[Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

[Chief Blur Buster]

Very interesting -- if you see this happen again, catch some more samples, and try to YouTube-capture at a higher resolution. The YouTube compression makes it a bit hard to see the stutter, but I see the frametime graphs go messy simultaneously with dirty power.

Mind you, I wish there was a lot more lab tools wired into that install to catch a reliable trace of how it all Rube Goldbergs out (and whether it's a genuine catch -- occasionally it's the GPU power-consumption modulations triggering the dirty-power alarm, rather than vice versa). A simultaneous power analyzer graph on the power would be interesting.

That said, certainly a warning flag of power-based influences to game performance.

[Conan]

Chief, is it possible to, or should i rephrase; why is it so hard to find a testing method if we know which part of equation we are testing?
Is it possible to make a compilation of things that DO and POSSIBLY increase input lag and various ways how to minimize it, including gear that makes it possible. Some 101 perhaps. You have the most knowledge by far. Ill help tell me what to do

[Nawafwabs]

Hello guys

This is last update i think

I bought corsair psu and I compare it to my evga psu

Here is the result

Old Evga psu ( high emi )



https://youtu.be/FuI1uCcFuVY


New Corsair psu ( no emi )

https://youtu.be/Qregvk8WnSI

This test without any filter or power condition or anything

interesting, if I can ask you, are your problems with input lag now 100% fixed with corsair hx1200 psu ? and also you do not need to use any power conditioner or filter anymore, only corsair psu and everything is ok now?


is also interesting and not maybe very big surprise because high end premium psu like corsair hx1200 have much better components for power regulation and filtering but also for emi filtering, for example look at this dedicated emi filter on corsair AX1200i psu :




(pic taken from techpowerup review of corsair ax1200i psu here: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/cors ... 00i/5.html)


quote from review: "The AC receptacle incorporates a server grade EMI line filter which includes all necessary components, one X, two Y capacitors and a CM choke. We find more transient filtering components on the main PCB, namely three CM chokes, two X caps, two pairs of Y caps and an MOV (Metal Oxide Varistor), since a two stage transient filter is required in a desktop/server PSU.

so maybe a premium psu like this eliminates need for power conditioner? or at least helps greatly with this kind of problem...


anyway please give us update on your situation and if corsair psu fixed problem 100%

that psu i bought was very good and high quality not like evga

problem fixed

but dont buy psu if you didnt test your home

if your home emi 1600mv then psu useless here

[Chief Blur Buster]

Chief, is it possible to, or should i rephrase; why is it so hard to find a testing method if we know which part of equation we are testing?
Is it possible to make a compilation of things that DO and POSSIBLY increase input lag and various ways how to minimize it, including gear that makes it possible. Some 101 perhaps. You have the most knowledge by far. Ill help tell me what to do

The universe is so vast, it's like trying to explain Einstein Theory of Relativity, or solving Life, The Universe, and Everything.

I do my best to speciality of temporal display mechanics (GtG, MPRT, refresh, lag, HFR, strobing, blur, etc) as part of the Blur Busters mission -- but it's still a gigantic universe of complexity that is extremely hard to demystify.

However, if an experienced website guest writer (knowledgeable in "Better Than 60Hz" concepts) has some knowledge of this, I'd love to reach out for a collaborative article. I'm focussed on other super-niche content and initiatives, but am always looking for opportunity to expand the periphery of the Blur Busters universe.

[Calypto]

Very interesting -- if you see this happen again, catch some more samples, and try to YouTube-capture at a higher resolution. The YouTube compression makes it a bit hard to see the stutter, but I see the frametime graphs go messy simultaneously with dirty power.

Mind you, I wish there was a lot more lab tools wired into that install to catch a reliable trace of how it all Rube Goldbergs out (and whether it's a genuine catch -- occasionally it's the GPU power-consumption modulations triggering the dirty-power alarm, rather than vice versa). A simultaneous power analyzer graph on the power would be interesting.

That said, certainly a warning flag of power-based influences to game performance.

That was the worst I've ever had, otherwise it's the usual low smoothness/high input lag observed by others. The video was as high resolution as it could be on my 1920x1080 monitor, it's just that Youtube has garbage video quality.

[dervu]

One more thing about my setup. There was one more thing to it. One prong from backplate was sticking inside metal thing separating USB ports. Ethernet cable running near power cables was probably magnifying this issue.

Before removing prong: Switching between Spread Spectrum On and Off I could feel difference in mouse feel
After removing prong: Switching between Spread Spectrum On and Off I can not feel any difference.
TCP retransmits went drastically down, measured yesterday: 0 retransmits through 4 hours during heavy internet usage.

Now mouse feels somewhere between fast and slow feeling, shots connect even more and games feel even more smooth and consistent.

[Chief Blur Buster]

One more thing about my setup. There was one more thing to it. One prong from backplate was sticking inside metal thing separating USB ports. Ethernet cable running near power cables was probably magnifying this issue.

Before removing prong: Switching between Spread Spectrum On and Off I could feel difference in mouse feel
After removing prong: Switching between Spread Spectrum On and Off I can not feel any difference.
TCP retransmits went drastically down, measured yesterday: 0 retransmits through 4 hours during heavy internet usage.

Now mouse feels somewhere between fast and slow feeling, shots connect even more and games feel even more smooth and consistent.

I'm not surprised Spread Spectrum behaviors changing under "interference-duress" conditions.

Interference that is almost strong enough to crash a computer -- but not quite strong enough -- can create a settings-change-sensitivity like this. Signal much closer to the noise floor are more prone to error-correcting behaviors, and when the noise floor gets raised because of interference... Then you start to get measurable setting-change differences, where non existed before!

Now, it's best to have evidence. Beautiful visualizations & graphs that correspond to lagfeel changes. The great news is I am creating a TestUFO Mouse Test that will visualize this better -- you MIGHT be able to see the TestUFO Mouse Test change colors with the Spread Spectrum change, and be able to post evidence. Do you mind if I email/PM you, when it's ready, so you can test this unusual condition to see if it's actually visualizable in a web browser based mouse test? (Evidence capture).

It would be way cool if we had some kick-ass visualization tools (like 2D color coded visualizations of error correcting latency behaviors throughout the system internals), to watch all those "Deaths by a Thousand Cuts" latencies build up (the million nanoseconds combining into milliseconds). This will pull the science-bits out of the voodoo mess, but it's a challenge.

[Strongz]

I did this test 2 days and i check it and it confirmed that the emi is the main issue

if you think power condition will fix it 100% this is wrong

You need to fix the hole house or you face this delay all your life or maybe you move to other house and do emi test over 24 hours to make sure not effect by other things


https://youtu.be/wGfhfayYfHU

I am Spanish-speaking and sometimes I don't understand very well when google translates for me. I have the same symptoms that almost everyone with this problem with the difference that I take my PC to other houses and it works just as bad, I sold my PC and bought a new one thinking it could be a hardware problem but the problem came back, I changed components 1 by 1 and the symptoms did not go away. Now my theory is that my house does some damage that wherever I take it will have the problem. Now I wanted to ask you what you mean by fixing the problem or you will always live with it. I know it is a problem of electromagnetic interference and now I will install an earth bar to see if this solves my problem or what you recommend doing.

[deama]

Anyone tried a UPS double conversion topology? I did some looking and double conversion are the best for power filtration so was wondering if anyone tried it here.

[Nawafwabs]

Anyone tried a UPS double conversion topology? I did some looking and double conversion are the best for power filtration so was wondering if anyone tried it here.

We tried it before no success