You guys are my last hope for fixing my problem

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Glide
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Re: You guys are my last hope for fixing my problem

Post by Glide » 04 Nov 2017, 01:20

I know that CS:GO players are superstitious, but for a moment I had to check that I had not stumbled onto some audiophile website.
I'm surprised at the responses from many of the regulars here.
Almost all of the changes you've listed are placebos that don't have any impact on the issues you describe.

Your videos show that V-Sync is disabled. That "waving" that you're talking about is screen tearing.
You need to have V-Sync enabled, or a G-Sync display to eliminate that. Here is a guide for low-lag V-Sync.
No matter how high the framerate or refresh rate gets, without syncing frames to the display the image will warp:
Image

If you want to eliminate motion blur you need a CRT, or an LCD with LightBoost/ULMB or similar tech.
High refresh rates improve motion blur, but only marginally compared to a CRT, or an LCD with blur reduction technology.
Blur reduction technology is currently incompatible with G-Sync (at least without an unsupported hack) so you will have to use the low-latency V-Sync guide I linked to above.

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lexlazootin
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Re: You guys are my last hope for fixing my problem

Post by lexlazootin » 04 Nov 2017, 02:31

Wow, good timing on those photos, it's almost perfectly matched.

Glide
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Re: You guys are my last hope for fixing my problem

Post by Glide » 04 Nov 2017, 04:46

lexlazootin wrote:Wow, good timing on those photos, it's almost perfectly matched.
I got lucky with those. I think I took one or maybe two sets of photos for G-Sync on/off and they matched very closely. I was expecting to spend a lot more time to get shots that lined up.

mello
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Re: You guys are my last hope for fixing my problem

Post by mello » 04 Nov 2017, 06:01

I have good news and bad news for you. Good news is that i know what the problem is, bad news is that you won't be able to fix it.

erobuR wrote: Even though I game via 144hz monitor, it not just feels like 30hz but also everything is lagging so much.

Let's say in CS:GO :
1- I don't have legit sprays. My spray patterns are always too off from the usual ones that should be. Two bullets can be really off because there are micromicrostutters happening. And even though the mouse and table is standing still, it can spray as if i have Parkinson's disease.
2- Peaking is a no no. As the textures are waving it is impossible to see someone and play competitively.
3- Using WASD feels like I'm using a truck. When I watch my replays i act and move like as if my grandma started gaming and she is trying to figure out WASD movement.
4- I cannot see people peaking onto me. I just die the moment i see them with 100mbits VDSL 17mod internet. My competitive ping is around 60ms. Domestic servers in my country feel better by far.

When this issue began
Since 2010. Some days or even hours it is better. Some days it is the worst. It DOES really change a lot.

It gets better for some hours, for some hours not, then again better.
I have 100mbit VDSL connection.

This is something which adds up. You cannot just say "oh it is gone!'' because it comes back like in serial Stranger Things.
All of that clearly points out to internet connection problems. This is mostly known and referred to as having "bad registration" problems, but this also affects many different areas of how the game feels like, basically whole online gaming experience is affected. It is caused by network performence fluctuations, this is why it is not a constant problem (randomly goes away, comes back or is less or more severe), and it is not related to hardware, your system or its settings in any way.

Why the game feels inconsistent, random or sometimes even unplayable ? It is because of 2 things:

1) interleaving (and its depth) and error correction parameters on your line
2) your ISPs network and lines being overloaded

Interleaving and error correction:
Please log into your router and search for network parameters that are reported by your router, interleaver depth, delay (ms), IMP, and all kind of reported errors (both correctable and uncorrectable, this will be a number). Post them here. If your router doesn't show that via admin panel, try to connect to your router via TELNET and get that information. Alternatively, call your ISPs customer service, so they can check that and provide you with this information.

Once you get that information we might do few things from there that *might* improve things for you.

How network overload affects gaming performence and hit registration ?
Simple. Your ISP's network work in a such a way that everything is automatic. Devices and software are constantly monitoring your line parameters and are making changes on the fly to make the connection reliable and stable. The term "gaming traffic", there is no such thing for your ISP and for the devices in the network and the software that is running all of it. It is completely ignored and disregarded, what matter is the whole network stability and reliability. Most people experience "hit registration" problems to a different degrees. Problem also randomly goes away and shows up again. It is because of network performance fluctuations, based on the network usage, meaning how many people are using internet in your area/city at the time you play the game. And your ISP's devices and software is monitoring your line at all times, and it changes various parameters based on what is reported, if you have more errors and more packet loss it increases error correction , interleaving and delays on the line, if the network usage is light, meaning no errors (or small amount of errors) it will remove limitations and decrese interleaving. This is why people randomly experience "good hit registration" (no problems at all) and "bad hit registration". I even suspect that overall high network load and overloaded lines play a big role in "hit registration" problem, even if you take out interleaving (!) out of the equation. Why ? Because if there was only 1 person using internet in your area/city (you) then you would have perfect gaming experience and hit registration regardless of the network parameters that are being applied on your line at that time. How that would be possible ? Because there would be zero interferences on the line (cables), and it would perform to the fullest of its capabilities with no errors, and the only limiting factor would be a ping time.
erobuR wrote: When this issue began
Since 2010. Some days or even hours it is better. Some days it is the worst. It DOES really change a lot.
This is because each year more and more people are being connected to the internet, more people are using internet in general (including kids, older people), on variety of devices, and the overall network usage is higher each and every year. And this eventually creates problems for gamers, problems like you described, this is commonly known as having a "bad hit registration", because your ISPs network and lines are overloaded. And this is precisely why you experience this incosistency in online gaming performence, when the network usage in your area/city is low you feel that everything is better, when network is overloaded you are getting all kind of problems that are affecting your gaming performence.

Another reason is that your ISP started offering faster connections to its customers, and you probably have faster connection now, then you had in 2010, 2005, or 2000. Same with people in your area/city, all of them have faster connections now then they had years before. On top of that your ISPs network is much more automatic these days, everything is configured in a way to improve network stability and reliability to all customers and to lower failure rate and network connection problems such as disconnections. In the past this was more user manageable, meaning that your ISPs technicans and people from customer service could alter your connection parameters more freely than it is possible nowadays.
erobuR wrote: Cause/Steps to recreate the issue
I started to strongly believe that this is an electrical problem. I bought an online ups which made the feeling better. The worse is when you plug all the fans into the motherboard so motherboard tries to control fans itself (QFAN). I now run them through Nzxt case module. I even once with my old PC opened a thread like how fans were the cause of big input lag but now I understand something was messing with the sensors. Better feeling is when I disable spread spectrum of all kinds. I do not know why but it helps. Also disabling over voltage monitoring from bios helps.

What have I tried
I tried all the tweaks in this planet, believe me. MSI modes, IRQ prioritize via regedit, pagefile messings, installing windows default drivers instead of realtek drivers, using different soundcards, trying different Hz in mice and many mice, many other keyboards, two different modems, even throwing the Thermaltake Armor VA8000 case from windows after changing all the system and seeing the problem is there. I installed many Windows versions from pro to home to developers.

It gets better for some hours, for some hours not, then again better. I have 100mbit VDSL connection. I tried different monitors too. I called two electricians who were looking at me as if i am some mental, and they could not understand anything at all. My country uses 220V. When i set my UPS to provide me 208V the feeling gets much more better. I have no idea why, the electricians have no idea here too. I doubt they know anything besides cabling.
erobuR wrote: Capped or uncapped, 60hz, 120hz or 144hz(this gives worst feeling) it happens. It is not just about vsync, I get it even on desktop. When the problem is at peak, when I write something like this the input lag is really there. I have two different mechanical keyboards and also chiclets and it is not caused by keyboard, too.

Just to let you know, whenever I use my PC without online-UPS it is worse. So UPS is filtering out something, maybe harmonics, maybe EMI I do not know but I can make you sure that it is something related with power. V-Sync, adaptive, half adaptive, anything, I have been messing up such settings for years and I am a power user and ex-competitive. It is not a setting related to monitor. It is something that either affects the monitor and/or the responsiveness it gives.
Assuming that you don't have other issues (or issues caused by system "fixes" that you tried to apply), the things you are describing might be a placebo. Let me explain. Whenever you apply a "fix" it "might" work temporarly (at least you feel it does), and then you have guides created by people that have 50 different ways to improve game performance and "fix" bad hit registration, laggy feel (and other problems) in games, which none of them really work. Basically, you might experience different level of performance during different hours in a day, all of it depends on how many people are using internet in your area at the same time, and how overloaded your ISP network is.

So in short, when having network connection problems, any fix you apply on your side, related to hardware, software, system, system "fixes and improvements" (from online sources), game settings, outside sources (cables, routers, UPS) will mean literally nothing, and it may fool you into thinking that something has actually worked and improved things, which sadly is not true.

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Chief Blur Buster
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Re: You guys are my last hope for fixing my problem

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 04 Nov 2017, 14:02

Glide wrote:Almost all of the changes you've listed are placebos that don't have any impact on the issues you describe.
I did indeed say “there is an element of partial false positives/false reports” (that includes potential placebos) but there are often true surprises too! We are constantly amazed that (among the placebos) exists true unexpected situations of input lag — including lag caused by unusually extreme electrical noise in a Rube-Goldbergian chain reaciton. It’s those “one in a million” situations sometimes, but we always keep an open mind! What I’ve said helps to “put everything on the table” — not leaving stones unturned anyway. And lag analysis has revealed surprises too.
Glide wrote:If you want to eliminate motion blur you need a CRT, or an LCD with LightBoost or ULMB or similar tech.
Knowing how important low-lag CS:GO is, and how controversial strobing is in some circles:

Today, the lowest-lag motion-blur-reducing strobe backlight in a mainstream gaming monitor, is the 240Hz version of Zowie/BenQ’s DyAc -- the BenQ Zowie XL2546, and it is marketed to eSports players. That said, ULMB strobes cleaner (you can also use a tweaked lower-Hz DyAc) if reduced strobe crosstalk is the main concern (and looks beautiful with VSYNC ON) but ultra-high-framerate VSYNC OFF players may prefer DyAc since there’s less scanout-versus-strobe input lag asymmetry (the lag difference between LCD scanout in total dark, versus the all-at-once strobe flash).

In professional competitive circles, there is much debate about how strobing helps or hurts gameplay, and I’ve given my thoughts on the “Right Tool For Right Job” in this thread: HOWTO: Properly Using ULMB Beautifully or Competitively.

In that thread, there is a TestUFO demonstration that demonstrates this extremely well, and shows how specific games where strobing REALLY helps a lot in competitive advantage, and other specific games where strobing doesn’t matter to their gaming style (and apparently, CS;GO is one of those games: near-permanently-fixed-gaze at crosshairs all the time, using only peripheral vision to pay attention to stuff away from crosshairs — some eSports players use this tactic with their eyes).

The eSports players that choose the “stare-always-at-crosshair” gaming tactics, blur reduction is genuinely useless in helping with stationary-gaze situations. So it’s not surprising that many CS:GO players claim that strobing is useless. But the real answer is: It depends on what you do with your eyes (station vs moving) for specific games.

Strobing massively helps eye-tracking on panning/moving-object situations. So it helps, for instance, Rocket League more than CS:GO. Other gamers flit their eyes all over the screen during CS:GO, or turn slightly slower than an insta-180-flick to allow tracking eyes on the panning during CS:GO turning for faster target acquisition, or things like low-altitude helicoptor flybys, or tracking a fast-moving ball, etc. Basically, tracking moving objects instead of fixing-gaze at crosshairs.

And you, need a model with super bright strobing (much brighter than LightBoost) so you don’t get the dim-screen disadvantage of yesterday’s LightBoost. Lots of CS:GO gamers pan the crappy LightBoost quality, but there’s a world of wonderfully bright & colorful & less-laggy strobe backlights waiting in a (carefully selected) brand new monitor purchase, too.
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lexlazootin
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Re: You guys are my last hope for fixing my problem

Post by lexlazootin » 04 Nov 2017, 21:43

We're talking about a player that doesn't understand screen tearing and i suppose didn't know it was normal.

> I don't have legit sprays. My spray patterns are always too off from the usual ones that should be. Two bullets can be really off because there are micromicrostutters happening. And even though the mouse and table is standing still, it can spray as if i have Parkinson's disease.

> Peaking is a no no. As the textures are waving it is impossible to see someone and play competitively.

It makes complete sense for tearing to be the culprit, i had the same problems when using ULMB or back when i had my 75hz monitor i had it really bad. I was a big boy and fix my problems by getting a G-Sync monitor.

> Using WASD feels like I'm using a truck. When I watch my replays i act and move like as if my grandma started gaming and she is trying to figure out WASD movement.

Some keyboards have 20-40ms or even more debounce and a bunch of latency. Add onto the slow startup speed of the CS:GO movement it can feel pretty slow.

> I cannot see people peaking onto me. I just die the moment i see them with 100mbits VDSL 17mod internet. My competitive ping is around 60ms. Domestic servers in my country feel better by far.

I get this shit all the time, you need to not underestimate how much faster a player looks peaking INTO you compared to doing it yourself, You can test it yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFPlrNNEiMo

Occam's razor please. I'm open to other possibility but this internet/power thing is stupid with no evidence to back it up.

mello
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Re: You guys are my last hope for fixing my problem

Post by mello » 05 Nov 2017, 06:15

lexlazootin wrote:We're talking about a player that doesn't understand screen tearing and i suppose didn't know it was normal.
This is not the case here, and you have completely misunderstood what he is really saying.
The main problem is that his in game performance varies a lot:
Some days or even hours it is better. Some days it is the worst. It DOES really change a lot.
- he has mentioned it several times in his posts.

And he assumes that what he sees and feels is the problem. Tearing, motion blur, stutter, input lag - internet connection problems (huge variance in network performence) may make you feel like these things are the problem, not sure how it works (probably a mind doing its thing), but you might feel that these things are somehow amplified at times and that it creates the problem that you are experiencing. But the key thing here is this: Tearing, motion blur, stutter, input lag - all of it will be always there if the problem is on your side, it will not go away or magically disappear just to surprise and bother you 2 days or 2 hours later. People need to understand that when the perceived problem is constant it is on the clients side and it can be fixed, if the perceived problem shows up randomly and randomly goes away, it is an internet connection problem that can't be fixed on clients side, no matter what you do. Please keep in mind that i am still talking and referring to online game performence here, because this is the reason all these people came here for help. Apart from this topic, there are others, here and here, all these guys feel like their problem is related to "Tearing, motion blur, stutter, input lag" that affects their in game performence to a bigger degree. I had a similar way of thinking in the past, despite knowing deep down that i had internet connection problems.

And lets get a little more intense here. Do you really think that all these people would not be able to fix their problem for all these years ? All of them had this problem for years and still can't figure it out. It is because they are looking at the wrong thing here. If you play the game day after day, everyday, and you experience huge variance in your gaming performance that clearly creates problems and affects your gameplay, then think about this. Nothing in your hardware, software or system changes during that time, nothing. The only thing that changes constantly is your network performance, and the only thing that can have a huge effect on your online gaming, create serious problems ("hit registration") and incosistencies, are network performance fluctuations. Hardware, software or system related problems can't do that.

Do you know why all these people came here for help ? Because they have convinced themselfes that their problem is related to "Tearing, motion blur, stutter, input lag" or a combination of these things. So they bought themselfes new high end hardware, new ultra fast monitors, gaming mouses... and guess what, it didn't change a damn thing. And now they are going mental, because they can't figure out what the problems is ! One guy is going deep into electrical problems, the other one thinks that it is a game engine problem that is affecting only him (!) and not the other people, third guy doesn't want to believe that it is a internet problem, even when everything he says clearly points out to it. And what is even worse, people like you lexlazootin claim that there is no problem at all, and people are either imagining things or they are just bad at playing the game.

Please learn to read between the lines, use logic and common sense. None of these people came here, because they had "Tearing, motion blur, stutter, input lag" problems, they came here because their online game performence varies a lot, creating huge problems and inconsistencies of how the game feels like. And the sad thing is, you won't be able to help them, fix their problem, or even diagnose it, based on your area of expertise. Why ? Because it is completely unrelated to what the real problem is, which is an internet connection related problem.

Another very important thing that people here clearly don't understand. When playing via internet, apart from players skill, network performance is the most important thing when it comes to FPS gaming, it is so important that everything else becomes really irrelevant. And by everything else i mean, mouse, monitor, 60fps@60Hz, low end pc (low fps), tearing, stutter, motion blur. All of it doesn't really matter if player has skill and great network performence (low ping and perfect or near perfect hit reg). Example:

1) high skilled player will be play at the same level, even with 60fps@60hz, low end pc (low fps), random mouse, as long as he has low ping and great hit reg. Your eyes can adjust to 60fps@60Hz (even when you change from 144fps@144Hz), and you can get used to random mouse, tearing, motion blur and stutter, in the end it will not affect your performence to a significant degree as long as you have low ping and good hit reg.

2) high skilled player will not be able to play at the same level, when he has really bad network performence (bad hit registration) even if he has best hardware in the world. Bad network performence can skill cap you so bad, that you go from being elite/high skilled to average skilled (gaming via internet). Bad network performance may render gaming unplayable, regardless of what your hardware is.
lexlazootin wrote: Occam's razor please. I'm open to other possibility but this internet/power thing is stupid with no evidence to back it up.
I can now say that without shadow of a doubt you have no idea what you are talking about, mostly because you simply don't understand how internet works and how important its performance is in relation to online gaming. You can't play online if you don't have internet or if your internet doesn't work. So how anyone dares to say that internet performance fluctuations can have any affect on online game performence... god, ignorance at its fullest.

@lexlazootin, the sooner you realize that you are wrong and lack knowledge and experience in this area, the better. Only then you will be able to help other people that are experiencing these problems, and the sooner they realize what the real culprit is, the better and healthier for them, they will be able to make a peace with it and move on with their lives.

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Re: You guys are my last hope for fixing my problem

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 05 Nov 2017, 12:46

Enough, enough.

I KNOW this is a controversial topic.

And there are too many tweaks being done (in misguided belief)...

BUT

I have seen situations where everybody here is correct (lexlazootin, mello, and me) for a given situation.

There's been 100% placebo before.
There's been incorrect diagnoses.
There's been lots who are "hypochondriac for their computers" (for good or bad)
There's been lots of genuine researchers who are actually open-mindedly analyzing all of this (finding 95% placebo, 5% surprises) (that's me)
There's been actual measured differences (high speed camera or other lag tests) because of weird computer problems (including power)
There's a lot of things exacerbated by incorrect attempts to fix the problem but that multiple root problems still exists.
There's been pure software problems misunderstood as hardware problems.
Sometimes a solution is amazingly unexpected.
Etc.

Around here, we keep an open mind. Almost nobody believed LCDs could have practically CRT motion clarity (even if not color) even when I yelled on the treetops in year 2012 that strobing a backlight is what we needed. (We used to be http://www.scanningbacklight.com -- we still own that domain name, and it redirects to us). But now people know it's possible, thanks to LightBoost / ULMB / etc -- that strobing an LCD allows bypassing most of the LCD GtG pixel response limitations upon motion blur, thanks in part to our popular LightBoost high speed video (December 23, 2012) that educated how to bypass LCD GtG via a strobe backlight. Before that video, I repeatedly had major arguments with display engineers who thought they knew better than this hobbyist (me), but I persisted, and Blur Busters has gained a good reputation of having been right, ahead of many others.

We exist because people didn't believe us in Year 2012
Blur Busters was born because of disbelief.

Here, we keep an open mind.
We do not "assume" around here.


Around here, at Blur Busters, we're VERY interested in the "5%". We punch through the FUD and get to the interesting science stuff that sometimes surprises everybody.

You've seen stories of computer monitors not working due to EMI (and some displays were unusually sensitive, like the LG 5K), but similar EMI can also slow down something that doesn't fully crash from amplified ECC factors -- like a HDD cable or a DSL modem (there's lots of proof, years ago I've seen DSLReport graphs that shows proof of ping changes from EMI on modem -- tight SNR issues can cause large fluctuations in ping from an old DSL modem especially in the pre-VDSL days -- with lots of houses having old phone wiring and many being at the very end of a DSL loop). These are not relevant to the OP anymore likely, but such things exists as problems for others, and can confuse things quite a lot in a bunch of misdiagnoses, because these kinds of problems (while genuinely exists, even if rare) are often placebos but have proved not to be permanently always. So easy to misdiagnose and easy to be "hypochondriac for your computer".

All of you and me have proved correct before. But all of you (nor me) may even apply very differently to the OP's situation. Right now we also have a case of "it's possible all of us are mostly right simultaneously, or it's possible none of us are right simultaneously". The user might even be unfamiliar, trying to honestly follow misguided advice everywhere on the Internet, with lots of placebos mixed in with a 5% surprise factor. I've seen it happen, whether it be a "TestUFO Stuck at 60Hz" or "That Weird CS:GO Stutter" or an offshoot topic The user is witnessing lots of effects they are potentially/likely unfamiliar with. While, simultaneously, at the same time, other changes to their system is unexpectedly exacerbating things (or potentially being misdiagnosed). *I* can be wrong too. Even I admit that.
lexlazootin wrote:Occam's razor please. I'm open to other possibility but this internet/power thing is stupid with no evidence to back it up.
lexlazootin, let's spin this into more positive debate, please.
mello wrote:@lexlazootin, the sooner you realize that you are wrong and lack knowledge and experience in this area, the better.
mello, let's spin this into more positive debate, please.

Good stuff is being said, but this tone of writing do not belong on Blur Busters, the site that pushes boundaries of disbelief (30fps-vs-60fps! strobing! 1000Hz! Human eyes can't see the difference! Etc.)

Ideally, I'd rather not see things escalate any further into negativity.
So, please. Open mind, pretty please? ;)

Okay? Thank you...
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Re: You guys are my last hope for fixing my problem

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 05 Nov 2017, 13:04

Glide wrote:Image
Glide, very good photo, and very informative facts/evidence-based addition to the thread.

Also, additional warping can also occur from display scanout -- this part is still visible with VSYNC ON -- it is demonstrated at http://www.testufo.com/scanskew (Switch to 60Hz first before seeing that motion test -- it's MUCH easier to see at 60Hz). It's also fun to see it happen on an iPad too when it's rotated to a specific screen orientation (some cellphone users call it the "jello scrolling" effect) -- the finite speed of screen scanout can cause additional skew effects above-and-beyond this type of skewing.

Nontheless, VSYNC OFF shows amplified skewing effects especially at ultra-high framerates at low Hz -- e.g. 1000fps @ 60Hz. The tearslices are so huge in numbers, and with so subtle shifts, you can get slant effects more visible than tearing effects.

Image

This explains exactly what Glide is seeing -- unusually high framerate (like almost an order of magnitude above refresh rate) will show more skewing than tearing. The higher the framerate, the more tearslices there are, and the smaller the horizontal shifts become for tearslices. Eventually, there are so many tearslices, it simply looks like slanting/skewing instead of tearing because of tiny horizontal shifts in extremely thin tearslice stacked on each other.

This is also likely very much also being experienced, but it does not explain the OP's huge performance variations (which may still be caused by another outside factor -- like drivers, or software, or defective component, or even power issues (the "5% chance" factor --
thermal throttling will change framerate downwards which will cause dramatic changes to skew-vs-tearing visibility, etc -- because he said 208V vs 240V). Plus the rest being placebos. Or it's coincidential because some other problem (e.g. software) is accidentally occuring at the same time as switching between 208V and 240V. Yes, that's true too. But we can't assume, even if it's correct only 99% or 95% of the time.

But clearly, it appears this is not the only problem the OP is having. There's something else; that huge frame rate fluctuation.
___________

See, He's got multiple potential problems and potential side-effects and potential placebos layered upon itself, and mis-diagnoses are very easy here. Just because it's 95% placebos, it's not always 100%. 95% is not 100%. 100% is not 95%. (Or pick a different number, such as 99% placebos or 80% placebos). It certainly could be 100% placebos, but we can't assume that around here. That's not Blur Busters. There's sometimes a tiny unexpected hardware problem that's in the soup of confusing misdiagnoses and placebos. Waving/dismissing these is bad practice on Blur Busters, period. We weren't born that way.

We love evidence-based stuff like Glide's post. He at least had the open-mindedness to say "nearly all" are placebos, leaving open a door a crack for all those "unusual unexpected surprises".

Please, no more "you're wrong" anymore from anybody to anybody -- the next time someone calls someone "wrong" will result in a post edit or thread closure. You can debate that they're wrong by replying with evidence/facts instead of using the word "wrong" -- remember proof of X doesn't mean proof of Y -- sometimes X and Y can exist simultaneously -- please remember that.

We discovered why ULMB helps players sometimes and why ULMB hurts players sometimes -- we were open-minded to both sides of the eSports "strobing is useless" or "strobing is amazing" debate -- and we figured out why -- and posted here with an evidence-based animation that proves both side of the argument; that both sides are right! X and Y aren't always mutually exclusive. See??

Be nice to each other. Even if you think they're wrong.
(Sometimes they are wrong. Sometimes I am wrong too. But step back, take a breath, approach with evidence/proof-based nice-rebuttals rather than upsetting each other with dismissive "you're wrong" wordings.)
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Chief Blur Buster
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Re: You guys are my last hope for fixing my problem

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 05 Nov 2017, 14:33

Another theory in this universe of multilayered problems overlapping each other:
Re-reviewing the videos again, with Glide's example --

I see the tearline hovering near the same place (albiet very erratically) -- that occurs when framerates nearly match refresh rate (one jittery/stationary tearline) or nearly exactly twice refresh rate (two jittery/stationary tearlines). A very randomly-jittering stationary tearline can be very problematic for aiming; it's better to uncap the frame rate and run at frame rates far above refresh rate (e.g. >300fps at 144Hz).

The aiming mechanics during a vibrating tearline can be worse (frame rates nearly matching refresh rate but cap is very erratic) than the aiming mechanics of fast-rolling tearlines (framerates far greater than refreshrate). The input lag just right-above a tearline is lower than the lag right below a tearline, so if you have a rapidly-random-vibrating tearline that's bouncing up/down past your crosshairs, you will have huge lag randomization (sometimes one full refresh cycle of lag randomization -- random additions/subtractions of 6.9ms as the tearline vibrates above/below your crosshairs level). So you want to ideally push overkill framerates, like 300fps@144Hz or 500fps@144Hz, in order to avoid the erratic aiming caused by a vibrating tearline at your crosshairs.

You can reduce latency jittering effects by going VSYNC ON. You get more lag, but at least it's more predictable lag (less lag jittering). Maybe that is the playing style you had before 2010.

Framerate speedups/slowdowns (caused by any problem, hardware, software, overheating, thermal throttling, game engines, drivers, even power, ping fluctuations, common causes, rare causes, etc), will cause the tearline to modulate away from the "stationary-vibrating tearlne" of framerate nearly equal refresh rate. Tearline position is usually either more random or rolling fast, if framerates move away from refresh rate even by just 5fps - so aiming feels different. This might cause noticed weird correlations with weird things. Yup. The "Rube Goldberg" chain reaction factor, aiming suddenly improving from a 10fps difference, etc.

Most (not all) of these problems can also be solved by going to a 240Hz GSYNC monitor. Framerate fluctuations caused most factors (except a few like hard disk stalls, bugs, game engine flaws, etc) -- even thermal-throttling-related (by any cause) -- will usually be absorbed very well by G-SYNC, and the 240Hz headroom greatly mitigates the worries of input lag caused by hitting against the VRR limit. The frame rate will change with no tearlines or stutter or visible skewing effects, and input lag jitter (variability in input lag) will go WAY down, making it easier to aim even in low-tickrate games (like PUBG)

You'll be able to play many games well under the G-SYNC limit, with no tearing, and 240Hz will greatly improve evening -- it can be easier to aim in games like PUBG with 240Hz G-SYNC than 144Hz VSYNC OFF. Remember, G-SYNC can be turned OFF for certain games (e.g. CS:GO) if the you find 240Hz VSYNC OFF works better for CS:GO in competitive situations. I've heard multiple reports that 240Hz G-SYNC really helps PUBG gameplay (moreso than CS:GO which often wants to run far above refresh rate).

That said, there may still be more problems to diagnose, but the skewing effects can be solved by G-SYNC.
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