CSGO feels like 60hz [Internet Latency Issues]

Everything about latency. Tips, testing methods, mouse lag, display lag, game engine lag, network lag, whole input lag chain, VSYNC OFF vs VSYNC ON, and more! Input Lag Articles on Blur Busters.
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dervu
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz [Internet Latency Issues]

Post by dervu » 23 Sep 2020, 09:55

Yes, it was on that forum you mentioned, it was only on vk where I found that forum link from.
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heavywe
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz [Internet Latency Issues]

Post by heavywe » 23 Sep 2020, 21:46

https://blogs.20minutos.es/becario/2020 ... isma-hora/

Translate it to english

It is about an old man, contaminating the signals of his neighbors with his old television.

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Yagami
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz [Internet Latency Issues]

Post by Yagami » 29 Sep 2020, 14:10

A few days ago I finally managed to replace the ISP's router with a brand-new one and unfortunately nothing has changed regarding my problem.

I confess that I was deciding to give up on discovering what was really happening with my connection, until I decided to use my cell phone's mobile network on my computer via Wi-Fi and play Battlefield 4 for a few hours. And believe me if you want...

I had no more insta-deaths;

I stopped dying by throwing grenades at my enemies (For some reason, sometimes the grenades were coming back at me invisibly and killing me for no apparent reason.);

Hit reg improved as most of the time I was able to kill 2~3 enemies without much difficult;

The feeling of having a BIG delay in the game disappeared, as my reaction "got better" (I mean, my reaction has always been the same... I only changed the connection.);

My character stopped sticking against the walls, ground or against soldiers of my own team;

I was able to Spot my enemy soldiers again, because on my 1gbps connection I could not when I was pressing the "Q" key on my keyboard (Maybe the game is displaying incorrect positions, I'm not sure.);

The game became more smooth, but not to the point of being perfect as it used to be for 300-500 fps.

Anyway, I'm not saying it improved to the point of being perfect, but I confess that playing on the mobile network with 70-80ms ping with 22mbps download and 2mbps upload (with some packet losses) it seems WAY better than playing on my 1gbps wired connection with 0% packet loss and 36-40ms ping.

If you have the same problem as me in online games, I recommend doing the same procedure that I did.

I'm not planning on changing my ISP yet, but I just don't know what to explain to customer support what is going on, since apparently they only know how to test the internet speed - and this I have no reason to complain about.

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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz [Internet Latency Issues]

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 29 Sep 2020, 23:32

Yagami wrote:
29 Sep 2020, 14:10
I'm not planning on changing my ISP yet, but I just don't know what to explain to customer support what is going on, since apparently they only know how to test the internet speed - and this I have no reason to complain about.
1. Does trying a gaming VPN help your gigabit connection? It may bypass some ISP's "weird network management" algorithms.

2. Some algorithms in games may penalize an ultrafast connection when everyone else is more lagged than your connection. Consequently, I wonder if it is worth doing a test to add intentional latency to make sure your FTTH remains 30ms two-way latency (15ms in, 15ms out). Here's a post about intentionally adding artifical network latency to avoid being handicapped with anti-LPB algorithms.
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diakou
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz [Internet Latency Issues]

Post by diakou » 30 Sep 2020, 11:15

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
29 Sep 2020, 23:32
Yagami wrote:
29 Sep 2020, 14:10
I'm not planning on changing my ISP yet, but I just don't know what to explain to customer support what is going on, since apparently they only know how to test the internet speed - and this I have no reason to complain about.
1. Does trying a gaming VPN help your gigabit connection? It may bypass some ISP's "weird network management" algorithms.

2. Some algorithms in games may penalize an ultrafast connection when everyone else is more lagged than your connection. Consequently, I wonder if it is worth doing a test to add intentional latency to make sure your FTTH remains 30ms two-way latency (15ms in, 15ms out). Here's a post about intentionally adding artifical network latency to avoid being handicapped with anti-LPB algorithms.
Regarding Yagami, if Haste is supported in your country/region and in the game of your choice, I'd recommend that over anything else. The free version offers one optimized path, while paid version is 4 paths (so it's constantly swapping your paths depending on which one is performing the best or if one of them goes bad mid-match effortlessly, it's as simple as it sounds) (disclaimer; I am not affiliated with them however I have contacts with staff there along with being a user / done research on this topic extensively for over 4 years)

Haste's methods are slightly different from other "gaming based" "VPN technologies" also to chief; I'd recommend to stop saying gaming VPNs because a lot of people have been getting traditional VPNs often that advertise "low lag" or even outright gaming! But these are universally almost always worse solutions if you're aiming at competitive latency. They only will ever help in the extreme cases where your ping / packetloss / routes are so tremendously bad that any decent (or good) VPN from a different location will connect you better.

Just an example(there's way more variables than this!): If you're 20-60ping with close to no packetloss (but poor routing) VPNs, even if they fix your routing, since they aren't designed to be minimally intrusive for the purpose of competitive low latency gaming, can worsen your connection even if improving routing through the other variables. I do understand why you are calling it a blanket term however, as to not specifically mention what. Just feel like it's a thought you should have, since I've seen people in these forums and others be mislead often due to the gaming vpn wording.

On the other end, if haste is not available in your region or your game, I can also encourage you to possibly try exitlag (even if I have a hard time endorsing them, out of every other internet optimization software out there or "gaming vpn" they have shown to have the best results, sometimes rivaling haste or possibly performing better, it depends. I'm just not a fan of their methods) Exitlag should also have a trial version available if I remember correctly.

Please avoid other programs like WTFAST and the like, a lot of them have very inferior methods, sometimes more expensive and are not equally optimal to the methods provided by Haste / Exitlag.

If traditional VPNs are 60hz, WTFFAST and the likes were 120hz solutions, while Exitlag is a "1st gen" 240hz monitor and Haste is "2nd gen" however... As I mentioned, there are cases where Exitlag will perform and can perform better.

mello
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz [Internet Latency Issues]

Post by mello » 30 Sep 2020, 15:15

Yagami wrote:
29 Sep 2020, 14:10
A few days ago I finally managed to replace the ISP's router with a brand-new one and unfortunately nothing has changed regarding my problem.

I confess that I was deciding to give up on discovering what was really happening with my connection, until I decided to use my cell phone's mobile network on my computer via Wi-Fi and play Battlefield 4 for a few hours. And believe me if you want...

I had no more insta-deaths;

I stopped dying by throwing grenades at my enemies (For some reason, sometimes the grenades were coming back at me invisibly and killing me for no apparent reason.);

Hit reg improved as most of the time I was able to kill 2~3 enemies without much difficult;

The feeling of having a BIG delay in the game disappeared, as my reaction "got better" (I mean, my reaction has always been the same... I only changed the connection.);

My character stopped sticking against the walls, ground or against soldiers of my own team;

I was able to Spot my enemy soldiers again, because on my 1gbps connection I could not when I was pressing the "Q" key on my keyboard (Maybe the game is displaying incorrect positions, I'm not sure.);

The game became more smooth, but not to the point of being perfect as it used to be for 300-500 fps.

Anyway, I'm not saying it improved to the point of being perfect, but I confess that playing on the mobile network with 70-80ms ping with 22mbps download and 2mbps upload (with some packet losses) it seems WAY better than playing on my 1gbps wired connection with 0% packet loss and 36-40ms ping.

If you have the same problem as me in online games, I recommend doing the same procedure that I did.

I'm not planning on changing my ISP yet, but I just don't know what to explain to customer support what is going on, since apparently they only know how to test the internet speed - and this I have no reason to complain about.
I'm currently in a long & slow process of tackling this whole thing down and i'm putting a lot of money into it and testing many different things, including internet (which has been a known culprit for nearly 20 years) and even possible issues with electricity. But to the point. I can confirm what you said 100%. All the problems with online FPS gaming almost completely disappear when using broadband cellular networks (4G / LTE) from your smartphone, which you can share to your PC via USB tethering. This shit got me bloody mad recently when i actually discovered that... In my case, a mobile 4G / LTE connection from two different ISP's fixes all the issues i'm having on wired 1Gb/1Gb fiber connection (and all previous wired & wireless connections that i had in the past). What is even funnier, but i have known that for a long time, is that the ping is completely irrelevant & unrelated to the issues people are having. Here is how a ping looks like in my case:

1) 10-15ms, 1Gb/1Gb fiber connection (ISP 1)
2) 30-50ms, 4G / LTE mobile connection (ISP 2)
3) 40-60ms, 4G / LTE mobile connection (ISP 3)

But here is a catch. These 4G / LTE are shitty & have some problems on their own. I'm talking mainly about ping fluctuations, jitter and lags / packet loss that tend to happen sometimes... which is basically what was happening with the first iterations of ADSL / DSL connections back in the day. On the best day / on its best behaviour, both these 4G / LTE mobile connections (ISP 2 & ISP 3) outperform the best case scenario on my 1Gb/1Gb fiber connection (ISP 1). The things i can finally do in online FPS gaming is worth the ping penalty, at least when there are no serious lags on 4G / LTE. The ping difference is obvious and easily noticable, but as long as you are shooting first and hits are being properly registered and model positioning / visilibity is correct...then this is the only thing that matters. I wanted to test 5G too but i'm currently out of range... But if my suspicion is correct, this might actually be a near perfect solution with pings around 10-20ms that should be possible on 5G after proper implementation. 6G will offer near instantaneous transfers at ~1ms, so it should be a next best thing but it is still 10-12 years away.

My current recommendation. Try EVERY single one ISP that is available at your location, including ISPs offering broadband cellular networks. Getting a dedicated line / business package with packet prioritization should still fix these issues for most people though. Also, people should stop focusing on a mere "speed" of the connection, as it is completely irrelevant to the actual online gaming experience & performance. 20 years ago connections were slow and these issues were literally non existent back then.

Oh, and as for the latest controversy / "electricty" side of things... If the problem appears only in your online gaming and nowhere else, then this has nothing to do with electricity in your home, i can guarantee it. This problem definitely happens because of network congestion issues, as was suspected & stated by many people back in the day (nearly 20 years ago). I have already tried an on-line UPS with double conversion with AVR, powerful enough so i can game on a battery for 2.5 hours. No difference whatsoever. And also no difference in video/audio, benchmarks or even overclocking capabilities. If "dirty electricity" or something related to electrical interference would indeed be a problem, one should expect to see that being reflected in benchmarks & overclocking too. Again, no difference, none, zero. So far, pursuing electricity as a possible culprit has been a massive waste of time & money for me.

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nuggify
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz [Internet Latency Issues]

Post by nuggify » 30 Sep 2020, 17:16

mello wrote:
30 Sep 2020, 15:15


Oh, and as for the latest controversy / "electricty" side of things... If the problem appears only in your online gaming and nowhere else, then this has nothing to do with electricity in your home, i can guarantee it. This problem definitely happens because of network congestion issues, as was suspected & stated by many people back in the day (nearly 20 years ago). I have already tried an on-line UPS with double conversion with AVR, powerful enough so i can game on a battery for 2.5 hours. No difference whatsoever. And also no difference in video/audio, benchmarks or even overclocking capabilities. If "dirty electricity" or something related to electrical interference would indeed be a problem, one should expect to see that being reflected in benchmarks & overclocking too. Again, no difference, none, zero. So far, pursuing electricity as a possible culprit has been a massive waste of time & money for me.
Obviously. But for many of us this is system wide and you do not need to be connected to the internet at all to notice the problems. Clearly you do not have issues with power. Still part of me wonders, about those with this problem that is seemingly via ISP side only- I am curious if it is a similar high frequency interference causing high jitter or issues network wise. Either way at this moment in time we do not have clear cut evidence of what is causing it. In your cases no one has been able to point at any metric that displays an issue. So like the clearly electrical in nature issues that many experience I wonder if they are more similar than we might think.

wadge
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz [Internet Latency Issues]

Post by wadge » 17 Nov 2020, 11:41

Hello there !

I've been reading a lots of topics the past few years because i'm also concerned by weird hit registration issues.

Since 8 years roughly i started to noticed this issues and since then i did everything i could trying to fix that.
Like a lot of people here, i did change my hardware multiple times, same as ISP's, router's (Netduma, OpenWrt on lynksis) and so on.
I did buy an UPS (not a double conversion one) and a Furman but this didnt help either.
Of course i did all the possible tweaks i found over the internet but still bad hit registration in every game i played in the past, from CSGO, PUBG, Apex, Battlefield and recently COD Warzone.

But there is only one moment were the gameplay is fine, it is during the first game of the day. Don't ask me why but it has always been like that. I'm still struggling to find the reason.

I don't know if its related to electricity (sine wave ?) or is it all the isp i tried that throttle the connection ?

All i know is that the first game of the day is smooth, good hit reg and the second game start to be crap even if i restart the computer...

Does that mean the hardware discharge from "bad electricity" ? at that point i don't know what to look for.

I hope we all can find a fix for that, thanks for your help

PLUSPUNKT
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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz [Internet Latency Issues]

Post by PLUSPUNKT » 10 Jan 2021, 14:27

Maybe it has something to do with temperatures?

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Re: CSGO feels like 60hz [Internet Latency Issues]

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 10 Jan 2021, 14:29

PLUSPUNKT wrote:
10 Jan 2021, 14:27
Maybe it has something to do with temperatures?
If this is an Intel GPU, you can check by downloading Intel Extreme Tuning Utility -- it will monitor for thermal throttling. Start your game, then exit, and check if your "Max" value of those throttle settings is "Yes". If so, your CPU thermally throttled during the game, and you should improve cooling or back down your overclock a bit.

There are other utilities too which will monitor in the background (no overlays) which can then tell you whether or not thermal throttling occured from insufficient cooling, etc.

However, this is just but one sand grain in a desert, or one drop of water in an ocean -- there can be millions of causes of latency, some easy to troubleshoot and some hard to troubleshoot.
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