XMP, it doesn't mean your memory is stable. If it's not stable, you're going to encounter the issues you're dealing with right now. For your CPU, you can use Prime95 (small ffts), CinebenchR23 (Just to ensure you're getting the appropriate score for your config). If the score is lower than what it's supposed to be, then you have a point to troubleshoot. For your GPU I like to use Unigine Heaven to benchmark GPU perf, and Furmark to ensure my GPU is getting enough power from the GPU. If your GPU is underpowered, you'll lag, stutter, etc. You'll need to run a monitoring app such as HWINFO64 to view your system stats so you know what your system is doing, not doing, etc. For your PSU, you can check the voltage readings (rail and what not) in your monitoring app. Make sure they're at the correct levels. OCCT has a power stress test you use to test power delivery. So do the basics first, confirm every piece of hardware is good since you're experiencing issues, then go from there.

From there, reset your BIOS back to defaults, clear the cmos. Either pull the battery or use the cmos reset pins/switch on your motherboard w/ the power cable unplugged. Jump in a game immediately after to test off default settings.

After you confirm your hardware is good and you're still experiencing issues, here's a good way to begin testing in the OS. 1) Uninstall every piece of software on your system, ALL of it, including the previous apps I suggested you use for stress testing. 2) Ensure all your drivers are up to date and installed (Chipset drivers, nic, gpu (audio is optional), Intel ME (Management Engine). Modern Intel CPUs need Intel ME to function properly unfortunately. Look for any Intel ME firmware updates on your motherboard's website, including Bios updates. Update that as well. Also make sure no RGB software is running anywhere on your system. 3) Go to your power plan settings and reset all plans to default to ensure nothing was changed by a 3rd party app. Then select the High Performance Plan. 4) Use DDU to reinstall your GPU driver. Boot into safemode, uninstall with DDU, boot back into normal mode, install gpu driver. 5) Disable Rebar (In BIOS) and HAGS (In OS) (Hardware accelerated GPU Scheduling). These are known to cause issues with some older games. Get rid of those variables to be sure. 6) Fully disable xbox gamebar. This stupid app constantly bricks game performance, especially in older games. Google on how to do this. 7) Set GPU to high perf in your GPU's control panel 8) Install one game you want to play and test with no other 3rd party software installed. 3rd party software can and does brick game perf in many cases.

As of now, no one has any clue what's installed on your system or how it's configured. Find a baseline and go from there.

Report back if you care to do the above. It's necessary.

[FTW900]

Before I begin, don't just start randomly trying stuff. You'll drive yourself mad. Systematically test your system and start ruling things out.

Thanks for writing!
To put it shortly, I did almost everything of the mentioned above a long, long time ago.
I probably should've telegraph that in a better way, because I saw how few people already assumed my PC is a mess that was OC to unstable values and was not tested hence why the issues
I will clarify:
Everything is brand new, yes
Definitely not overheating (especially not during the winter at -30c and HL2 gameplay that can be run even on potato, makes no sense)
2 SSD in the system, main M2 and secondary which is not used - Crucial 2 Tb. It is not the issue mentioned few posts ago because that SSD was DRAMless version of SSD, mine is MX500 IIRC
I also triple checked BIOS settings. Did complete reset many times. Used OC or NOT, used XMP and did not, tested for MONTHS in may applications compiling and converting stuff - ZERO crashes
I tried prime, I tried extreme config for a whole night, my power plan is either high or ultimate (even more exhausting 100% min CPU state profile), my OS was freshly installed and all telemetry/crapware removed, startup only exists of few items, every single BIOS, driver (yes, even SSD firmware) and mtb, GPU and so on is up-to-date, re-installed with DDU a week or so ago.
The only thing I'm not sure if I installed anything super specific for intel - didn't find any information on that. Just regular fresh chipset mtb drivers.
Rebar/xboxlive/hwgs and other cw was disabled immediately upon first boot after fresh install. SSD is new, so there are no previous files or other junk left

I really tried to fix that and did most of the basics first before finally writing a topic over here because I simply had no other choice left and ran out of options I know and it feels EXTREMELY weird how come top-tier CPU struggles in such lightweight outdated titles when we played them on 2-4 cores at 2-3 ghz perfectly fine

And yes, there should be a better way to diagnose things
I will try to play with HL2 stuttering during 4th chapter with performance monitor open to see if I can spot anything suspicious but I doubt it, probably should use more professional tools for that. I do remember nvidia had some kind of dev kit of sorts to record draw calls and so on, but I am no dev and nor extremely tech savvy

Updated:
Some observations during my HL2 ch. 4 test: 4k/1440p/1080p max/lowest possible settings do not change anything, fps limit via RTSS to 60/120/144/0 barely changes anything, at 60 stutters are barely noticeable and there are fewer of them.
At 30 fps I have only 1 micro stutter at the first jump and even then, not all the time. Otherwise rest of the level perfectly flat line.
Tested on high performance plan, ultimate does not help. Locking minimal GPU clocks to 1500 (overkill for vanilla hl2) solved nothing.
Restarted PC. Rebar also confirmed to be disabled in BIOS. Tested on freesync compatible monitor. Disabling vsync (freesync) did nothing...

Updated 2:
Downloaded Left4Dead2 and I have the same issue here. Cold run stutters everywhere, running back to the start of the level and creating explosions/fire/etc - perfectly flat line no matter the fps lock at barely any GPU/CPU usage.

Come on now, what the actual freak.

[FTW900]

Maybe there is a better place to ask about this issue?

I also managed to find the following, but at the moment that lead me to nowhere. Will investigate a bit later on

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Updated:
I am actually not sure if I can trust this 100% because it could've been loading stutter during the start of the new chapter etc (caching/preloading/compiling etc). There is also a console command sv preload or something like that in source games which should preload level (at least in theory) but that didn't help. Plus I still have similar stutters sometimes in other games/build on a different engine.
Just tried few old drivers - 512/527 from 22 and they didn't work. Forcing high GPU priority via MSI utility also didn't work. On-board audio disabled in bios and in device manager too, I use dedicated USB sound card for audio. Disconnecting it didn't work either...