GPU vs Display scaling (no scaling tick) in NVCP with specific configuration

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forghett
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GPU vs Display scaling (no scaling tick) in NVCP with specific configuration

Post by forghett » 07 Jan 2020, 19:44

Sorry in advance if this is a repetion, but I couldn't really solve this problem because even if i did several trials maybe i'm biased...

So my cfg is a 2080ti coupled with PG279q, what kind of proportion scaling should i set?

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Re: GPU vs Display scaling (no scaling tick) in NVCP with specific configuration

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 08 Jan 2020, 06:08

GPU scaling tends to be simplest because on modern cards it's now practically lagless (sub-millisecond) and provides consistency across different monitors, which may or may not support scaling.

Given insufficient information -- the proportion you want depends on the game you play. Whether you need highest quality or highest frame rate. Adjust to preference.
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forghett
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Re: GPU vs Display scaling (no scaling tick) in NVCP with specific configuration

Post by forghett » 08 Jan 2020, 09:51

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
08 Jan 2020, 06:08
GPU scaling tends to be simplest because on modern cards it's now practically lagless (sub-millisecond) and provides consistency across different monitors, which may or may not support scaling.

Given insufficient information -- the proportion you want depends on the game you play. Whether you need highest quality or highest frame rate. Adjust to preference.
First of all, thanks for the replay, i'm really confused about these settings.

I can't understand how type of scaling (full screen, rescaled, noscaling ecc..) and way of scaling (gpu or display) can influence quality.
So my understanding is:
-Theoretically display scaling should be the one with less lag, even if modern gpus have barely noticiable scaling lag.
-What about scaling type ?

I prefer (speaking in NVCP terms) the maximum "competitive" performance when I play fps games (such as OW/CSGO/APEX...), but for other games i aim to quality. So i tune manually NVCP 3D application settings for these fps games, expecially according to yours fantastic test (and mine experience ofc)

:arrow: The point is, I play all my games in monitor native res mode (2560x1440@144Hz, no OC), having the components listed above, what are the pros and cons of scaling type and scaling driver?

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Re: GPU vs Display scaling (no scaling tick) in NVCP with specific configuration

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 08 Jan 2020, 15:21

forghett wrote:
08 Jan 2020, 09:51
I can't understand how type of scaling (full screen, rescaled, noscaling ecc..) and way of scaling (gpu or display) can influence quality.
So my understanding is:
-Theoretically display scaling should be the one with less lag, even if modern gpus have barely noticiable scaling lag.
-What about scaling type ?
This is outdated information. In the past it was reliably true that displays had less scaling lag.
This is no longer reliably true for the last several years.

But very frequently GPU scaling has less lag nowadays on the fastest GPUs.

Much of the time, when both is lagless, there's no difference.

Fundamentally, there is scientifically no difference between display scaling and GPU scaling if implemented with the exactly same logic (practically lagless line-buffered scaling in a beam-raced manner). Even if line-buffered is not done, and full frame buffer is done instead, the fastest GPUs can scale a whole 1440p framebuffer in approximately 1/10,000th of a second -- all the 1000 and 2000 series NVIDIA GPUs do that in the -60 -70 and -80 classifications. The slower GPUs will still take less than 1/1000th a second. Now, some of them do real time line-buffered scaling at the GPU output level, so that is just exactly as lagless as display scaling.

If you've got 1060, 1070, 1080, 2070, 2080 or similarly fast GPU....

Best case scenario, lagless versus lagless.
Worst case, comparing unknown-lag display scaler versus predictably fast GPU scaling.

That's circa 2020 scenario, not outdated 2010 scenario.

The memory bandwidth and fillrate of the latest GPUs is so incredbly fast, that even full-framebuffer GPU scaling is darn near zero lag nowadays, but provides more predictability.

TL;DR: Modern GPU scaling at the high end GPU level, is more consistent guarantee. Monitors have more varying lag in GPU scaling (brand X versus Y can have hugely different scaling lag). But with GPU scaling, you get peace of mind of knowing lower scaling lag that is consistent regardless of what monitor you use, in scaled resolution being virtually identical in lag to original resolution. Remember: This is not yesterday's slow GPU scaling.
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latin00032
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Re: GPU vs Display scaling (no scaling tick) in NVCP with specific configuration

Post by latin00032 » 19 Jan 2022, 10:07

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
08 Jan 2020, 15:21
forghett wrote:
08 Jan 2020, 09:51
I can't understand how type of scaling (full screen, rescaled, noscaling ecc..) and way of scaling (gpu or display) can influence quality.
So my understanding is:
-Theoretically display scaling should be the one with less lag, even if modern gpus have barely noticiable scaling lag.
-What about scaling type ?
This is outdated information. In the past it was reliably true that displays had less scaling lag.
This is no longer reliably true for the last several years.

But very frequently GPU scaling has less lag nowadays on the fastest GPUs.

Much of the time, when both is lagless, there's no difference.

Fundamentally, there is scientifically no difference between display scaling and GPU scaling if implemented with the exactly same logic (practically lagless line-buffered scaling in a beam-raced manner). Even if line-buffered is not done, and full frame buffer is done instead, the fastest GPUs can scale a whole 1440p framebuffer in approximately 1/10,000th of a second -- all the 1000 and 2000 series NVIDIA GPUs do that in the -60 -70 and -80 classifications. The slower GPUs will still take less than 1/1000th a second. Now, some of them do real time line-buffered scaling at the GPU output level, so that is just exactly as lagless as display scaling.

If you've got 1060, 1070, 1080, 2070, 2080 or similarly fast GPU....

Best case scenario, lagless versus lagless.
Worst case, comparing unknown-lag display scaler versus predictably fast GPU scaling.

That's circa 2020 scenario, not outdated 2010 scenario.

The memory bandwidth and fillrate of the latest GPUs is so incredbly fast, that even full-framebuffer GPU scaling is darn near zero lag nowadays, but provides more predictability.

TL;DR: Modern GPU scaling at the high end GPU level, is more consistent guarantee. Monitors have more varying lag in GPU scaling (brand X versus Y can have hugely different scaling lag). But with GPU scaling, you get peace of mind of knowing lower scaling lag that is consistent regardless of what monitor you use, in scaled resolution being virtually identical in lag to original resolution. Remember: This is not yesterday's slow GPU scaling.
It seems like gpu scaling doesn't add lag based on what you are saying if you have a medium to high end pc setup.

When I try to google this issue, it seems like 90 percent of the comments are of the belief that gpu scaling adds lag. Some comments say it adds a frame of lag. Some say it adds 1ms +/-.

You are one of the few people that suggests it barely adds lag. I tried testing both out to see if I can feel a difference. Sometimes I think I can tell and sometimes I think it is in my head.

I might have to just do so some side by side testing myself to see if I really notice a difference.

ALIEN_I_AM
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Re: GPU vs Display scaling (no scaling tick) in NVCP with specific configuration

Post by ALIEN_I_AM » 10 Apr 2022, 06:26

I can confirm that GPU Scaling is faster in my case for Apex Legends, and i found out by "accident" after using RSR with the latest AMD Drivers because it sets GPU SCALING automatically and its needed, scaling 900p 768p and 720p up to 1080p but i also tried 16:10 1680x1050 stretched Full Panel, with RSR its "upscaled to 1728x1080 (even if you dont have custom resolution set up manually) when using Preserve Ratio and up to 1920x1080 "stretched" when using Full Panel in the GPU Options.

On Native Resolution, where no scaling happens, its logically the same.

But thanks to Chief Blurmaster Mastermind UltraLord GodKingImperator, that he gave me the final "True" on this "IF" Question that was hurting my brain for days now and cost me hours of my lifetime to find out :D

have a nice day,...

cDanks90
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Joined: 20 Apr 2022, 14:02

Re: GPU vs Display scaling (no scaling tick) in NVCP with specific configuration

Post by cDanks90 » 20 Apr 2022, 14:09

So let me get this straight.

I have no scaling ticked and am playing in native 1440p 240hz w/ g sync / v sync and reflex on (capped at 225, input lag feels great but I'm trying to fully optimize) on a Samsung Odyssey g7 32 inch.

Should I have No Scaling ticked, with Scaling performed on GPU and the override box checked in the NVCP to fully optimize my input lag?

I have tested with scaling performed on display, as well as the override box checked and unchecked... and there seems to be a minor change. But I'm looking for best performance and lowest input lag ... period. I have everything else nearly optimized, this is the one thing I'm looking for a definitive answer on the internet and a lot of my research comes with mixed reviews.

Would love to put this to rest once and for all!

(also... is the no scaling option the best option for input lag when playing at native resolution?)

Tuhin Lavania
Posts: 59
Joined: 21 Feb 2022, 09:26

Re: GPU vs Display scaling (no scaling tick) in NVCP with specific configuration

Post by Tuhin Lavania » 21 Apr 2022, 03:07

cDanks90 wrote:
20 Apr 2022, 14:09
So let me get this straight.

I have no scaling ticked and am playing in native 1440p 240hz w/ g sync / v sync and reflex on (capped at 225, input lag feels great but I'm trying to fully optimize) on a Samsung Odyssey g7 32 inch.

Should I have No Scaling ticked, with Scaling performed on GPU and the override box checked in the NVCP to fully optimize my input lag?

I have tested with scaling performed on display, as well as the override box checked and unchecked... and there seems to be a minor change. But I'm looking for best performance and lowest input lag ... period. I have everything else nearly optimized, this is the one thing I'm looking for a definitive answer on the internet and a lot of my research comes with mixed reviews.

Would love to put this to rest once and for all!

(also... is the no scaling option the best option for input lag when playing at native resolution?)
I have the same monitor. Odyssey G7 27 inches. What ive found weird is when playig Halo Infinite, the input lag seems a bit higher when playing at native resolution of the monitor. So i have it lowered down to the bottom ( some 1367*763 ) and the input lag feels great. better than that on native resolution. I have no scaling marked with display scaling in the nvcp.

dudechester
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Joined: 08 Aug 2022, 21:35

Re: GPU vs Display scaling (no scaling tick) in NVCP with specific configuration

Post by dudechester » 08 Aug 2022, 21:42

Hey Guys,

I've made a recent discovery with the NEO G9 Ultra wide display after days of testing trying to fix this.

In some games, the screen would flash to total black for a split second. (Extremely terrible when in the middle of a tricky situation in your game...)

I noticed this only happened using HDR mode, but to add to the scaling forum from the past HERE IS A RESOLUTION based on what you've spoke of above that FIXED 100% my black screen problem.

1. Without HDR on the problem didn't exist btw
2. With HDR the Screen flicked black every minute or so...

I tried turning Scaling to "No Scaling" and BAM the occasional black screens mid game were no more, and obviously the game still looked the same since the resolution was set to native in game :) HDR does NOT like aspect ration scaling it seems, and despite it looking exactly the same due to being native resolution, the errors DO NOT exist with scaling off.

Hope that helps other users that find this page who are also using the very cool Neo G9.
There's so much guess work out there like (Try redownloading the drivers) but this is definitely the resolution for this particular issue :)
Thanks! :idea:

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