[Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

[Unixko]

People seem to forget that they all come together when online games are played, they love each other as one, enough to share the common mind of the Apex arena, here and there. In this mind, the body is often forgotten and the stresses and light bending properties of the minds infinite potential are felt and experienced as lag, packet loss, code:net, code leaf, etc.

Do not forget that you are alive in this space and time. Here, time and gravity are both related and will affect the properties of electrons in electronics by the mere act of observing.

Time runs differently when under the influence of anxiety for example, try playing the game after drinking coffee. The anxiety will scream and your experience of the game will be taken from the game and brought to the time and reference of your body in the physical realm. This makes it seem that everything is against you, from aim to lag and dying behind walls. If you're really angry, packet loss will make you rubber band for example.

Similarly, when in love, a sense of joy and freedom is experienced. This can be described as a peak experience felt as a "good game" with many kills. Many Preds appear very drunk on their streams. Could you guess why?

The thing that makes Apex different from many FPS games such as call of duty of battlefield is that you have one life only - you do not respawn. People guard their life at all costs, with this comes tension, anxiety and stress - biological systems designed to keep you alive. The games do therefore have more gravity as the perception has changed to adapt to this horrible warzone. As a human, the biggest virtue that we have is the life that we have. We forget how important it is and what it means to be alive. The power and significance of being alive means that two stubborn titans will when faced against each other, clash into one another like two universes. The problem is that these universes interact in one common interface.

Get to know you mind people, its easy... Nicola Tesla allegedly said that the gift of mental power comes from God, Devine Being, and if we concentrate our minds on that truth, we become in tune with this great power.

give me number on yours dealer

[mello]

i ask myself right now why there still no tools for gamers that shows what the issue is and what is going wrong...
it's crazy that such things still don't exist...

Gaming is still a niche market compared to everything else.

the server probably must have some data and can tell more about hitreg, delay, desync and give more accurate parameters and answers on issues that some players experience...

No such measurement tools are available. I'm not aware of any tools (including packet analyzers like Wireshark) that are able to "catch" and present this issue occuring with numerics and graphs. The closest thing to it, that i know of, is "choke" (in net_graph) in CS GO & CS 1.6.

Choke is lost packets of information sent between you and the server. Choke basically means that your computer is sending your players position, and what he does (shoot, move, nade, knife) to the server, and its not getting there. Counter Strike Source default is to send your players actions to the server 30 times a second. Choke is caused by two things:

- Your computer is sending too many packets to the server per second. If you try to send 100 commands to the server per second, and the connection between you and the server can only accept 40, you are going to be getting 60 choke. This will make you SUCK in game, none of your shots will register, and only 40% of the things you try to make your player do will be done, if at all.
- The server is not able to read all of the information being sent to it. This can be caused by network lag at the server, or CPU lag at the server. The client cannot control this, but can accomodate for it by lowering their cmdrate and updaterate

---

It has to do with internet connection and the correlation between your download/upload speed. If you have too high rates your internet can not upload all the information needed and there is a choke in the upload to the server. Your rates are really important to avoid clogging up your internet connection and making your game-play smooth. There is no point trying to get 20,000 Bytes from the server per second if this means you cannot UPLOAD your gaming data to the server! How do you know when it is right? Well start with the default rate, and move it up until you see consistent low choke or loss in net_graph display.

These are the definitions from the net. They are not entirely accurate though. Choke always spikes in action, which means that your own packets are being dropped & ignored for some reason by the server. The game should work perfectly on default rates & interp, but when it doesn't, everything will be messed up with all the known issues occuring. You can try to "fix" choke partially by lowering your rates and changing interp to a higher value. But this is only a trade off and in the end you will still have less accurate information (player positions, movement, shots etc.) than other players who can play on max/default rates without any issues.

This basically means that netcode parameters that you are using as a client are not always good for you, as your own connection cannot utilize & process them correctly. To be honest, this problem would be much less severe if the games netcode would be fluid and change itself based on "quality" of your internet connection. As mentioned above, when you obviousy have network problems, you can change certain values to lower ones (but increase interp value) and the gaming will regain some of its smoothness. But you are trading this for less frequent & less accurate updates to & from the server, which again, puts in a disadvantage, but this time in a different way.

i'm not a game developer but i'm sure that this guys probably know what some players suffer and why...
that all must be probably somewhere visible on server...

They wouldn't be able to fix that. At best, they could only introduce some kind of AI network analyzer, which would change netcode on the client side based on the "quality" of the connection which is detected at that time. In the end, all players would end up with fluid netcode, which would only slightly improve this problem, but not fix it.

but instead there thousand of topics, forums, posts and videos on youtube that show cleary a issue and some of the players have this issue all day 24/7 permanent but there 0 solutions or someone who can tell what is wrong.

This could potentially be solved by the ISP's by providing a software, which would detect launched games and allow "unrestricted" tunnel & packet flow during online games. But again, no ISP cares about gaming and they guarantee nothing when it comes gaming. This is because gaming is still a niche market compared to everything else.

i just think that this all is sad and the real reason why no one cares is probably because we are an minority or there many players who don't think and know that something is wrong and they just keep playing but for players like me that is a no go what happens right now to my online gaming experience...

I doubt it is a minority, many casuals might just not be aware of the problems that they are having. Also, this issue occurs on a vast spectrum in severity, meaning that some players might only have occasional problems while others might have these problems nearly all the time.

it just makes me quit online gaming.

Try every ISP possible. It doesn't really matter if its mobile or not.
You only need to get lucky and find an ISP that does not have this problem within its own network.

[Chief Blur Buster]

it just makes me quit online gaming.

Try every ISP possible. It doesn't really matter if its mobile or not.
You only need to get lucky and find an ISP that does not have this problem within its own network.

And corporate ISP plans.
And multiple gaming VPNs -- some had 30ms reduction in lag!

They can help sometimes.

Create a spreadsheet or well-organized notebook of all possible options, install costs, first-month costs, contract-cancellation penalty fees, combinations, and track your figurative roulette wheel spins carefully. Don't make assumptions, I've seen some people in one location get better CS:GO with LTE than FTTH. Whereas one person found their VDSL connection worked better than cable, or vice-versa. Corporate ISP plan also sometimes made a difference (overpay 3x for your connection). Etc.

The cost of ISP roulette can reach $500-1000 for some, so save up money!
(many ISPs, corporate ISPs, multiple VPNs, high performance rooftop LTE antenna, etc).

This is not a casual move, treat this like vacation planning, tax planning, or renovation planning. Costs, costs, costs, track, track, track! You will burn money, but sometimes you succeed.

Obviously, it's a fog of many overlapping causes (computer performance and network performance), but it is very common for problems to be the network connection.

[Boop]

it just makes me quit online gaming.

Try every ISP possible. It doesn't really matter if its mobile or not.
You only need to get lucky and find an ISP that does not have this problem within its own network.

And corporate ISP plans.
And multiple gaming VPNs -- some had 30ms reduction in lag!

They can help sometimes.

Another issue that can be solved by using a VPN is when an ISP sends out of order UDP packets to a game server.

I spent quite some time troubleshooting issues with jitter and packet loss to servers hosted in AWS. I eventually found threads of many Fortnite players (FN is hosted in AWS) reporting packet loss on my ISP's forums. The ISP would only perform basic troubleshooting and just send a tech out to their homes to tell them there is no problem with their network.

I took all of this information and escalated the issue to the ISP executives through a friend. Epic Games was eventually contacted to help troubleshoot the problem. Shortly thereafter, Epic Games posted this thread on Reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/FortNiteBR/com ... ical_post/

TLDR: Unreal Engine was discarding packets that were received out of order!

I confirmed this was the issue all along by creating an EC2 Instance in AWS (Virtual Server) and performing some network tests using iPerf. The logs from iPerf showed there was 0% packet loss but the packets were received out of order!

The changes made to the Unreal Engine by Epic Games made a big difference and the ordering issue with my ISP eventually went away.

[ffs_]

was this video shared here previously?

https://youtu.be/yDYSu-TU25w?t=23

the author shows two different players performing the same motion with mouse at most likely the same settings and there is some real life footage at the end

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7358

[f1ndus]

hello guys, in my case i think its coming from internet cable/router i dont know exactly. I have the same symptoms like you.. i tried UPS, new components, new PC some emi filters for pc but with no change, except for monitor, when i changed monitor my game goes smooth without any lag for 3days. Last days i testing a lot but i have some idea, why i getting this input lag.. My internet is half optic and cable from internet is going throught my street, near to radio broadcast of my village and close to Transmission tower and i think that cable taking interference and going directly to my PC. Now i lost a lot many for ups and other stuff so i need littlebit save up money. But i have idea what to do maybe..

I want buy metal switch instead of plastic router what i using.. and attach him on cable with emi/rfi filter
I want buy some Lan RFI/emi filter ( )
I want buy SSTP Cat 8 lan cable from switch to my PC.. ( )
I want buy tripple shielded displayport cable for monitor
I want buy AL foil Tape and do with it that every cable going in to my PC except for mouse.



and buy new monitor + pc and start it with all this things and hope everything will be okay.

What do you think guys, can this interference going from LAN cable or router? especially when it comes from outside near radio or electric tower..

[f1ndus]

i wanted send you all important screens of this problem but i cant becouse its not allowed on this forum ::/

[mello]

Another issue that can be solved by using a VPN is when an ISP sends out of order UDP packets to a game server.

I spent quite some time troubleshooting issues with jitter and packet loss to servers hosted in AWS. I eventually found threads of many Fortnite players (FN is hosted in AWS) reporting packet loss on my ISP's forums. The ISP would only perform basic troubleshooting and just send a tech out to their homes to tell them there is no problem with their network.

I took all of this information and escalated the issue to the ISP executives through a friend. Epic Games was eventually contacted to help troubleshoot the problem. Shortly thereafter, Epic Games posted this thread on Reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/FortNiteBR/com ... ical_post/

TLDR: Unreal Engine was discarding packets that were received out of order!

I confirmed this was the issue all along by creating an EC2 Instance in AWS (Virtual Server) and performing some network tests using iPerf. The logs from iPerf showed there was 0% packet loss but the packets were received out of order!

The changes made to the Unreal Engine by Epic Games made a big difference and the ordering issue with my ISP eventually went away.

WOW, this looks like something that i have been shouting about... for years ? This literally confirms what i said and suspected all along, based on how games are behaving when network performance issues are present. Although i have been using VPN's before, like WTFast and few others (problem has not been solved by any of them), i haven't really tried gaming from multiple different locations (regardless of ping) or testing VPN's in an extensive manner. Based on what you are saying, connecting to a certain server & ISP (as VPN providers have large number of servers in different countries) and getting lucky with the ISP that does not have this problem, could actually solve this issue !

[nuggify]

WOW, this looks like something that i have been shouting about... for years ? This literally confirms what i said and suspected all along, based on how games are behaving when network performance issues are present. Although i have been using VPN's before, like WTFast and few others (problem has not been solved by any of them), i haven't really tried gaming from multiple different locations (regardless of ping) or testing VPN's in an extensive manner. Based on what you are saying, connecting to a certain server & ISP (as VPN providers have large number of servers in different countries) and getting lucky with the ISP that does not have this problem, could actually solve this issue !

Amazing, you went years suspecting its internet without actually looking into it or checking that you are getting out of order packets. Well wish it was that easy for me. Wish it was also just one game. As Boop stated it was an issue with Unreal engine and how Epic had networked that. Seems it was also a problem on their (Epics) side if they were able to find a solution. And no, sorry it does not confirm anything you have been shouting about. In order for that, you actually need to go gather the data and show that you are getting out of order packets. Then do the same for your mobile connection (the one without these issues) and compare.

But unfortunately this thread is not at all about any problems relating to just specific games/engines. It states in the title it is power/EMI. It is system wide input issues. Too bad you have a reading comprehension problem and cannot get that through your head. Refer to the OP again please.

You seem to just parrot this idea that most of these threads on these input lag/desync problems are related to this elusive ISP issue and not a power issue. And yet many, many of the very people posting them have tried multiple ISPs, verified its not just online lag etc. Don't you think if it was related to ISP that switching out all that gear and trying another ISP would fix it, at least in one instance for these folks? How many ISPs have you even tried until you found out mobile does not have the issues?

[Unixko]

what mello says sound logical and makes sense but my case is the most weird thing i ever experienced and i still don't know what this could be...

like i cleary see a pattern here where i can play 2-3 matches and drop many kills and then something immediately degrades after and i start to lose only...die more than do kills...and with every match i can feel and see that it only gets worse and more absurd the more i play...
and this all is just beyond everything i ever saw in my gaming online life.

i observed this pattern or let's call it consistency many times and this all still happens after building new pc and change isp's, routers and even on mobile 4g isp...

sometimes i have this feel that someone trolls me hard with this but i know that there must be some logic or numbers somewhere that could explain this phenome of performance degrading or whatever it is...


so im right now between nuggify and mello but i think that the truth is something completely else...
maybe we have different issues and experiences on games...
my issue somehow affects online gaming and ruins it completely for me.

i don't rly believe that isp's cause this and i don't believe that it is emi or power stuff..
there need more better detailed proofs on that.

but i believe that there players who experience offline and online delays, desync, heavy models and more weird changes that seems appear out of nowhere...

degraded after 2-3matches? wait when this anomaly degraded to level when it become degraded since you start pc and become worse and worse and worse then you realize everybody has same problem and its not internet related