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internet latency & effects on hit registration

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Re: internet latency

Postby mello » 08 Jun 2019, 03:04

open wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GexxPKwZS5Q&t=7s
crobcats latest video on csgo


This is a completely separeted issue with the game itself, the game mechanics and hitboxes. It has been known since ever ;>
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Re: internet latency

Postby jorimt » 08 Jun 2019, 08:33

Not really my primary subject (so I have nothing technical to offer), but one (possibly semi-positive) thing for everyone to remember (and perhaps at least partially agree on) here, is if you're struggling with ISP/netcode issues in a given game, probably the majority of players you are with are experiencing varying levels of the same thing.

So, sure, you may be genuinely "cheated" of a kill one or two times because of this, but the player you failed to kill will likely experience the same thing from another player (or sometimes, maybe even you) in the very same match at some point :P

Bottom-line, from my (admittedly non-technical) point of view, is that while it would be great if all of these ISP/netcode issues and limitations disappear in the future, on average, I'm guessing this all evens out for everyone over the course of a few matches, and (while no doubt solid ISP performance, optimized netcode, higher server tickrate, and high Hz/FPS helps tremendously in these cases) player skill/perseverance probably wins out regardless.
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Re: internet latency

Postby nick4567 » 08 Jun 2019, 11:45

i could literally go 10 matches in a row with this issue constantly before it gets better this is way more severe than you think it is skill is not the issue here you could put a pro in my home and he would no longer be pro this is way worse than you think
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Re: internet latency

Postby jorimt » 08 Jun 2019, 12:28

I was not targeting you specifically, nor did I intend to irritate you (this thread is leaning way too much toward the defense); I was simply stating that the average player rarely has an optimal connection, so barring extreme circumstances, the average match gives mixed advantages/disadvantages to all players where average ISP/netcode performance is concerned.

Online play/performance is basically a gamble, even in the best of conditions (ridiculous amount of variables, which seem to shift randomly in rotation at any given point).

I obviously can't say for certain, but yours sounds much more ISP-based, if anything. And it looks like you've already determined this by playing at friends house, so, no, if that is the case, then there probably isn't much you can do on your side short of moving or hoping your ISP/infrastructure improves, especially if you've attempted everything else possible.
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Re: internet latency

Postby open » 08 Jun 2019, 12:45

This is a completely separeted issue with the game itself, the game mechanics and hitboxes. It has been known since ever ;>


Right. Exactly the kind of reason why you might want to measure and test ;p
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Re: internet latency

Postby nick4567 » 08 Jun 2019, 17:21

if you read the description in his comments it says it took him years to compile what 15 instances of csgos hitreg and in any case its not only csgo its every fps i play there is no point in testing when the issue is already known im not asking for tests to try and identify this issue im asking how isps can improve their infrastructure or provide alternative solutions if this problem were presented to say a bigger audience who might not even know what this problem is but descriptions of what it feels like would coincide with what some of them feel im sure most of them would be willing to pay extra to their isp for some gaming package which included packet prioritization which is a much more feasable option than playing the isp lottery
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Re: internet latency

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 09 Jun 2019, 16:05

nick4567 wrote:im asking how isps can improve their infrastructure or provide alternative solutions if this problem were presented to say a bigger audience who might not even know what this problem is but descriptions of what it feels like would coincide with what some of them feel im sure most of them would be willing to pay extra to their isp for some gaming package which included packet prioritization which is a much more feasable option than playing the isp lottery

Even if your ISP successfully achieves perfect packet prioritization for you, sometimes it's often beyond the ISP's control too.

Remember the traceroute between you and a good game server may end up being 10 or 12 or 15 hops just to get away from crappy servers. Not every single hop is controlled by you nor the ISP.

ISPs have a tall order:
- The city's infrastructure may be crap beyond ISP's control
- All the backbone providers may be crap beyond ISP's control
- Peak period will always have more users than offpeak. Freeways will always get congested at peak. The Internet will too (whether at the microsecond scale, the millisecond scale, or the seconds scale...the latency behaviour changes throughout the day).

Good metaphor: Even if latency and bandwidth is the same, there will always be more ping jitter at peak -- you can have perfect cruise control for a full hour on an empty freeway at exactly 55.000mph with no speed variance for a full hour. But your speed will always vary a few miles per hour on an intercity journey if there's at least some surrounding cars -- those ahead of you and those impatient behind you. The Internet is the same too -- you will always have more ping jitter during peak than offpeak -- far beyond your ISP control. The gaming networks can be like a Japanese Shinkansen network running nearly perfectly on the clock.

Often, the ISP lottery is mandatory. That's the way the cookie crumbles.
The recommended esports tricks are:
- Switch ISPs
- Get a gaming VPN.
- Get the gaming-optimized service offering (if one exists).
- Upgrade to business-connection.
- Move to a new location.

You can work your way to helping the ISP improve, and that sometimes helps. Get a gaming collective together in your city and lobby/petition your ISP to offer a gaming-optimized service. Money talks. And that provides some improvements that don't fix all weak links.

Are you prepared to expend a community effort to lobby a local ISP to offer a gaming option? That's a great idea. Do it if you have time and enough friends to work together with you on this. Rise the tide to lift all your boats. I know some ISPs decided to offer a game offering, but only after popular demand.

But lobbying your ISP is often very time consuming. Don't do it solo. Banding 10 local gamers together will make lobbying 100 times more effective. But you need to also provide measurement proof to the ISP, essentially like working on a school paper. Now, if that's a lot of work-- consider that the ISP lottery is easier (occasionally, in some areas, upgrading to a business connection automatically gives you a quality upgrade similar to a high end gaming ISP that includes a VPN).
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Re: internet latency

Postby open » 10 Jun 2019, 00:28

Yes and any hop on the chain can reprioritize or filter. This is honestly the worst part of the net neutrality repeal.
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Re: internet latency

Postby open » 10 Jun 2019, 00:33

And honestly the isps for the most part don't care what you ask or want. Some new ones are rising up but its a monopolistic system and that is in part by GOVERNMENT REGULATION. You can accept it, hop isps if you have a better option, or move. Sometimes that means FAR away. It sucks and it won't be this way forever but for now welcome to reality.
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Re: internet latency

Postby nick4567 » 18 Jul 2019, 17:49

are there ways to measure udp packets coming in late and out of order i was on support with on of my isps tier 3 support and he said if i can provide data theyll have network engineers look at it after i explained the problem
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