internet latency & effects on hit registration

Everything about latency. Tips, testing methods, mouse lag, display lag, game engine lag, network lag, whole input lag chain, VSYNC OFF vs VSYNC ON, and more! Input Lag Articles on Blur Busters.
Locked
wadge
Posts: 107
Joined: 17 Nov 2020, 11:14

Re: internet latency & effects on hit registration

Post by wadge » 06 Apr 2021, 07:03

I tired to use this tool but unfortunatly the game (warzone) closes before i can even get to the menu.
Same thing happened when i tried to use warp+

RocketRager
Posts: 21
Joined: 05 Apr 2021, 15:35

Re: internet latency & effects on hit registration

Post by RocketRager » 08 Apr 2021, 11:13

Looking at their site, then googling about it....

It’s a just lag switch?

JDoe
Posts: 36
Joined: 14 Feb 2021, 08:03

Re: internet latency & effects on hit registration

Post by JDoe » 17 Apr 2021, 09:57

I noticed that almost everyone who complains here about "bad internet" says things like "I have been playing competitive shooters for 15 years" or "I started playing when first CS betas released". But maybe it is the exact root of your problem. You aged your reflexes and reaction time degraded and now you just can't be as good as when you were 20. There is a reason why professional gamers retire when they get close to 30 years old.
I myself have been playing CS for more than 20 years. At first I was good but now I just suck enormously. I have 7000 hours in CS GO and struggle on level 3 Faceit. There are rare games where I can top frag and have a good KD but most of the time I am at the bottom of the scoreboard and can't keep even 1 KD. I have tried different mice, different monitors, different mousepads, different settings and tweaks but nothing helps. I just suck and each year my skill degrades more and more.

Silverkuki
Posts: 3
Joined: 19 May 2021, 18:33

Re: internet latency & effects on hit registration

Post by Silverkuki » 19 May 2021, 20:49

I want to chime in and add my own personal experiences to this thread so that the others who believe they have a problem don't feel crazy.

Quick backstory, I've been ranked top 1% in a handful of shooters from console to PC. I've been pulling my hair out for about a decade due to numerous "abnormal" issues. It wasn't until I stumbled across this forum that I found a potential answer to the issues... And the issues are numerous:

- interpolation issues where enemies move at lightspeed (sonic the hedgehog strafes)
- bullet refunding, bullet eating, ghost shots
- dying egregiously behind geometry (not a few inches, like 5+ feet)
- shoulder peeking for milliseconds and dying only to see via replay you apparently just stood in the open while the enemy lit you up
- missed/dropped inputs
- feeling like you're moving in mud on certain servers
- entering lobbies where everyone seems a half to full second ahead of you
- miscellaneous but frequent abnormalities

And like everyone else has said, you start to feel crazy because the issues aren't 100% persistent, but they're persistent enough to where you cannot play or game at a competitive level. I thought everyone struggled with these issues back in the day but with the surging popularity of gaming youtube VODs, and justin/twitch livestreaming, it became readily apparent to me that almost no one experienced these same issues I do. And of course, these issues manifest differently in every game so you can't just google what happens and find a rational explanation. But when you see people consistently winning 90% of their gun fights with first shot, and I'm sitting here losing 90% with first shot and perfect accuracy, something is wrong.

I always have decent latency metrics; lowish ping (30 - 60), no packet loss, low jitter, and yet it's obvious to anyone who plays in my home that something is wrong. I fully realized the severity of the issues when I used the LTE hotspot on my phone and had far less "unexplainable issues" but much worse conventional lag (rubber banding, teleporting, ping spikes, packet loss, etc.). How is it possible that it feels better to play on a laggier connection than a "perfect" wired cable connection?

I only know one other person who experiences these issues to the same degree that I do, and he has experienced them in two different homes. When I'd play on my setup at someone else's house everything felt so much slower, effortless, and smooth. I've tried three different ISP's with no success; but varying severity of experienced issues. They all suck, some just sucked less than others. No fibre is available in my area, and I never gamed competitively when I lived elsewhere.

I have tried literally everything; new modems, new ethernet cables, changed location of consoles/pc, new hardware, different ISPs, cable/DSL, etc. Nothing has eliminated these issues. Currently, the plan I'm on is the best it has ever been; but there are still days that I'd rather bash my head against cement than try to play because of how unfair it feels.

The casual players will never recognize the nuances that go into playing a game competitively, and are thus unable to pinpoint when something is wrong with the game, connection, or combination of both. This isn't simple regular every day lag that goes along with the nature of online games, and no one except mello has ever been able to articulate a theory (to me) as to why it happens. The vast majority of people I've spoken to don't even believe I experience these issues because they don't. I'm here to tell the naysayers that it's not just a "git gud" solution.

losxer
Posts: 57
Joined: 19 Apr 2021, 21:03

Re: internet latency & effects on hit registration

Post by losxer » 21 May 2021, 17:09

Silverkuki wrote:
19 May 2021, 20:49
I want to chime in and add my own personal experiences to this thread so that the others who believe they have a problem don't feel crazy.

Quick backstory, I've been ranked top 1% in a handful of shooters from console to PC. I've been pulling my hair out for about a decade due to numerous "abnormal" issues. It wasn't until I stumbled across this forum that I found a potential answer to the issues... And the issues are numerous:

- interpolation issues where enemies move at lightspeed (sonic the hedgehog strafes)
- bullet refunding, bullet eating, ghost shots
- dying egregiously behind geometry (not a few inches, like 5+ feet)
- shoulder peeking for milliseconds and dying only to see via replay you apparently just stood in the open while the enemy lit you up
- missed/dropped inputs
- feeling like you're moving in mud on certain servers
- entering lobbies where everyone seems a half to full second ahead of you
- miscellaneous but frequent abnormalities

And like everyone else has said, you start to feel crazy because the issues aren't 100% persistent, but they're persistent enough to where you cannot play or game at a competitive level. I thought everyone struggled with these issues back in the day but with the surging popularity of gaming youtube VODs, and justin/twitch livestreaming, it became readily apparent to me that almost no one experienced these same issues I do. And of course, these issues manifest differently in every game so you can't just google what happens and find a rational explanation. But when you see people consistently winning 90% of their gun fights with first shot, and I'm sitting here losing 90% with first shot and perfect accuracy, something is wrong.

I always have decent latency metrics; lowish ping (30 - 60), no packet loss, low jitter, and yet it's obvious to anyone who plays in my home that something is wrong. I fully realized the severity of the issues when I used the LTE hotspot on my phone and had far less "unexplainable issues" but much worse conventional lag (rubber banding, teleporting, ping spikes, packet loss, etc.). How is it possible that it feels better to play on a laggier connection than a "perfect" wired cable connection?

I only know one other person who experiences these issues to the same degree that I do, and he has experienced them in two different homes. When I'd play on my setup at someone else's house everything felt so much slower, effortless, and smooth. I've tried three different ISP's with no success; but varying severity of experienced issues. They all suck, some just sucked less than others. No fibre is available in my area, and I never gamed competitively when I lived elsewhere.

I have tried literally everything; new modems, new ethernet cables, changed location of consoles/pc, new hardware, different ISPs, cable/DSL, etc. Nothing has eliminated these issues. Currently, the plan I'm on is the best it has ever been; but there are still days that I'd rather bash my head against cement than try to play because of how unfair it feels.

The casual players will never recognize the nuances that go into playing a game competitively, and are thus unable to pinpoint when something is wrong with the game, connection, or combination of both. This isn't simple regular every day lag that goes along with the nature of online games, and no one except mello has ever been able to articulate a theory (to me) as to why it happens. The vast majority of people I've spoken to don't even believe I experience these issues because they don't. I'm here to tell the naysayers that it's not just a "git gud" solution.
Yo dude, same here, people think Is Electricity.. so i think we cant figure out of this shit, maybie Need more 10 years.. when ur 1% in shooting game what type of internet do u use? And more important question, when u get this problem Is Way After u switch isp or tecnology?

mello
Posts: 251
Joined: 31 Jan 2014, 04:24

Re: internet latency & effects on hit registration

Post by mello » 24 May 2021, 09:10

Silverkuki wrote:
19 May 2021, 20:49
- interpolation issues where enemies move at lightspeed (sonic the hedgehog strafes)
- bullet refunding, bullet eating, ghost shots
- dying egregiously behind geometry (not a few inches, like 5+ feet)
- shoulder peeking for milliseconds and dying only to see via replay you apparently just stood in the open while the enemy lit you up
- missed/dropped inputs
- feeling like you're moving in mud on certain servers
- entering lobbies where everyone seems a half to full second ahead of you
- miscellaneous but frequent abnormalities
Beautiful and correct summary of how these issues manifest themselves.

All of that is determined solely by players internet connection performance and UDP packet flow / packet processing. Some players simply have a connection good enough which essentially allows them to see other players sooner while also enjoying perfect hit registration. This translates into having much more time to move, strafe, jump or to shoot once you see the enemy. This is packet loss, so a bad connection causes simulation accuracy issues and you are simply not participating in a game in a real time fashion. This issue most likely didn't existed in the early days (~2000 and before) but progressively started getting worse with more and more people having internet access at their homes worldwide. Not everyone is affected by this, but certain players gain an extreme advantage over majority of players in online FPS shooters thanks to that.

The most extreme examples of this i see in Apex Legends while watching many popular Twitch streamers, including the supposed "gods" / pro players / elite players. Some of these players have way too much time to shoot at the enemies (before you can see enemy reacting) and this is blatantly clear when watching their streams. It has nothing to do with skill or reflex, but with the advantage of seeing enemies faster then they can see you. And you know what happens when barely anyone is able to shoot at you in a timely fashion in FPS games ? You destroy the entire server and appear to be an elite player to others. But movement, situation awareness, aiming skills doesn't lie. Anyone can appear to be much better than he actually is when no is shooting at them. Many newbies, average but also good players are being lifted in game results & achievements thanks to this bizarre advantage. Also, none of the people who are playing on a pro level have these issues either. It is simply impossible to reach elite / pro status (in any FPS game) with bad connection which causes the significant delay in seeing other players while also introducing hit registration issues and other problems that ultimately determine game results, including 1v1 encounters etc.
Silverkuki wrote:
19 May 2021, 20:49
I always have decent latency metrics; lowish ping (30 - 60), no packet loss, low jitter, and yet it's obvious to anyone who plays in my home that something is wrong.
This is UDP packet loss, but it is simply not being measured by the game itself. This is why this whole thing is deceiving and people search endlessly for solutions while ignoring the main culprit, which is the internet.
Silverkuki wrote:
19 May 2021, 20:49
I fully realized the severity of the issues when I used the LTE hotspot on my phone and had far less "unexplainable issues" but much worse conventional lag (rubber banding, teleporting, ping spikes, packet loss, etc.). How is it possible that it feels better to play on a laggier connection than a "perfect" wired cable connection?
Another bingo. This is exactly what i have observed personally. Wireless connections (LTE etc. from mobile internet providers) either don't have these issues or they are much less prelevant. But in exchange you are getting an old fashioned lag problems.
Silverkuki wrote:
19 May 2021, 20:49
I only know one other person who experiences these issues to the same degree that I do, and he has experienced them in two different homes. When I'd play on my setup at someone else's house everything felt so much slower, effortless, and smooth. I've tried three different ISP's with no success; but varying severity of experienced issues. They all suck, some just sucked less than others. No fibre is available in my area, and I never gamed competitively when I lived elsewhere.
I suggest trying VPN with WireGuard. If you are lucky and there are quality servers with good connections close to you, then some of these issues will be partially or completely fixed or the severity will be vastly lowered. It is still not the fix everyone is looking for, but the improvement can be significant.
Silverkuki wrote:
19 May 2021, 20:49
The casual players will never recognize the nuances that go into playing a game competitively, and are thus unable to pinpoint when something is wrong with the game, connection, or combination of both.
Another very good observation. This is exactly why certain kind of an experience, skill & understanding of game mechanics is crucial to even gain an awareness of this problem existing.
Silverkuki wrote:
19 May 2021, 20:49
This isn't simple regular every day lag that goes along with the nature of online games, and no one except mello has ever been able to articulate a theory (to me) as to why it happens. The vast majority of people I've spoken to don't even believe I experience these issues because they don't. I'm here to tell the naysayers that it's not just a "git gud" solution.
This is the worst part of all of that. Someone who never had this problem simply thinks that you are either bad at the game or you are just making excuses. Personally, i'm unable to quantify what percentage of players are being affected by these issues or how severe they are. What i know though is that there is a certain threshold of severity of the problems and once you go below that (at the particular time you are playing the game), the online gaming is simple a frustraiting mess and a total nightmare, but when you are slightly above that threshold , then problems are still present to a certain degree but the gaming is much more consistent and much more in-tune in the way it should be.

mello
Posts: 251
Joined: 31 Jan 2014, 04:24

Re: internet latency & effects on hit registration

Post by mello » 24 May 2021, 09:41

blackmagic wrote:
24 May 2021, 09:26
lte and mobile...
i tried it here in germany and that literally dont do nothing on my issue here.
so lte and mobile can have this bad issues too or im just hard unlucky ?
If the same ISP is providing you with LTE or wired connection, then you shouldn't be expecting better performance in games. Same if some smaller ISP is providing LTE but is leasing the connections from the largest ISP (for example) in your country. The mobile connections i have tried were all from independent ISP's which were basically mobile operators who also provide internet for its clients.
blackmagic wrote:
24 May 2021, 09:26
i tried right now atleast 4 different mobile operators and lte for homes...
could not feel any difference to my 16mbit dsl line that i have here.
Then maybe your problem is different to what others are experiencing ?
I see and feel the difference immediately when reconnecing to the same server but using LTE or VPN.

wadge
Posts: 107
Joined: 17 Nov 2020, 11:14

Re: internet latency & effects on hit registration

Post by wadge » 24 May 2021, 12:14

I would say its interessting what mello is pointing here

Usually since many years now, i can tell that i notice good hitreg after i started my pc that has been off for few days but the hitreg quickly became bad again.

So i also had in mind that ISP's in general might be throttling the UDP flow on there lines maybe to accomodate all the users idk...

If only there was a way to mesure that so we can have a proof but im not a network engineer :(

I do have to say that i can feel a difference in a good way with 4G mobile when connecting to my phone but the lag is not playable same with a 4G router

I recently re install windows few days ago and my first game in warzone was perfect, i had time to react against ennemies and win my fights but it quickly became bad after few minutes of gaming

User avatar
n1zoo
Posts: 183
Joined: 04 Feb 2020, 06:26
Location: Lithuania

Re: internet latency & effects on hit registration

Post by n1zoo » 24 May 2021, 13:58

problem exists even in offline. u can change 50 isps u will have same result

wadge
Posts: 107
Joined: 17 Nov 2020, 11:14

Re: internet latency & effects on hit registration

Post by wadge » 24 May 2021, 14:35

Does anyone tried a double conversion ups (pure sine wave) ? not a line interactive or standby ups

Locked