Lowest No Tear Input Lag Configuration with no RTSS or VRR

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Roen
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Lowest No Tear Input Lag Configuration with no RTSS or VRR

Post by Roen » 20 Sep 2019, 18:48

Game does not allow RTSS hooks, so no RTSS framerate cap and no Scanline Sync
No Freesync or G-Sync
60 Hz Monitor

Proposal:
Nvidia Control Panel V-Sync: On
In-Game V-Sync: Off
In-Game Framerate Cap: 57 fps
Ensure GPU does not hit 99%

Is that basically all I can do?

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jorimt
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Re: Lowest No Tear Input Lag Configuration with no RTSS or V

Post by jorimt » 21 Sep 2019, 10:35

Pretty much, except you needn't cap to 57 FPS at 60Hz with standalone V-SYNC (a -3 FPS minimum limit only applies to VRR); a 59 FPS limit at 60Hz is enough to prevent V-SYNC input lag in that scenario.
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

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tygeezy
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Re: Lowest No Tear Input Lag Configuration with no RTSS or V

Post by tygeezy » 14 Oct 2019, 16:14

jorimt wrote:Pretty much, except you needn't cap to 57 FPS at 60Hz with standalone V-SYNC (a -3 FPS minimum limit only applies to VRR); a 59 FPS limit at 60Hz is enough to prevent V-SYNC input lag in that scenario.
I always thought it was -2 with vrr. Is this -2 or -3 figure for in game cappers or rtss? Rtss is so accurate that I figured you could cap 1 fps below refresh rate and it would work.

Destiny 2 has a very inaccurate in game capper. At 60 hz (1440 p up-scaled to 4k 60 hz) I actually have to cap at 54 fps to not have tearing. 55 fps tears at bottom of screen, 56+ fps causes tearing everywhere.

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jorimt
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Re: Lowest No Tear Input Lag Configuration with no RTSS or V

Post by jorimt » 14 Oct 2019, 16:45

For VRR, -2 FPS was enough during my original testing for G-SYNC 101. I only recommend "-3" for an extra safe minimum.

But yes, some in-game limiters are unstable enough that the required limit for avoiding the VRR ceiling may vary a bit, especially at lower (physical) refresh rates, like 60Hz.

As you briefly touched upon, the easiest way to test for this is to use G-SYNC + V-SYNC OFF, look for tearing within the VRR range, and then lower the FPS limit frame by frame until it disappears (at which point you can enable G-SYNC + V-SYNC if you want zero possibility of tearing, like during frametimes spikes, for instance).
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Display: Acer Predator XB271HU OS: Windows 10 Pro MB: ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero CPU: i7-8700k GPU: EVGA GTX 1080 Ti FTW3 RAM: 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ @3200MHz

Svan27
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Re: Lowest No Tear Input Lag Configuration with no RTSS or V

Post by Svan27 » 04 Dec 2019, 11:26

jorimt wrote:
21 Sep 2019, 10:35
Pretty much, except you needn't cap to 57 FPS at 60Hz with standalone V-SYNC (a -3 FPS minimum limit only applies to VRR); a 59 FPS limit at 60Hz is enough to prevent V-SYNC input lag in that scenario.
Is this still true now with NULL available? I've searched and found another post by Chief Blur Buster saying "Enable VSYNC ON and enable NULL (NVIDIA Ultra Low Latency).". From what I've read though, NULL won't do anything if the GPU is running under full utilization. Is either option or a combination of the two better?

For reference, I'm on a fixed 60hz tv with a game that won't allow RTSS and I never drop below 77fps with vsync off. Currently running vsync adaptive with Low Latency "On" and it's smooth with no stutters but I'm wondering if the input lag could be better.

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jorimt
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Re: Lowest No Tear Input Lag Configuration with no RTSS or V

Post by jorimt » 04 Dec 2019, 12:07

Svan27 wrote:
04 Dec 2019, 11:26
jorimt wrote:
21 Sep 2019, 10:35
Pretty much, except you needn't cap to 57 FPS at 60Hz with standalone V-SYNC (a -3 FPS minimum limit only applies to VRR); a 59 FPS limit at 60Hz is enough to prevent V-SYNC input lag in that scenario.
Is this still true now with NULL available? I've searched and found another post by Chief Blur Buster saying "Enable VSYNC ON and enable NULL (NVIDIA Ultra Low Latency).". From what I've read though, NULL won't do anything if the GPU is running under full utilization. Is either option or a combination of the two better?

For reference, I'm on a fixed 60hz tv with a game that won't allow RTSS and I never drop below 77fps with vsync off. Currently running vsync adaptive with Low Latency "On" and it's smooth with no stutters but I'm wondering if the input lag could be better.
If your framerate is sustained at your FPS limit 99% of the time, and your system isn't GPU-bound, then yes, it's still true, even will NULL available.

That said, for when/if ever your framerate drops below your limit, you can have "Ultra" enabled (unless you notice more stutter, which you shouldn't, but if you do, keep it at "On"), which will reduce your input lag by up to 1 frame when your system is GPU-bound (as long as the game in question isn't DX12 or Vulkan AND allows external manipulation of the pre-rendered frames queue; some don't, and there's no easy way to tell which).
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Display: Acer Predator XB271HU OS: Windows 10 Pro MB: ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero CPU: i7-8700k GPU: EVGA GTX 1080 Ti FTW3 RAM: 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ @3200MHz

Svan27
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Re: Lowest No Tear Input Lag Configuration with no RTSS or VRR

Post by Svan27 » 04 Dec 2019, 12:11

Perfect, thanks!

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jorimt
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Re: Lowest No Tear Input Lag Configuration with no RTSS or VRR

Post by jorimt » 04 Dec 2019, 13:25

Svan27 wrote:
04 Dec 2019, 12:11
Perfect, thanks!
Not a problem ;)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Display: Acer Predator XB271HU OS: Windows 10 Pro MB: ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero CPU: i7-8700k GPU: EVGA GTX 1080 Ti FTW3 RAM: 32GB G.SKILL TridentZ @3200MHz

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Chief Blur Buster
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Re: Lowest No Tear Input Lag Configuration with no RTSS or VRR

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 04 Dec 2019, 17:19

The “3fps Below” Tip Is Only For FreeSync and G-SYNC

For stutter-free low-latency VSYNC use cases, not using VRR, these are popular methods:

(A) RTSS Scanline Sync + run at a refresh rate below the 0.1% worst frametime
(B) or VSYNC ON + NULL
(C) or Fast Sync + Frame rate cap at or close to Hz
(D) or VSYNC ON + Frame rate cap 0.01 below Hz

See Low-Lag VSYNC ON HOWTO for approach (D). Though now you don’t need to edit the config file, as it now supports editing a fractional cap in the menus.

Games that fluctuates lots below Hz, will not work well with RTSS Scanline Sync method in (A), the use of (A) requires games that almost always runs at framerates beyond Hz, meaning frame rates dips below Hz only ~0.1% of the time.

Enabling NULL will sometimes help, and sometimes not — try both ways, as there can be some interactions with some sync modes.

Highly recommended for blur reduction modes like ULMB, PureXP, DyAc, ELMB, etc.
Also use high-DPI (mouse setting), low-sensitivity (game-setting) to de-stutter all speeds of mouseturns.
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