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What the heck is this weird stutter

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Re: What the heck is this weird stutter

Postby chriswww » 08 Oct 2017, 19:05

I've played with HPET and played with hundreds of other things over the years. I would really like to be able to (once and for all) diagnose the problem correctly, instead of clutching at fixes. It's a problem that has been my bane for several computers, better and better GPUs, sound cards, network cards, versions of Windows and Linux and hundreds of attempts optimizing BIOS, IRQs, latency, drivers, etc etc. There should be some way to establish what the problem is, before proceeding to fixes. Are frames being dropped or what is going on?
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Re: What the heck is this weird stutter

Postby mello » 09 Oct 2017, 05:33

Few things that might help you:

- going from i5 to i7 can fix stutter in some cases, and especially when apart from gaming, the person have other programs/services running in the background
- are you sure that your game cfg settings (including graphic settings) are not the problem here ? some ultra low graphic settings, drastic changes via cfg altering image quality might be the problem here. Take your cfg and test it on different PC, either in your friends house or go to internet cafe to check it out. Also run a game with default graphic settings and with high graphic settings (keep only your mouse/keyboard binds) and see if it changes anything.
- did you, at any point in time, have stutter free gaming experience ? did you see one somewhere else ? (your friends PC, internet cafe)
- some games does not perform well at higher fps, can you lock framerate to 60fps, 85fps, and then to 100fps and see if it changes anything ?
- disable sound card and play the game, and see if it changes anything
- what is your mouse polling rate and dpi ? instead of increasing it, try changing it to lowest possible (125Hz and 200 DPI) while adjusting sensitivity in game to match what feels best, and then test it
- have you changed game process (*.exe) priority ? try using "Above Normal" setting or if you are already running it at this, revert it back to "Normal" and see it it changes anything
- have you tried fresh Windows installation & fresh game installation without any performance fixes and improvements (both for Windows and the game) ?
- other obvious changes, use power plan "High Performance" when gaming, use Process Explorer to close all unwanted programs (including firewall, antivirus) and see it it changes anything
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Re: What the heck is this weird stutter

Postby lexlazootin » 09 Oct 2017, 09:28

Uncap your fps, it will remove the stutter.
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Re: What the heck is this weird stutter

Postby chriswww » 10 Oct 2017, 03:39

mello wrote:Few things that might help you:

- going from i5 to i7 can fix stutter in some cases, and especially when apart from gaming, the person have other programs/services running in the background
- are you sure that your game cfg settings (including graphic settings) are not the problem here ? some ultra low graphic settings, drastic changes via cfg altering image quality might be the problem here. Take your cfg and test it on different PC, either in your friends house or go to internet cafe to check it out. Also run a game with default graphic settings and with high graphic settings (keep only your mouse/keyboard binds) and see if it changes anything.
- did you, at any point in time, have stutter free gaming experience ? did you see one somewhere else ? (your friends PC, internet cafe)
- some games does not perform well at higher fps, can you lock framerate to 60fps, 85fps, and then to 100fps and see if it changes anything ?
- disable sound card and play the game, and see if it changes anything
- what is your mouse polling rate and dpi ? instead of increasing it, try changing it to lowest possible (125Hz and 200 DPI) while adjusting sensitivity in game to match what feels best, and then test it
- have you changed game process (*.exe) priority ? try using "Above Normal" setting or if you are already running it at this, revert it back to "Normal" and see it it changes anything
- have you tried fresh Windows installation & fresh game installation without any performance fixes and improvements (both for Windows and the game) ?
- other obvious changes, use power plan "High Performance" when gaming, use Process Explorer to close all unwanted programs (including firewall, antivirus) and see it it changes anything


I did mention several times already that clutching at straws for immediate fix isn't going to do it. I'm no expert on id tech 3 code however, i've been thru several machines and operating systems and a thousand other bits, being an IT guy myself. So in the best interests of finally being able to figure this never solved problem that some people mysteriously don't have, I'd just like to diagnose it correctly for once. These suggestions have already been tried among many others. It's not a performance issue for this game from 2003. Might be related to timers though...how do I test something objectively to find true culprit?
chriswww
 
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Re: What the heck is this weird stutter

Postby chriswww » 10 Oct 2017, 03:45

lexlazootin wrote:Uncap your fps, it will remove the stutter.


Uncapping fps in vanilla ET (com_maxfps 0) causes network issues, as the client can not get enough frames over internet, no matter what speed network. It also then fluctuates wildly between busy/non-busy map areas and so is even worse. On ET Legacy they've capped it to 333 max. This is a little smoother but doesn't really fix the problem. Also hit registration is bad quite bad on 333 and occasionally lags out due to not enough info from server in time.

Please stop suggesting fixes and instead suggest a good method to diagnose the problem. In fact all I need (and many similar problems for others will benefit) from being able to diagnose correctly, rather than a million fix suggestions.
chriswww
 
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Re: What the heck is this weird stutter

Postby lexlazootin » 10 Oct 2017, 04:16

Wait, could it be a lack of raw input? Half-life does the a thing were it will random drop mouse input unless you inject r-input into it.
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Re: What the heck is this weird stutter

Postby chriswww » 10 Oct 2017, 08:45

lexlazootin wrote:Wait, could it be a lack of raw input? Half-life does the a thing were it will random drop mouse input unless you inject r-input into it.


My post will become very long by the time I confirm suggestions i’ve Already tried and will inevitably derail into a give up situation. Vanilla ET doesn’t change with rinput dll, even though the dll loads fine into memory. ET Legacy with in_mouse 3 (raw) is heaps better responsiveness but the visual problem persists.

If anyone has suggestions on how to diagnose the problem?
chriswww
 
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Re: What the heck is this weird stutter

Postby lexlazootin » 10 Oct 2017, 12:08

chriswww wrote:If anyone has suggestions on how to diagnose the problem?


Go to a PC doctor.

Can you maybe explain the problem a little more? i'm looking at the V-Sync video and everything looks fine, i see a little ghosting but that's about it.
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Re: What the heck is this weird stutter

Postby mello » 10 Oct 2017, 14:07

chriswww wrote:
I did mention several times already that clutching at straws for immediate fix isn't going to do it. I'm no expert on id tech 3 code however, i've been thru several machines and operating systems and a thousand other bits, being an IT guy myself. So in the best interests of finally being able to figure this never solved problem that some people mysteriously don't have, I'd just like to diagnose it correctly for once. These suggestions have already been tried among many others. It's not a performance issue for this game from 2003. Might be related to timers though...how do I test something objectively to find true culprit?


Not sure why but you have completely ignored some things that i have mentioned in my suggestions.
This leads me to believe that, actually, there might not be a problem at all with how the game is running.

This is easy to diagnose, so please answer these questions:

1) did you you have seen, at any point in time, a stutter free gaming experience in this game ? (what other ppl say doesn't count)
2) do you have stutter in other FPS games ? have you tested it ? if you don't have any other FPS games, have u considered buying one to test it ?

If you have never actually seen a stutter free experience in this game, there might be nothing to fix, and this is how this game should be running, especially if you don't have stutter in other FPS games. But if it is possible to play this game stutter free (whatever that means, that thing that bugs you) then the problem might be:

- your custom cfg in this game
- internet connection

Yes, i know that you have mentioned this "Playing on own started local server without anyone is just as bad." BUT in other thread you also said that you have missing sounds occasionally... which is either cfg related (too many tweaks) or network related (packet loss and a quite a big one too). Networking problems will also affect game responsiveness and perceived smoothness, too much packet loss might cause stutter (not to be confused with ping spikes which will cause freezing/teleports).
mello
 
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Re: What the heck is this weird stutter

Postby chriswww » 10 Oct 2017, 14:40

Nothing wrong with the pc and it’s not the first pc exhibiting the problem.

The YouTube quality is bad. With vsync on, what you describe as ghosting, should not happen on 120hz with 125 FPS. This superposition of some frames during movement only becomes an ugly jittery slideshow when FPS is 90 or 144.

I think the easiest way to start diagnosing it would entail numbering every frame and take it from there, but i’m Not sure how to do this without modifying source code, which i’d Hate to have to do..setting up the build environment to compile properly and the result can only be used with ET Legacy. Numbering frames, instead of deceptive fps averages, would be insightful for a lot more than ET.

Is there a way to inject frame numbers via drivers etc into executables?
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