ISP routers Power saving features effects on desync

[Mims]

Hi guys,

I was testing the other day, different cable lenght with my pc, and noticed that i had less desync (even though now my games are responsive online), than usual. It made me think about power saving features and thought about the arrival of EEE 802.3az around ... 2011.

Which made me think about the first issues about desync online that started to appears around the same time.

A particular protocol is implemented in most of the ISP's routers, EEE (Energy Efficient Ethernet), 802.3az, which basically reduces power consumption in Ethernet networks during periods of low data activity.

I was thinking, depending of the ISP equipment that you have, it might still applies these power saving feature even thought your pc or switch isn't supporting it / activating it, which can result in erratic behavior when under heavy load like gaming online.

So i tested something, took a switch between my pc and my ISP router, activated the EEE between the switch and my router, and desactivated it between my switch and my PC. It resulted in very responsive gameplay, but still erratic.

So i looked more closely to the features of the protocol, and saw that depending on the cable lenght that you have, it can ajust the power going through it, which comes back to what i first said at the beginning of the post. I connected an ethernet cable of 6m instead of the 2m that i was using, and the results online were positively consistent in terms of sync / desync.

For information, i have EEE desactivated on my network card, which in an intel I226v, i had issue before with it for it stability, but now that i applied what i explained, it's been performing really good since then overall. Also, the EEE features is activated on my ISP router, but i can't desactivate it since there is no option to do so (i talk with some network technician of the ISP, that confirmed it), so i think it must be the case with most of the ISP routers out there, and depending on the setup's that people have, they might have this issue more than others depending on how everything is connected together, and how equipments are communcating with each others based on these power saving features and the compatibility. What are your thought on this ?

[triplese]

erratic behavior when under heavy load like gaming online.

Wut? Max 200 pkts/s is heavy load? Its sub-1mb/s speeds, which was heavy load only when you was playing via dialup.

depending on the cable lenght that you have, it can ajust the power going through it

Complete bshit. Ethernet cables not transferring any measurable power (except case of PoE) and categories strictly limiting max length of cable and this limit is 100meters starting from cat3. Difference between categories is their stability so cat3 cable can transfer 10mbit\s on 100meters and cat6 - 1gbit\s.
So you just have shitty cable and replaced it with less shitty cable.

Absence of measurable internet quality standards is the reason of this non-scientific approches "try to change some option and have placebo it worked"

[velorias]

That's an interesting theory. I don't know any details about ISP's machinery, but I had some interesting situation. I don't know there were another factors of this, but...
So, I live in an old 9-level house. When I was using my previous ISP, one evening something happened to their router (or it's powering) and my input lag has gone away. I plugged my phone with 4G and tried playing (I play Apex). It was amazing. After they fixed the issue, everything came back. I've switched ISP later to have PON with optical cable coming to my apartment. But no difference.
So. My theory is: either ISP routers (at least some of them) may interfere the entire house (or it's part - I live on the 3rd floor) through air or electricity wires. OR ISP router had another power line and something else which is connected to that power line is throwing some kind of EMI.
P.S. After that, using the same 4G didn't make effect too.

[Thatweirdinputlag]

Hi guys,

I was testing the other day, different cable lenght with my pc, and noticed that i had less desync (even though now my games are responsive online), than usual. It made me think about power saving features and thought about the arrival of EEE 802.3az around ... 2011.

Which made me think about the first issues about desync online that started to appears around the same time.

A particular protocol is implemented in most of the ISP's routers, EEE (Energy Efficient Ethernet), 802.3az, which basically reduces power consumption in Ethernet networks during periods of low data activity.

I was thinking, depending of the ISP equipment that you have, it might still applies these power saving feature even thought your pc or switch isn't supporting it / activating it, which can result in erratic behavior when under heavy load like gaming online.

So i tested something, took a switch between my pc and my ISP router, activated the EEE between the switch and my router, and desactivated it between my switch and my PC. It resulted in very responsive gameplay, but still erratic.

So i looked more closely to the features of the protocol, and saw that depending on the cable lenght that you have, it can ajust the power going through it, which comes back to what i first said at the beginning of the post. I connected an ethernet cable of 6m instead of the 2m that i was using, and the results online were positively consistent in terms of sync / desync.

For information, i have EEE desactivated on my network card, which in an intel I226v, i had issue before with it for it stability, but now that i applied what i explained, it's been performing really good since then overall. Also, the EEE features is activated on my ISP router, but i can't desactivate it since there is no option to do so (i talk with some network technician of the ISP, that confirmed it), so i think it must be the case with most of the ISP routers out there, and depending on the setup's that people have, they might have this issue more than others depending on how everything is connected together, and how equipments are communcating with each others based on these power saving features and the compatibility. What are your thought on this ?

Not sure if you need to dig deeper into this, but the last 2 ISP's I used, I've asked both before signing the contract to have full admin access over their Modem/Router. Both agreed. Reason why I did that was because I needed access to the configuration files of those routers, from there I can fiddle with all the options that are hidden even with Admin access. Ofc I didn't tell them that, but they wouldn't know unless one of their staff remotely accesses the router and check the logs. Anyways, I disabled power savings on both, I tried different other options that seemed interesting but none of them helped, not even the slightest.

2nd, I currently have 2 ISP's supplying internet to my house, one for the whole house "3rd ISP, not related to the first two", and the other just for my PC. The one for the whole house is connected to the in-wall ethernet ports. The length between my receptacle and the main one feeding the router is about 35-40 meters, as it goes through several other ethernet receptacles. I experience lag, sluggishness, screen choppiness and unsmoothness by using either of those ISPs. I guess this answers the effect of the length of the ethernet cable.

[Unreazz]

As far as I know, you have the option to put your device into DMZ mode from your router by simply entering the IP address. This should turn off every firewall option, including deep packet inspection, as it's also considered a firewall feature.

I tried putting my PC into that DMZ mode, but it didn't make any difference. I've also used routers like Asus, where I turned off the firewall completely, but it didn't result in any noticeable improvements.