CSGO feels like 60hz [Internet Latency Issues]

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lexlazootin
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Joined: 16 Dec 2014, 02:57

Re: CSGO feels like 60hz

Post by lexlazootin » 21 Mar 2018, 13:21

There are none because no one bothered to investigate.
No one on this planet has tested this wide spread phenomena that is effecting all of these CS players since the 2000...
There are none because no one bothered to investigate. Besides, as i said many times you cant really test it
So the problem isn't measurable, but you can see and feel the changes. I've been to a few of those 'spiritual body mind' fairs and this is very similar talk when they try and sell you one of their healing crystals. :lol:
The best way to describe how mouse movement is affected by internet connection is to tell you that it is only happening in fights when you are either near the enemy players or when you are shooting at them / exchanging fire. The feeling you get can be described in these terms:

- non smooth aiming
- laggy feel
- recoil is affected
- tracking enemies is affected
- CSGO feels like 60hz
- feels like more dpi
- non smooth aiming
Do you have one of these twenty vague and nondescript issues? Well it your internet.
It doesn't, but the feeling you get (in addition to what you see on your screen) is similar to FPS drops / stutters (caused on your end), that is why people are confused and they think something is wrong with their system/hardware.
So you're saying that people are jittering through the battlefield and are confusing it with FPS issues...
If it would be just an fps/hz drop (or something hardware related) then it would not have such a negative effect on gaming performance (actuall results in the game) and making people desperate, at least not in the way that people are describing it. Funny how no one complains about this when playing on LAN, but only online... :mrgreen:
If it would be just a massive fps drop / hz drop, then you would be able to get used to it (predictability factor) and play around it
I don't even... There is just so many small things wrong with the whole theory that i just can't.

People are not perfect, sometimes are reactions are quick, and sometimes they are slow, sometimes we win every game, sometimes we can go weeks without doing well. But when we are not doing so well we like to blame others or even our internet connection instead of taking responsibility. it makes us feel better if we have a excuse, it makes it not our fault.

mello
Posts: 251
Joined: 31 Jan 2014, 04:24

Re: CSGO feels like 60hz

Post by mello » 21 Mar 2018, 15:11

You are clearly clueless and ignorant and i should never reply to people like you, but there might be lurkers here and they might actually learn something, so here we go again...
lexlazootin wrote: No one on this planet has tested this wide spread phenomena that is effecting all of these CS players since the 2000...
Even if someone wanted to test it, it would not be easy, read my last 2 posts and you will know why, i have explained it thoroughly. It is not as simple as testing cpu, gpu, ram or monitor/mouse input lag. Besides it doesn't affect everyone, just a certain % of people. And no one said it is happening since 2000, in my case it started happening in ~2004, when more and more people were getting connected to the internet in my city and my area (on the same/old/cables infrastructure).
lexlazootin wrote: So the problem isn't measurable, but you can see and feel the changes. I've been to a few of those 'spiritual body mind' fairs and this is very similar talk when they try and sell you one of their healing crystals.
No, it is not measurable, at least not by the kind of brain like yours apparently. I have also explained why you can't really measure it (at least not by normal measuring standards and practices via score/graph), but you seem to completely ignore the things i explained. You have no control over your connection and what is happening on the other side (outside your home), so you can't isolate it and test it the way you think.

The closest i came to the scientific study ( :roll: ) with the limited resources i had is this:

I was gaming during an important national football match when the whole country was watching the game (in home, in bars, on jumbotrons/jumbovision in big cities)... In this scenario you can safely assume, without shadow of a doubt, that the internet in the whole country could catch a breath and there was no chance that ISP's network was overloaded. And ? My hit registration was almost perfect, and all other problems have disappeard, my reaction time was elite (as it should be) and i probably had the best gaming experience from my home in years. This all happened without my ping changing at all, and with interleaving and error correction enabled (according to my router). I have tested it few more times in the next few months, and it has become clear to me, less network usage in your area/city at any given time = the better gaming experience and hit registration you will have.

It also has been proven many times before... when you have higher packet priority (and/or lower error correction algorithms) in your ISP's network in relation to other people in your area, the problem is either vastly reduced or is becoming a non-issue. Basically as soon as you can avoid network congestion you are fine. This is also why in the past people were chasing after FAST PATH mode and/or SNR manipulation techniques in modems/routers in hopes of changing interleaving depth profile on their connection. There was quite a lot of talk about this in the fps gaming world, but you are probably to young to realize this.

Also, the curse for fps gamers became a DLM that is being used in ADSL/VDSL connections, it increases delays and interleaving depth on the connection. It basically increases delays and stability and this negatively impacts games where UDP packets are time sensite and fast and proper delivery is essential. In the past you could have asked your ISP to reset the DLM and for ~3-7 days you could enjoy perfect hit registration and gaming experience.

If you don't know these things it means that that you are too young and i should really stop wasting my time on you.
lexlazootin wrote: Do you have one of these twenty vague and nondescript issues? Well it your internet.
You can't measure it because it is not software/hardware related. You can't isolate the internet for yourself. People have tried everything for years and still no one has found a solution ? How so ? It is because they were looking at the wrong thing, and completely disregarded another. And everyone experiences everything differently, and is affected by certain things/changes differently. The same reason why for some people think 60fps@60Hz is perfect/good enough, same reason why some people are bothered by stutter, some are bothered by tearing, other are bothered by strobbing... etc. This is why people are explaning this problem in different words, because of their experience and focus on certain things differs.

You also seem to despite the words i am using "you can see it and feel it, but its hard to describe". It is hard to describe because the situation is not constant and it changes all the time, problem randomly appears and disappears. And as far as seeing and feeling:

- you can see and feel the difference going from 60Hz>144Hz>240Hz
- you can see and feel the difference going from 100fps>200fps>400fps>600fps
- you can see and feel the difference when you change the sensitivity of your mouse
- you can see and feel the difference when you change your mouse
- you can see and feel the difference when using G-SYNC vs V-SYNC OFF
- you can see and feel the difference when using V-SYNC @ 60Hz vs V-SYNC @ 480Hz
- you can see and feel the difference between strobing vs non strobing mode
- you can see and feel the you are getting ping spikes or huge packet loss

So why is it that hard for you to understand that the same thing applies to the in-game performance and the problem people are experiencing ? They can only make a comparison to something else, so the third person can get a vague idea how this problems looks and feels like.

You clearly lack experience in this area, and you have never seen and experienced this problem first hand, so in reality you have no business being part of this thread. There are of course more people like you that are providing false and incorrect information to other people, unintentionally of course (when only trying to help).
lexlazootin wrote:So you're saying that people are jittering through the battlefield and are confusing it with FPS issues...
You still think that this problem is somewhat constant, it IS NOT. It appears randomly and goes away randomly.
No one said that they confuse it with FPS issues, i only said that you may compare it to FPS drop like feeling WITHOUT acutall FPS dropping.
lexlazootin wrote:
If it would be just a massive fps drop / hz drop, then you would be able to get used to it (predictability factor) and play around it
I don't even... There is just so many small things wrong with the whole theory that i just can't.
See, you prove my point again and again. I have seen and known many elite players in the early days, and many of them never had good PC's, and yet they were able to perform at the highest level despite having fps issues. Same goes for people in the early days that were going and playing from internet cafes (these were really popular long time ago), people were playing on different PCs and monitors all the time (including different mouses/keyboards) and back then everyone was forced to adapt quickly to the PC specs you were using at any given time. But you can't do anything when you are being bottlenecked by your inet connection, because it is the most important thing when it comes to playing online. Pro player still can play on elite level on ancient pc/monitor while using not his own mouse/keyboard but he will not be able to do that same thing when being skill capped by poorly performing inet connection.

You don't know these things because you are clearly clueless.
lexlazootin wrote: People are not perfect, sometimes are reactions are quick, and sometimes they are slow, sometimes we win every game, sometimes we can go weeks without doing well. But when we are not doing so well we like to blame others or even our internet connection instead of taking responsibility. it makes us feel better if we have a excuse, it makes it not our fault.
And you spit pseudo knowledge once again... :cry:
If you do something long enough for long periods of time you became good at it. Same goes for gaming. You know when something feels perfect and just right, and you can clearly see and feel when you are getting ping spikes/teleports, without a need of checking your ping. Same goes for big packet loss, you can see, feel and even hear it (cause of missing sounds) ! Same goes for cheaters, if you are good and you have great knowledge and understanding of the game you can clearly see and spot cheaters (non obvious ones) without actually watching a player. The point is, no one is blaming anyone or issuing false claims, you can see and feel when your performance suffers because of network congestion and network performance fluctuations. You just cant go from destroying everyone (regardless of their skill) to struggling with avarage/low skilled players, it just never doesn't happen. And especially not when you are getting input lag like problems, delays, laggy feeling (accurate mouse movement / recoil control) etc. And you can actually see and feel certain changes affecting your in-game experience (i gave you a list above) and you can easily spot when there is something wrong happening in your game that should never happen.

You are unable to grasp and understand the problem, because you have never experienced it yourself.

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lexlazootin
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Joined: 16 Dec 2014, 02:57

Re: CSGO feels like 60hz

Post by lexlazootin » 22 Mar 2018, 04:14

So it comes down to

- It's impossible to test for
- We're all to stupid to understand it

:lol:
The closest i came to the scientific study ( :roll: ) with the limited resources i had is this:
You knew this was biased information but you wrote 3 paragraphs about it anyways. and then you write...
If you don't know these things it means that that you are too young and i should really stop wasting my time on you.
and
You clearly lack experience in this area, and you have never seen and experienced this problem first hand, so in reality you have no business being part of this thread.
You're wasting your own time... I currently live in Australia and i have ADSL2+ Interleave extended line, house to house i've pretty much never had good internet. But sure, you can make assumptions about me :lol:
You can't measure it because it is not software/hardware related. You can't isolate the internet for yourself.
2 connections :o
You just cant go from destroying everyone (regardless of their skill) to struggling with avarage/low skilled players, it just never doesn't happen.
PEOPLE ARE PERFECT ALL THE TIME, IF YOU PLAY BAD IT'S YOUR INTERNETS FAULT. :lol: it's almost comical.

Please stop wasting your time and get to your point. You just keep rambling on instead of actually proving anything.

NoRegStutters
Posts: 2
Joined: 30 Oct 2018, 20:12

Re: CSGO feels like 60hz

Post by NoRegStutters » 30 Oct 2018, 20:16

My friend and I have been struggling with this for years. Have you found anything to help?

I've talked to two former CSGO pros who had to quit due to this problem. This toxic guy who doesn't understand I ran into a ton of people like him everyday. People like him make it more frustrating when no one believes this weird problem it just makes it that much harder to solve. Dropping from professional to a tier 3 joke overnight is totally due to "Placebo", washed up, or making excuses. I've already fought with a bunch of former team members/friends over this because they tell me to play through it or say its just an excuse. I hope everyone that doubts this while being extremely toxic gets hit by karma.

Anyone with the problem reading this you're not alone.

mello
Posts: 251
Joined: 31 Jan 2014, 04:24

Re: CSGO feels like 60hz

Post by mello » 31 Oct 2018, 04:38

NoRegStutters wrote:My friend and I have been struggling with this for years.
Probably hundreds of thousands of FPS players are struggling with this problem to various degrees, knowingly or unknowingly.
NoRegStutters wrote: Have you found anything to help?
Search my older posts on this forum, i have described in detail what the problem is and why you can't really fix it and why no one has ever provided the solution. Why ? Because this is caused by internet connection, specifically by a network congestion, which you have no control of. The problem exists outside of your home, it exists directly in your ISP's network. Basically, you are either lucky, semi-lucky or unlucky when it comes to internet connection performance. If you are unlucky, your online gaming will suffer greately. In some countries, depending on your ISP, you can actually make a difference in your online gaming, here are few tips:

Do a research and choose ISP which will give you this:

- business package with packet priority handling in the network and with nrt-VBR
(because packet priority handling is not available for regular customers)
- disabled DLM on your profile that is assigned to your customer account (DSL, ADSL, VDSL connections)
(because DLM interferes with UDP packets that FPS games are using)
- if DLM can't be disabled, at least ability to choose interleaving depth (DSL, ADSL, VDSL connections)
(call your ISP and tell them to set the lowest possible interleaving depth on your profile)

If you are lucky and it can be done in your country, then you will have a real and tangible advantage over everyone that you are playing against (no matter what your monitor or hardware is) or at least you will play on equal terms against players who have perfect internet connections.

But in reality every single case is different, because network performance & network congestion when fps gaming is concerened, will vary between every single player. If you really care you should most likely move to a different part of your city, far away from where you currently live in, and pray that there are no network congestion issues at your new location.
NoRegStutters wrote: I've talked to two former CSGO pros who had to quit due to this problem.
Same with me, i was progressivly being less and less interested and invested in fps gaming (pro level) over the years, because playing online has become so frustrating for me. In my situation, the problem was obvious to notice, over the years, my ISP started offering "better" speeds, and getting more and more clients in my area, without improving or changing the infrastructure. So after few years internet started to become overcrowded in my area which caused network congestion, and fps gaming became basically a terrible experience.
NoRegStutters wrote: This toxic guy who doesn't understand I ran into a ton of people like him everyday. People like him make it more frustrating when no one believes this weird problem it just makes it that much harder to solve.
You mean lexlazootin ? ;) Yeah, he is clueless and ignorant, same as many other people who never experienced this problem first hand, so they think it doesn't exist and its all "an excuse". These kind of people also have literally zero knowledge about networking in general and they think that "ping" is everything and that there are no other variables that may affect gaming performance. I have explained this phenomenon (network congestion in relation to fps games) in a great detail in many of my posts on this forum.
NoRegStutters wrote: I've already fought with a bunch of former team members/friends over this because they tell me to play through it or say its just an excuse.
They are just stupid & ignorant, because they have never experienced this. They also probably don't understand that when it comes to online gaming, internet network performance, is a single most imporant factor, nothing else even comes close to it. It is impossible to play throught it when you are litterally being crippled /skill capped.

NoRegStutters
Posts: 2
Joined: 30 Oct 2018, 20:12

Re: CSGO feels like 60hz

Post by NoRegStutters » 31 Oct 2018, 16:35

Thanks for the reply. I'll try what you suggested in a few days but ISPS here in Canada specifically Toronto area aren't helpful. I've changed my internet from Fast line to Interleave before which made the stutters worse. But I haven't tried everything else. I live in an area where everyone uses IPTV boxes so yea. My friend that has business internet doesn't have any problems. Most people with this problem tend to live in apartments or old houses with DSL/Cable internet.


Have you fixed it for yourself though or your screwed until you move?

GAMEBOY
Posts: 5
Joined: 01 Jan 2019, 03:47

Re: CSGO feels like 60hz

Post by GAMEBOY » 01 Jan 2019, 03:52

:!: :!: :!:
If anybody stumbles across this thread and is having similar issues, be informed that there is now a discord server dedicated to tailoring systems for good mouse input with members from across multiple forums.

Don't bother with people who say placebo or get good, its a matter of experience. Same reason some people buy 240hz monitors and other people stick on 60hz monitors. Neither will make you pro, but one clearly feels better.

MOUSE INPUT DISCORD LINK:
https://discord.gg/JJHyPhj

:!: :!: :!:

edit: changed uppercase to lowercase, apologies
Last edited by GAMEBOY on 01 Jan 2019, 17:13, edited 2 times in total.

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Chief Blur Buster
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 01 Jan 2019, 14:38

GAMEBOY wrote:If anybody stumbles across this thread and is having similar issues, be informed that there is now a discord server thread dedicated to tailoring systems for good mouse input with members across multiple forums.
FTFY. Take it easy on the all-caps, please.

Although you may have registered only to post your Discord invite, I hope you stay around to participate in the Input Lag discussions. Around Blur Busters, we're always investigating additional latency surprises. I keep an open mind to even Internet connection-based latency problems such as erratic ping jitter, though that is often more Battle(non)sense's domain (network latency)

P.S. I've joined that Discord server, since I'm always researching new testing methods.
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Unreazz
Posts: 164
Joined: 30 Dec 2019, 06:45

Re: CSGO feels like 60hz

Post by Unreazz » 30 Dec 2019, 06:59

mello wrote:
31 Oct 2018, 04:38
NoRegStutters wrote:My friend and I have been struggling with this for years.
Probably hundreds of thousands of FPS players are struggling with this problem to various degrees, knowingly or unknowingly.
NoRegStutters wrote: Have you found anything to help?
Search my older posts on this forum, i have described in detail what the problem is and why you can't really fix it and why no one has ever provided the solution. Why ? Because this is caused by internet connection, specifically by a network congestion, which you have no control of. The problem exists outside of your home, it exists directly in your ISP's network. Basically, you are either lucky, semi-lucky or unlucky when it comes to internet connection performance. If you are unlucky, your online gaming will suffer greately. In some countries, depending on your ISP, you can actually make a difference in your online gaming, here are few tips:

Do a research and choose ISP which will give you this:

- business package with packet priority handling in the network and with nrt-VBR
(because packet priority handling is not available for regular customers)
- disabled DLM on your profile that is assigned to your customer account (DSL, ADSL, VDSL connections)
(because DLM interferes with UDP packets that FPS games are using)
- if DLM can't be disabled, at least ability to choose interleaving depth (DSL, ADSL, VDSL connections)
(call your ISP and tell them to set the lowest possible interleaving depth on your profile)

If you are lucky and it can be done in your country, then you will have a real and tangible advantage over everyone that you are playing against (no matter what your monitor or hardware is) or at least you will play on equal terms against players who have perfect internet connections.

But in reality every single case is different, because network performance & network congestion when fps gaming is concerened, will vary between every single player. If you really care you should most likely move to a different part of your city, far away from where you currently live in, and pray that there are no network congestion issues at your new location.
NoRegStutters wrote: I've talked to two former CSGO pros who had to quit due to this problem.
Same with me, i was progressivly being less and less interested and invested in fps gaming (pro level) over the years, because playing online has become so frustrating for me. In my situation, the problem was obvious to notice, over the years, my ISP started offering "better" speeds, and getting more and more clients in my area, without improving or changing the infrastructure. So after few years internet started to become overcrowded in my area which caused network congestion, and fps gaming became basically a terrible experience.
NoRegStutters wrote: This toxic guy who doesn't understand I ran into a ton of people like him everyday. People like him make it more frustrating when no one believes this weird problem it just makes it that much harder to solve.
You mean lexlazootin ? ;) Yeah, he is clueless and ignorant, same as many other people who never experienced this problem first hand, so they think it doesn't exist and its all "an excuse". These kind of people also have literally zero knowledge about networking in general and they think that "ping" is everything and that there are no other variables that may affect gaming performance. I have explained this phenomenon (network congestion in relation to fps games) in a great detail in many of my posts on this forum.
NoRegStutters wrote: I've already fought with a bunch of former team members/friends over this because they tell me to play through it or say its just an excuse.
They are just stupid & ignorant, because they have never experienced this. They also probably don't understand that when it comes to online gaming, internet network performance, is a single most imporant factor, nothing else even comes close to it. It is impossible to play throught it when you are litterally being crippled /skill capped.

Hey im new on this forum and i wanted to tell you that you are 100% right with everything you mentionied here.... i noticed this kinda lack of ingame performance when i traveled to a new place and replaced all of my hardware ... spended a amount of money... this is actually a real "Problem" and not everyone is affected. The only way you can test this is when you take your PC to your friend in a diffrent location and try to play there. All of my issues are gone so i have to move out to a diffrent place and hoping this shit isnt there anymore in my new place. it costs me so much TIME and money to figure out what is it but in the end there is literally nothing what can i doo on my side.... there is kinda an alternate to "bridge" that Problem... you need to find an ISP which can maybe offer LTE 4G or 5G cause this shit is not based on "grounding" otherwise i prefer an T1 provider which is only located on your AREA. i talked to a lots of people on "Twitch" which has almost "good internet" for gaming like all of them has an advantage against most of other players and when i talked to them privatly, they almost told me that they have a "local ISP" soo in that case Guys "good luck"

canx66
Posts: 24
Joined: 22 Jan 2020, 16:01

Re: CSGO feels like 60hz [Internet Latency Issues]

Post by canx66 » 22 Jan 2020, 16:20

I registered now just to say that mello speaks the 1000% truth. Iam f***ng in to this for years and tested everything, I mean EVERYTHING. Pls dont say something about tweaking and drivers and bla bla. All this things, mello is saying are similiar to my problems.

- Mouse lags
- I see enemys just AFTER they kill me, they jump from the corner, after I died
- peeking means 100% death
- hit registration is crappy as hell (just know I playing koovaks for at least 1 hour a day)
- my fps stays the same but it feels like trash
- and all other things that people describing

and guess what? I live in germany (so sorry for my english) and have one of the fastest connection in my area (400mbit down/40up) but that means NOTHING just because my Connection is around a whole street and everyone using it simultaneously. And guess what.. even my upload speed goes half way in the time, when everyone is @ home using the internet (5pm till 11pm).. and another guess what my online gaming experience is FOR SURE (I would put my hand in fire) noticeable better at night. My whole system is snappier, my aim is better, every hit, hits. YOU CANT SAY, that this not a case. YOU CANT say that doesnt affects your performance in games. you can be the best f****ng player in this world, you cant win, if your enemys sees you sooner and has more time to react, when he can use his FULL potential. That has nothing to do with excuses or other things. People like lexlazootin will never get this, because he probably never tried to play a game competitively and get serious in games. A casual gamer would never get this points and things, I talking about. But when you deep dive in a game and play it for hours every day. You will NOTICE this problems, if you have a internet issue.

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