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What the heck is this weird stutter

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Re: What the heck is this weird stutter

Postby lexlazootin » 10 Oct 2017, 21:17

That little bit of de-colorized ghosting can be fixed by messing around with the overdrive settings on your monitors OSD, if that's not it then we can't see the problem which makes it hard for us to fix.
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Re: What the heck is this weird stutter

Postby mello » 11 Oct 2017, 04:43

lexlazootin wrote:That little bit of de-colorized ghosting can be fixed by messing around with the overdrive settings on your monitors OSD, if that's not it then we can't see the problem which makes it hard for us to fix.

He said that problem persists even with different hardware, different monitors, mouses etc. And this has been going for years, presumably from the start since he started playing the game. So either the problem doesn't exist (ie nothing that can be fixed and this is how the game is running) or its his game tweaked cfg causing the problems or internet connection. Seeing what he wrote, i decided to take a different approach to diagnose the "problem" but he completely ignored what i said. My key questions for him were:

1) did you have seen, at any point in time, a stutter free gaming experience in this game ? (what other ppl say doesn't count)
2) do you have stutter in other FPS games ? have you tested it ? if you don't have any other FPS games, have u considered buying one to test it ?
3) are you sure that your game cfg settings (including graphic settings) are not the problem here ? Take your cfg and test it on different PC, either in your friends house or go to internet cafe to check it out.

What causing this stutter/ghosting is really irrelevant if it can't be fixed and this is how the game is running.
Another important part:

chriswww wrote:...however there are people out there (much less IT literate than me) who have no such problems and can play much better as a result. Having been in computers since 80s, I'm sure they're not experiencing it and I am.

This is also important, because it comes down to the assumption that other people out there don't have this stutter problem, and are able to play better as a result. In reality this is completely untrue. When playing via internet, apart from players skill, network performence is the most important thing when it comes to FPS gaming, it is so important that everything else becomes really irrelevant. And by everything else i mean, monior, 60fps@60Hz, low end pc (low fps), stutter, motion blur. All of it doesn't really matter if player has skill and great network performence (low ping and perfect or near perfect hit reg). Example:

1) high skilled player will be play at the same level, even with 60fps@60hz, low end pc (low fps), as long as he has low ping and great hit reg. Your eyes can adjust to 60fps@60Hz (even when you change from 144fps@144Hz), and you can get used to motion blur and stutter, in the end it will not affect your performence to a significant degree as long as you have low ping and good hit reg.

2) high skilled player will not be able to play at the same level, when he has really bad network performence (bad hit registration) even if he has best hardware in the world. Bad network performence can skill cap you so bad, that you go from being elite/high skilled to average skilled (gaming via internet). Bad network performence may render gaming unplayable, regardless of what your hardware is.

Hardware only matters at the highest level where every ms matters, and if something may improve your performance even by a tiny fraction it might be worth to justify an upgrade. For FPS gaming via internet, network performence is the only thing that really matters, regardless of what your hardware is and how it performs.


So in the end, at least as long as we are talking about online FPS gaming performance, hardware is very overrated (and has always been), and network performance (and its fluctuations during the day) is vastly underestimated, sometimes even completely ignored. Better hardware or gaming equipment naturally has its place, and the benefits are for example: improved feeling of comfort, less distractions, reduced fatigue, reduced eye strain, so gaming is more smooth (G-SYNC = butter smooth), more enjoyable and feels better and more natural. But it doesn't mean that all of it will automatically improve your in-game performance, if anything the improvement will not be significant, and if you are bottlenecked by your internet connection (bad hit reg) there might be no improvement at all.
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Re: What the heck is this weird stutter

Postby chriswww » 16 Oct 2017, 00:23

Unless there's some network jitter causing it, I would swear that players that are consistently good often have lesser connections and yet inconceivably they (apparently) kill me first when the shootout appears different from my point of view, e.g. I thought they were toast. But in any case, network issues or not, the client "should" provide a more or less fair play. In any case it's difficult to keep a lookout for enemies running through the map with the textures tearing so badly whenever you look around. It's even worse visibility when you're getting shot. So as much as I rely on headphones for enemy positioning, you'd think that the problem could be resolved one day. I've scoured many forums and found same problem descriptions (especially id tech engine but not exclusively so) for people that didnt have the problem before. So it is a real thing and not everybody experiences it. Rather than just give up, I thought the enthusiasts of this site would be much better at devising a surefire way of determining the problem, rather than just wanting to make me go away about it.

I've used opengl2 cl_renderer in et_legacy (as the 3.x opengl context allows tracing) in Renderdoc. I've recorded it on slo-mo mode on the iphone and will have a look at it in detail on the pc. Renderdoc is merely providing individual frame numbering, although that looks a little off. Interestingly, it's only the ET world that has the graphical artefacts and the frame numbering and stats from Renderdoc are immune. A long thought possibility is the gpu running too far ahead and causing regular burps because id tech 3 uses some ancient opengl primitive stuff, even with opengl2 renderer. But anyway, I don't know enough about opengl programming to speak more authoritatively about it. I've been able to singularly take away opengl extensions but can't inject anything deep enough (into running binary executable) to play around with the buffer swaps that are implicated in this retarded render.
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Re: What the heck is this weird stutter

Postby lexlazootin » 16 Oct 2017, 05:44

I just installed ET and there is nothing wrong with the mouse movement, it's 100% smooth with no issues on my G-Sync display. If you're getting stuttering, it's because you're running 125fps on a 120hz display. It makes sense for there to be stutter.

If you're getting ghosting, then it's because your monitor's limited overdrive configuration.

I think main thing is that you think that 125fps on a 120hz display should have no stutters, which is just wrong and can only be avoided with V-Sync and or Free-Sync/G-Sync display if you wish to have no added latency.
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