internet latency & effects on hit registration

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BigBoi
Posts: 36
Joined: 26 Jun 2021, 18:46

Re: internet latency & effects on hit registration

Post by BigBoi » 08 Jul 2021, 13:29

Silverkuki wrote:
19 May 2021, 20:49
I want to chime in and add my own personal experiences to this thread so that the others who believe they have a problem don't feel crazy.

Quick backstory, I've been ranked top 1% in a handful of shooters from console to PC. I've been pulling my hair out for about a decade due to numerous "abnormal" issues. It wasn't until I stumbled across this forum that I found a potential answer to the issues... And the issues are numerous:

- interpolation issues where enemies move at lightspeed (sonic the hedgehog strafes)
- bullet refunding, bullet eating, ghost shots
- dying egregiously behind geometry (not a few inches, like 5+ feet)
- shoulder peeking for milliseconds and dying only to see via replay you apparently just stood in the open while the enemy lit you up
- missed/dropped inputs
- feeling like you're moving in mud on certain servers
- entering lobbies where everyone seems a half to full second ahead of you
- miscellaneous but frequent abnormalities

And like everyone else has said, you start to feel crazy because the issues aren't 100% persistent, but they're persistent enough to where you cannot play or game at a competitive level. I thought everyone struggled with these issues back in the day but with the surging popularity of gaming youtube VODs, and justin/twitch livestreaming, it became readily apparent to me that almost no one experienced these same issues I do. And of course, these issues manifest differently in every game so you can't just google what happens and find a rational explanation. But when you see people consistently winning 90% of their gun fights with first shot, and I'm sitting here losing 90% with first shot and perfect accuracy, something is wrong.

I always have decent latency metrics; lowish ping (30 - 60), no packet loss, low jitter, and yet it's obvious to anyone who plays in my home that something is wrong. I fully realized the severity of the issues when I used the LTE hotspot on my phone and had far less "unexplainable issues" but much worse conventional lag (rubber banding, teleporting, ping spikes, packet loss, etc.). How is it possible that it feels better to play on a laggier connection than a "perfect" wired cable connection?

I only know one other person who experiences these issues to the same degree that I do, and he has experienced them in two different homes. When I'd play on my setup at someone else's house everything felt so much slower, effortless, and smooth. I've tried three different ISP's with no success; but varying severity of experienced issues. They all suck, some just sucked less than others. No fibre is available in my area, and I never gamed competitively when I lived elsewhere.

I have tried literally everything; new modems, new ethernet cables, changed location of consoles/pc, new hardware, different ISPs, cable/DSL, etc. Nothing has eliminated these issues. Currently, the plan I'm on is the best it has ever been; but there are still days that I'd rather bash my head against cement than try to play because of how unfair it feels.

The casual players will never recognize the nuances that go into playing a game competitively, and are thus unable to pinpoint when something is wrong with the game, connection, or combination of both. This isn't simple regular every day lag that goes along with the nature of online games, and no one except mello has ever been able to articulate a theory (to me) as to why it happens. The vast majority of people I've spoken to don't even believe I experience these issues because they don't. I'm here to tell the naysayers that it's not just a "git gud" solution.
Where do you live? I wonder if this issue is more prevalent in a specific country. I live in Canada (Quebec) and what you've explained is pretty much the same situation I'm in right now. I am considering moving and living somewhere else with FTTH internet but i cannot know for sure if this will do the trick.

wadge
Posts: 107
Joined: 17 Nov 2020, 11:14

Re: internet latency & effects on hit registration

Post by wadge » 08 Jul 2021, 14:57

I can already tell ftth would not make any difference, i used to leave in Calgary And had the Telus ftth plan, now i moved back in france with Orange ftth (supposed to be the best isp) And same issue, as mello mentionned above, the only Time the game feels perfect its after a day or two of full shut down (maybe the time for the isp to clear the throttling algorithm) but then it only last for one game And its back to crap

Unixko
Posts: 212
Joined: 04 Jul 2020, 08:28

Re: internet latency & effects on hit registration

Post by Unixko » 08 Jul 2021, 14:59

BigBoi wrote:
08 Jul 2021, 13:29
Silverkuki wrote:
19 May 2021, 20:49
I want to chime in and add my own personal experiences to this thread so that the others who believe they have a problem don't feel crazy.

Quick backstory, I've been ranked top 1% in a handful of shooters from console to PC. I've been pulling my hair out for about a decade due to numerous "abnormal" issues. It wasn't until I stumbled across this forum that I found a potential answer to the issues... And the issues are numerous:

- interpolation issues where enemies move at lightspeed (sonic the hedgehog strafes)
- bullet refunding, bullet eating, ghost shots
- dying egregiously behind geometry (not a few inches, like 5+ feet)
- shoulder peeking for milliseconds and dying only to see via replay you apparently just stood in the open while the enemy lit you up
- missed/dropped inputs
- feeling like you're moving in mud on certain servers
- entering lobbies where everyone seems a half to full second ahead of you
- miscellaneous but frequent abnormalities

And like everyone else has said, you start to feel crazy because the issues aren't 100% persistent, but they're persistent enough to where you cannot play or game at a competitive level. I thought everyone struggled with these issues back in the day but with the surging popularity of gaming youtube VODs, and justin/twitch livestreaming, it became readily apparent to me that almost no one experienced these same issues I do. And of course, these issues manifest differently in every game so you can't just google what happens and find a rational explanation. But when you see people consistently winning 90% of their gun fights with first shot, and I'm sitting here losing 90% with first shot and perfect accuracy, something is wrong.

I always have decent latency metrics; lowish ping (30 - 60), no packet loss, low jitter, and yet it's obvious to anyone who plays in my home that something is wrong. I fully realized the severity of the issues when I used the LTE hotspot on my phone and had far less "unexplainable issues" but much worse conventional lag (rubber banding, teleporting, ping spikes, packet loss, etc.). How is it possible that it feels better to play on a laggier connection than a "perfect" wired cable connection?

I only know one other person who experiences these issues to the same degree that I do, and he has experienced them in two different homes. When I'd play on my setup at someone else's house everything felt so much slower, effortless, and smooth. I've tried three different ISP's with no success; but varying severity of experienced issues. They all suck, some just sucked less than others. No fibre is available in my area, and I never gamed competitively when I lived elsewhere.

I have tried literally everything; new modems, new ethernet cables, changed location of consoles/pc, new hardware, different ISPs, cable/DSL, etc. Nothing has eliminated these issues. Currently, the plan I'm on is the best it has ever been; but there are still days that I'd rather bash my head against cement than try to play because of how unfair it feels.

The casual players will never recognize the nuances that go into playing a game competitively, and are thus unable to pinpoint when something is wrong with the game, connection, or combination of both. This isn't simple regular every day lag that goes along with the nature of online games, and no one except mello has ever been able to articulate a theory (to me) as to why it happens. The vast majority of people I've spoken to don't even believe I experience these issues because they don't. I'm here to tell the naysayers that it's not just a "git gud" solution.
Where do you live? I wonder if this issue is more prevalent in a specific country. I live in Canada (Quebec) and what you've explained is pretty much the same situation I'm in right now. I am considering moving and living somewhere else with FTTH internet but i cannot know for sure if this will do the trick.
Canada? unlucky brother you should contact Calamity he alrdy try 25 places in Canada

BigBoi
Posts: 36
Joined: 26 Jun 2021, 18:46

Re: internet latency & effects on hit registration

Post by BigBoi » 08 Jul 2021, 16:32

Uuuuuhh well i don't know what to tell you guys, I've lived in two places before not too far from where i am with bell ftth and had no issues whatsoever. This only started happening after I've moved to a place where there was only cable shared across the neighbourhood. Either some people are just unlucky to be living in places with an insane amount of network traffic or their problems are not internet related.
wadge wrote:
08 Jul 2021, 14:57
(maybe the time for the isp to clear the throttling algorithm)
As far as i am concerned, Telus does not indicate in any shape or form that they are applying internet traffic management practices to their tariffs. If you suspect that they are lying you could simply report them to the CRTC but then you would have to prove that they are in fact lying. Also I'm pretty sure Canada as a whole is still in full support of net neutrality, any ISP's are obliged to tell you if they are really throttling certain traffic types or else they could simply be reported to the CRTC.

mello
Posts: 251
Joined: 31 Jan 2014, 04:24

Re: internet latency & effects on hit registration

Post by mello » 09 Jul 2021, 04:35

BigBoi wrote:
08 Jul 2021, 16:32
As far as i am concerned, Telus does not indicate in any shape or form that they are applying internet traffic management practices to their tariffs. If you suspect that they are lying you could simply report them to the CRTC but then you would have to prove that they are in fact lying. Also I'm pretty sure Canada as a whole is still in full support of net neutrality, any ISP's are obliged to tell you if they are really throttling certain traffic types or else they could simply be reported to the CRTC.
I don't think this is old school throttling of the traffic, as you can get full speeds for direct downloads and p2p without issues. Throughput is also clearly a non-issue here. This is more like traffic management and packet aggregation type of thing to improve network stability. UDP packets are prone to errors and being dropped while proper and uninterrupted delivery is crucial for real-time gaming. Any kind of "management" of these packets by the ISP (slowing them down, sending them out of order etc.) will have a negative impact on gaming. You wouldn't be able to notice any problem or delay in other programs, but gaming might just be the thing that is getting completely broken by these traffic management alghortims and software that is running it. This is exactly why torrenting or p2p in general sounds like a good guess and it would make sense that gaming traffic (UDP) is simply incorrectly detected as such and penalised. Or UDP, being prone to errors, gets special treatment if certain kind of UDP packet flow is being detected.

Even if the culprit will be finally identified i don't think that ISP's can be convinced to appply the gaming "fix" (if possible), because gaming is not something that they care about and contract never mentions anything about latency and performance in gaming. It is simply not something that is on their radar. If it works and you can play, they automatically assume there are no issues worth pursuing. They would to try fix it, if you would be getting frequent lags and disconnections though.

losxer
Posts: 57
Joined: 19 Apr 2021, 21:03

Re: internet latency & effects on hit registration

Post by losxer » 10 Jul 2021, 20:43

.
Last edited by losxer on 10 Jul 2021, 23:41, edited 1 time in total.

losxer
Posts: 57
Joined: 19 Apr 2021, 21:03

Re: internet latency & effects on hit registration

Post by losxer » 10 Jul 2021, 23:41

mello wrote:
09 Jul 2021, 04:35
BigBoi wrote:
08 Jul 2021, 16:32
As far as i am concerned, Telus does not indicate in any shape or form that they are applying internet traffic management practices to their tariffs. If you suspect that they are lying you could simply report them to the CRTC but then you would have to prove that they are in fact lying. Also I'm pretty sure Canada as a whole is still in full support of net neutrality, any ISP's are obliged to tell you if they are really throttling certain traffic types or else they could simply be reported to the CRTC.
I don't think this is old school throttling of the traffic, as you can get full speeds for direct downloads and p2p without issues. Throughput is also clearly a non-issue here. This is more like traffic management and packet aggregation type of thing to improve network stability. UDP packets are prone to errors and being dropped while proper and uninterrupted delivery is crucial for real-time gaming. Any kind of "management" of these packets by the ISP (slowing them down, sending them out of order etc.) will have a negative impact on gaming. You wouldn't be able to notice any problem or delay in other programs, but gaming might just be the thing that is getting completely broken by these traffic management alghortims and software that is running it. This is exactly why torrenting or p2p in general sounds like a good guess and it would make sense that gaming traffic (UDP) is simply incorrectly detected as such and penalised. Or UDP, being prone to errors, gets special treatment if certain kind of UDP packet flow is being detected.

Even if the culprit will be finally identified i don't think that ISP's can be convinced to appply the gaming "fix" (if possible), because gaming is not something that they care about and contract never mentions anything about latency and performance in gaming. It is simply not something that is on their radar. If it works and you can play, they automatically assume there are no issues worth pursuing. They would to try fix it, if you would be getting frequent lags and disconnections though.
What do you think about derived line with vdsl? Mabyie with direct line this probleme go away

wadge
Posts: 107
Joined: 17 Nov 2020, 11:14

Re: internet latency & effects on hit registration

Post by wadge » 12 Jul 2021, 04:24

Maybe some kind of voip priorization since voip is using udp packets too

losxer
Posts: 57
Joined: 19 Apr 2021, 21:03

Re: internet latency & effects on hit registration

Post by losxer » 12 Jul 2021, 18:14

VoIP Is not the problem, because mine vdsl Is RTG so work like adsl.

wadge
Posts: 107
Joined: 17 Nov 2020, 11:14

Re: internet latency & effects on hit registration

Post by wadge » 12 Jul 2021, 23:11

What i want to say is that we need to find a provider that prioritize udp packets... Is it possible to game on a VOIP plan ?

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