[Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Separate area for niche lag issues including unexpected causes and/or electromagnetic interference (ECC = retransmits = lag). Interference (EMI, EMF) of all kinds (wired, wireless, external, internal, environment, bad component) can cause error-correction latencies like a bad modem connection. Troubleshooting may require university degree. Your lag issue is likely not EMI. Please read this before entering sub-forum.
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This subforum is for advanced users only. This separate area is for niche or unexpected lag issues such as electromagnetic interference (EMI, EMF, electrical, radiofrequency, etc). Interference of all kinds (wired, wireless, external, internal, environment, bad component) can cause error-correction (ECC) latencies like a bad modem connection, except internally in a circuit. ECC = retransmits = lag. Troubleshooting may require university degree. Your lag issue is likely not EMI.
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Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 21 Oct 2020, 14:27

bijay135 wrote:
21 Oct 2020, 04:45
Good luck to you guys on finding a proper fix for this and thank you for reading.
EMI is so astoundingly complex
If you engineer electronics & own an oscilloscope, you already know all the lingo about noise -- and signal to noise -- and properly shielding.

EMI can look like pratically any pattern (random noise, patterned noise, etc) at all kinds of frequencies (low Hz, mid Hz, high Hz, or all the above), at all kinds of bandwidth spreads (narrow bandwidth, broad bandwidth, multiple separate narrow bandwidth areas).

Metaphorically.... For the layperson: Think of all kinds of audio noise, some will drown out speech and others do not -- EMI is much like that except at a far wider range of frequencies. You can have jet-engine-loud EMI but only at a specific frequency. Or a car-rumble-style EMI that covers a large part of spectrum. Or a beep-style EMI affecting 3 or 4 different frequencies. Metaphorically, pretend that EMI as 0 Hz through 1 terahertz "sound" (many orders of magnitude beyond 20Hz to 18,000 Hz sound) that can be drowned out by various noise patterns. You could have 500 decibel equivalent of EMI (more than a billion times louder than a jet engine, supernova-loud EMI or EMP-loud EMI) at a specific frequency, or just merely 50 decibel-equivalent of EMI (like outdoor wind interfering with a person whispering). Now, a Farday cage is like a very noise-proofed chamber.... but a big explosion outside will still get sound into the noiseproofed chamber. A Farday cage will always be leaky to sufficiently-loud EMI at specific frequencies that the Faraday cage cannot perfectly block. Just like noiseproofing can't be perfect to the world's loudest sounds, a Faraday Cage cannot be perfect to the world's loudest EMI at all possible electromagnetic frequencies in the entire electromagnetic spectrum.

Sometimes only a specific EMI affects only a specific system (but not a different one). And yet another EMI pattern only affects a different system (but not that system).

The big problem is that EMI fixes are difficult to do in a catchall manner. Manufacturers try to Faraday-cage some components (metal shells etc) but there's so much unprotected paths to worry about sometimes -- some paths thought to be non-EMI-critical but ends up being EMI-sensitive in an EMI spectrum that they never tested for, etc.... All kinds of leakages into a system. As systems go faster and faster, they can inadvertently become more and more EMI sensitive to new spectrums.

Just like earplugs versus a noiseproofed building versus a room 1000 feet underground -- you can have varying levels of EMI protection f various kinds (simple thin metal shielding, leaky Faraday cages, heavy bank-safe Faraday cages, distant EMI-quiet location in Antartica like they do for the Neutrino detectors, etc).

The truth is that EMI is a big problem for computers nowadays, but it's a "1% problem" that is very hard to troubleshoot. Even 1% of 1 million computers is still 10,000 computers unexpectedly slowed down by EMI. Who knows what the exact % is, but it's somewhere between "Product recall" threshold and "Beta testers didn't test for it" threshold.

Simpler things like lifting the computer 2 feet above the floor might help -- because there was a hidden 10,000 volt transformer in a maintenance floor below the computer room. Or that the problem is caused by a laundry room behind the wall, with powerful motors injecting a big EMI field a few inches through the wall to your computer flush against wall. Or the EMI is coming from a huge transformer across the street. Or you have high voltage power transmission lines in your backyard. Or your neighbour's microwave is defective (leaky). Etc. Who knows?

So, "Finding A Proper Fix" is extremely hard. There's no real universal fix for EMI because of the above. But you can fix some kinds of EMI (that the manufacturers didn't fully design against), the more common kinds of EMI problems that are be broadcoast over only a few feet or a single meter.

I have a semi-universal computer-offgridding fix if you have about $1000 to spend. Here goes:

Costly Brute Force Fix: Battery-Power your 500-Watt Gaming Tower!
A brute fix is to isolate the computer by powering it off a battery such as Jackery 1000 amp-hour Portable Power Station (5-star Amazon rating!) to put your computer completely offgrid. That ~$1000 lithium-battery Jackery can power an RTX 2080 gaming computer for about 2-3 hours completely offgrid (monitor + PC at 300 watts for about 3 hours for 1000-watt-hours, or a 500 watt gaming rig for 2 hours), if your electricity is particularly EMI-dirty. The wonders of the Tesla dropping prices in lithium batteries to $62/kWh by year 2030 will be a big boon for the ability to run computers away from an EMI-dirty power company -- if you are particularly desparate. The electricity coming from the Jackery is not 100% perfectly clean but it's much cleaner than many mains power grids in many countries (very EMI-dirty), and can be vastly superior to a power conditioner / inline UPS / etc. Think of the Jackery as a big cellphone power bank for a gaming computer, combined with lifting all equipment/cables at least 2 feet away from all walls & all floors & all other appliances (to get away from hidden wires/transformers in floors and walls) + don't use a glass window on your gaming tower (full metal box) + premium shielded cabling + avoid Ethernet via using 802.11ax WiFi 6 with antenna minimum 2 feet away from your computer equipment + good PC build components like well rated 80Plus Platnium power supply with low-EMI ratings. Combined, all of this, can be a reasonable "brute-force fix" for >90% of EMI. Won't help your Internet latency problems (bigger cause of problems) but can help EMI-related problems.

Brute Force Off Grid Computer EMI Fix
1. 1000 watt Jackery battery
2. Computer & Monitor plugged into Jackery battery
3. Metal cover on computer tower side (not the common transparent window); slot covers installed on unused PCI-X slots
4. 80Plus Platinum power supply in computer with good review (good noise rejection)
5. Well rated computer components (components can be internal sources of EMI)
6. Monitor at least 2-3 feet away MINIMUM from computer tower, use a wide desk (just in case EMI interference coming from monitor)
7. Computer tower on your desk, not on floor (just in case EMI source below floor)
8. No cables far below desk level. (just in case EMI source below floor)
9. Desk at least 2 feet away from back wall (just in case EMI source behind wall)
10. Completely offgrid computer. No power! No Ethernet!
11. Use WiFi 5 or preferably WiFi 6 for low-latency gaming WiFi (~2ms stable full duplex; Ethernet-quality)
12. No Ethernet cables; Keep inches of separation between power wires and data wires
13. No WiFi routers within 5 meters. Don't plug WiFi router into the same Jackery as the computer.
14. Use USB3 WiFi antenna (not on-motherboard WiFI; can be EMI source) + put USB3 WiFi antenna 6 feet away from computer & monitor (use a side table)
15. If you find large appliances/power company transformers behind wall, below floor, or above ceiling, you may wish to move your cordless computer rig somewhere else.
16. This won't be a 100% perfect fix but may solve 90%+ of non-Internet EMI issues over mains grid/over air. (EMI issues that show up in offline gaming, that was caused externally). Remember "inverse square of distance" is your Best Friend for over-the-air EMI.

Please Note this is possibly bad advice & wasted money. Please read wild goose chase to red herrings, Part 1 & 2. But using a bigass battery as an EMI brute-force fix, it's particularly effective: Completely offgrid gaming computer for only $1000

Although... the Jackery is a damn amazing kickass camping power supply that can boil electric kettles & power a 5000 lumen projector in the middle of nowhere. A cheap tiny 120 volt electric generator that doesn't need gasoline and safe to use indoors....like doubling as a bigass UPS for your gaming PC! Even if EMI just ends up as vapor voodoo -- instead of genuine as it sometimes is -- the 1000 watt-hour Jackery battery is one damn amazing "big cellphone battery bank" that can power an RTX 3090 gaming tower hooked to a 70 inch TV, battery powering both at the same time!

EDIT: The popular 1000-watt Jackery battery is sold out in Amazon USA; there's the smaller 250-watt hour Jackery (fine for gaming laptops like ASUS/Razer at full 200-watt GPU power envelopes). But you NEED the 1000-watt-hour Jackery to properly power RTX 2060+ desktop gaming towers on a battery.
250 watt Jackery battery (available today)
500 watt Jackery battery (sold out in USA as of Oct 21, still available in Canada)
1000 watt Jackery battery (sold out in USA as of Oct 21, still available in Canada)
Note: These are Blur Busters commissioned Amazon Affiliate links.
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Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by bijay135 » 21 Oct 2020, 23:33

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
21 Oct 2020, 14:27
bijay135 wrote:
21 Oct 2020, 04:45
Good luck to you guys on finding a proper fix for this and thank you for reading.
EMI is so astoundingly complex
[...]

Wow, I was not expecting such detail at all :D . Anyway, I wasted almost 2+ years trying to fix this, got fed up and gave up eventually, I am fine gaming on PS4 for now. I am not that desperate enough yet to attempt above fixes which would be quite costly and time consuming which I do not have luxury of at this time.[/quote]

I also forgot to mention I have about 5 parallel high tension / high voltage wires running above my house I would say about 100 meters and I am convinced it's giving off EMI and is the root cause of this problem at least in my case.

Only thing I want to test is a wireless gaming mouse in future because wireless controller just works fine all day and if I move house in future this problem will be sorted itself in time. :D

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Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 22 Oct 2020, 00:13

bijay135 wrote:
21 Oct 2020, 23:33
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
21 Oct 2020, 14:27
bijay135 wrote:
21 Oct 2020, 04:45
Good luck to you guys on finding a proper fix for this and thank you for reading.
EMI is so astoundingly complex
[...]

Wow, I was not expecting such detail at all :D . Anyway, I wasted almost 2+ years trying to fix this, got fed up and gave up eventually, I am fine gaming on PS4 for now. I am not that desperate enough yet to attempt above fixes which would be quite costly and time consuming which I do not have luxury of at this time.

I also forgot to mention I have about 5 parallel high tension / high voltage wires running above my house I would say about 100 meters and I am convinced it's giving off EMI and is the root cause of this problem at least in my case.

Only thing I want to test is a wireless gaming mouse in future because wireless controller just works fine all day and if I move house in future this problem will be sorted itself in time. :D
100 meters? That's pretty high above your building. Do you mean above and to side (e.g. house next to corridor)? Most power transmission pylons (0.5 megavolt transmission wires) are usually only 20 to 50 meters above the ground, distances can be hard to estimate. 100 meters is the equivalent of 30 storey apartment tower. Usually the lowest power transmission line is only 8 to 10 stories above the ground (which translates to approximately 20 to 30 meters) but 700+ kilovolt through 1 megavolt transmission towers can be taller, in the few countries that use such ultrahigh voltages. Distances of power lines are devilishly hard to estimate, but if it's directly vertically above you, then it's already too close already for comfort for a gaming computer.

Living Next To Power Transmission Pylons: Can Cause Problems for Gaming Computers

A larger percentage of EMI interference problems with gaming computers also coincidentally happen to be gaming computer systems near high voltage transmission lines.

Most manufacturers don't really spend thousands of hours testing power transmission EMI, especially since other countries may have more lax dwelling-distancing rules than the manufacturer's country -- meaning you may have minimum 50 meter distance in one country, 100 meter distance in another country, and 10 meter minimum distance.

In some If you know the rules of inverse squares, then 15 meters will have a 100x stronger EMI than 150 meters. Ouch! And power transmission generates really powerful 60Hz over-the-air EMI over distances much, much, much, much farther than common EMI (most common household sources of over-the-air EMI is no longer a problem after being approximately 2-3 feet away, or 1 meter away).

Image

Power Transmission Pylons are The Easy Needles In EMI Haystacks

If you live under them / next to them, that is. Fortunately, EMI from power transmission is well known EMI -- it's simply a 60Hz buzzer-like sound when converted to audio frequencies (you can actually hear them sometimes -- the wires' corona discharge vibrating at 60 Hz, creating sound in the air creating audible noises that concurrently also matches exactly the EMI frequency. While the sound is quiet, the inaudible EMI will be literally jet-engine loud (metaphorically speaking) to a poor computer tower designed to only reject normal household EMI.

The great news is that this is a known EMI frequency; which makes it massively easier to surgically target. By describing power transmission pylons above your home, you've probably described the EMI needle in the haystack: 60 Hertz. It's usually a severely intense EMI -- but it's also very narrowband (60 Hz only).

Power Transmission Line Over-The-Air EMI is Strong but Simple to Block

Those living in these corridors are the most unfortunate recipients of EMI -- hold up a fluorescent tube pointed at the power transmission line within 30-50 meters of you, and it will flicker faintly in darkness. If that happens to you in your house, then definitely, it's a possible problem for your computer. That's EMI that can affect your computer! You can just yank a single tube from any of your ordinary fluorescent-tube fixture and use it as a crude strong-60Hz-field dector.

Fortunately over-the-air 60Hz EMI is easily blocked. Use a full metal enclosure for your computer (no transparent window) and shield all your wires, and preferably keep your computer at the same level as your monitor. Much like how a horizontal tube doesn't light up, but a vertical tube does (pointed at power lines), spreading your wires horizontally will partially reduce EMI under high voltage transmission lines if you live in a dwelling under high-voltage transmission lines.

Power Transmission EMI is very low-frequency, within audible frequencies -- a 60Hz buzz can be heard with a hearing aid configured to "Telephone Coil" mode. (I'm a deafie, and I can hear 60Hz EMI quite easily with my hearing aids in "Telephone Coil Pickup" mode). It's amazing how I walk into some rooms and there's sudden loud screech of a 60Hz buzz at 120 decibels that startles me, because I forgot to disable the telephone-coil mode on my hearing aid... And it definitely screeches loudly with a 60Hz buzz while walking under high voltage lines. Anytime I can hear 60Hz with a hearing aid in Telephone Coil mode, it means the EMI is probably strong enough to be wonky with a computer.

While a lot of quackjobs do Faraday Cages for no reasons, transmission line EMI is no laughing matter for a computer -- it's strong enough to do wacky things to a computer.

The Fluorescent Tube "Lightsaber" Test

Carefully yank any 4 footer tube from any fixture and hold it vertically under a high voltage transmission line at nighttime. Hello Luke Skywalker!

If you are unlucky to live within 30-50 meters of high voltage power transmission pylons -- you've got a big problem if your unwired tube glows in your computer room. You may have to consider a Faraday Cage to protect your gaming computer. For best results, hold up a 4-footer or 8-footer fluorescent tube pointed straight (vertically or diagonally) at the approximate direction of where the nearest power transmission lines are. (Be careful you don't break the tube in the dark accidentally banging it on something!) Power transmission EMI strong enough to faintly light up a handheld 4-foot fluorescent tube while indoors in your dwelling, is a huge EMI problem for a computer.

In some countries, people build homes UNDER these lines. That's a big problem for a modern gaming computer with a transparent window -- your computer isn't well Faraday Caged against these effects -- use a full metal computer tower box, and good shielded cables. Even if the tube glows much fainter than these photos, any faint flickery glow at all is a problem.

Image

Image

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Image

Look at that. EMI making fluorescent bulbs and tubes glow! That EMI can leak into the transparent window of a typical gaming computer. Do NOT use transparent-window gaming towers if you live UNDER these transmission towers. The good news is 60 Hz power transmission line EMI is somewhat mitigatable, and relatively easy to test for (fluorescent tube method).

Do not use transparent windows in your gaming tower if you live next to ultra high voltage power transmission lines! You've left a massive barn door open to 60 Hz low-frequency EMI...

Simple Power Transmission EMI-Rejection Fixes

1. Test with an inexpensive EMF Meter as well as with an unattached 4 foot fluorescent tube at nighttime, lights out, pointing towards those big power towers through the wall or ceiling. Does it glow while inside your comptuer room? Houston, you've got a massive problem if you have magic glowing tube while standing indoors. Your 60 Hz EMI is already far off the scales if the tube glows. Now, even weaker power transmission EMF that does not make your tube glow, can still set off the EMF meter alarm quite quickly and easily. 50 meters will probably still be close enough to raise a fuss on an EMF meter with a 765 kilovolt power transmission line above you. Metaphorically, that 60Hz EMI from power transmission is a bleepingly jet-engine loud compared to the gentle hum of ordinary household 60 Hz EMI.
2. Full metal enclosure for your computer. No gamer glass window (goodbye RGB bling, sorry). You NEED more shielding for your computer tower, so cover up those big metal holes. Something heavy and thick metal is even better. Small holes for vents are OK, but you cannot have a big gaping barn door of a glass window in a room where a handheld unattached fluorescent tube glows.
3. Keep your computer accessory wires 90 degrees to your transmission lines, not parallel to them, nor pointed straight to them. If you live under your power lines, that means keep your mouse/keyboard/USB/DisplayPort/etc wires as horizontal as possible and NOT parallel to the power lines above you. Raise your computer tower to the same level as your monitor, and wire horizontally between the computer / monitor / keyboard / mnouse. Wires at other angles will accept EMI more easily from overhead high voltage transmission lines. It won't solve the problem but it will reduce EMI. Better wires (with good shielding) will make this less necessary, but remember your 4-foot fluorescent tube tester? It glows brightest when it's not pointed at your power transmission lines. Tilt your tube around until your tube glows dimmest. That's the direction your computer accessory wires should go in if you're not Faraday-caging your room.
4. Fully Shielded Data Cables. This won't help fully, but unshielded twisted pair CAT5/CAT6 Ethernet cables should be replacd with CAT7 shielded twisted pairs, and all your wires should be shielded with a metal coaxial shield where possible. Most high-speed cables (10 gigabit and up) are already full-metal outer-shielded, like a coaxial cable's outer metal foil wrap. Upgrade your cables until all your cables are fully shielded. While the twisted pairs help reject EMI (thanks to to the continual-cancel-outs), the twisting may not be perfect enough to fully reject ultrastrong 60Hz EMI from power transmission. So you might as well make sure you've got full metal shielding on all your data cables, no matter what cable (USB, DisplayPort, HDMI, Ethernet, etc). Most high speed cables (10 gigabit+) are already fully shielded\. But some are not shielded enough to reject AC power transmission pylons (phone-wire like cables, slower USB cables, UTP Ethernet cables). Good gaming keyboards and gaming mice already have metal-braided shielding in their USB cables, but not all of them do.
5. If possible, "Faraday Cage" your computer room. It won't be 100% effective with super strong AC fields, but it can diminish it somewhat Use your existing 4-foot tube as your simple EMI detector, test your room in total darkness. If you want a more sensitive power transmission line detector (too weak to light up a tube, and you want to fix your weaker 60Hz EMI), then get a cheap EMF detector with 60 Hz detection capability. Or borrow your grandma's hearing aid device and configure it to "Telephone Coil" mode. Listen for 60Hz buzzing. Rooms with Faraday Cages can be partially effective with 60 Hz power transmission line interference -- the EMI is extremely intense and will punch through. But it can still help to an extent. Because the fluorescent tube does glow dimmer or go dark inside a better-shielded room. Metal sheeting behind your wallpaper. Metal sheeting under your carpet/tile/flooring. Metal embedded in your ceiling. Make sure it's all connected into a unified conducting piece of metal. EMI test accordingly. It won't eliminate the ultrastrong 60 Hz AC EMI completely, that can still punch through the Faraday Cage, but effects will diminish somewhat (tube might still glow but won't glow as brightly). Of course, this may be a waste of money, it's only for the most dedicated people who's got money to burn but unavoidably stuck living next to high voltage transmisson lines.

Remember the 90-degree rule? Look at one of the photos:
Image

So perhaps to be safe, also keep your wires 90 degrees to your power lines, not parallel nor pointing at them. Maybe even carefully tip over your fancy gaming computer (glass window down, onto a sheet metal plate), to resist EMI from the power transmission lines. Unfortunately those zigzaggy computer circuits inside a computer never follow a single direction (inside a computer and inside a monitor) but you'll reduce the odds of EMI injection into your computer. If your cables are shielded this is less necessary, but you can still generate a lot of ground faults (currents conducting across the outer jacket of shielded cables -- just like a glowy tube -- creating various kind of ground imbalance effects), so go 90-degree anyway. Even if you can only make 90% of the cables horizontal, that's still a big reduction in EMI injections. This paragraph won't nearly as be important if you can instead Faraday-cage your room instead.

Also, the battery isolation technique MAY still be worthwhile since power transmission EMI can inject AC-waveform distortions into your house' mains wiring (two overlapping different-phases of AC -- one strong AC waveform, and one fainter AC waveform slightly out-of-phase) -- distorted away from sine-wave because the house' power wiring is picking up EMI interference from the power transmission lines.

Powerful EMI from near-megavolt transmission lines can inject some very weird effects into a nearby gaming computer. Manufacturers do not spend thousands of hours testing a gaming computer under high voltage transmission lines. And your country's may have more lax rules about building dwellings mere meters away from high voltage transmission lines, like houses underneath the wires...

Remember, this does not preclude other superstrong sources of nearby EMI outside your property lines (e.g. transformer stations, high power radio broadcasting towers, cell towers improperly pointed at your dwelling point-blank, miltary radar, airport radar, etc)...

You may have many sources of EMI, so concurrently doing this advice AND the battery-power advice may also solve EMI problems for high-end gaming underneath high-voltage transmission pylons. You might need to hit multiple bases for EMI sources strong enough to overcome 2 feet (power transmission EMI is unusually strong -- it can emit problematic interference to a gaming computer a hundred meters away), combined with weaker EMI that is indirectly caused by this (e.g. dirty power going into your comptuer power suppy). So you may have a whac-a-mole factor too.

Nontheless, this is "uber power user, I gotta solve EMI at all costs" advice for a person unable to move away from EMI. Worldwide, millions live too close to power transmission lines for EMI comfort -- so you can be unlucky with your gaming computer. The good news is that strong EMI from power transmission is mostly simply a 60Hz buzz, and targeted mitigation is possible.

Note: The buzz is 50 Hz in some countries that use 50 Hz power frequencies. Replace all occurances of "60Hz" with "50Hz" if this is your particular case.
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Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by bijay135 » 22 Oct 2020, 02:15

Thank you chief for this wonderful post :D . I asked around the distance to the high tension wires I think it's about 20 meters from my room and it's a bit further away / not directly above.

Also, the things you mentioned in simple emi-rejection fixes checked out a lot when I still had a desktop. Transparent window tower with bit of plastic build and I kept it in floor. :lol: Even now since PS4 is mostly plastic build and still in floor, I guess that's why it is still being affected.

I think I will try the florescent bulb method and see if it lights up sometime in future or even get a EMI meter if I can find one for cheap.

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Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 22 Oct 2020, 02:22

You're welcome!

If your tube lights up indoors, please post a photo (even if your face is not in the photo) with your glowy tube indoors, being held in your hand. Be noted, it needs really high voltage in your wire to light up. If your transmission wire is only 10 kilovolts, it won't light up. But if your wire is a 500 kilovolt wire, it probably will light up faintly.

(Use your smartphone's long-exposure mode or night-vision mode, to take a photo.... It's hard to take a photo of a dim tube)
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Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by Unixko » 22 Oct 2020, 04:15

bijay135 wrote:
22 Oct 2020, 02:15
Thank you chief for this wonderful post :D . I asked around the distance to the high tension wires I think it's about 20 meters from my room and it's a bit further away / not directly above.

Also, the things you mentioned in simple emi-rejection fixes checked out a lot when I still had a desktop. Transparent window tower with bit of plastic build and I kept it in floor. :lol: Even now since PS4 is mostly plastic build and still in floor, I guess that's why it is still being affected.

I think I will try the florescent bulb method and see if it lights up sometime in future or even get a EMI meter if I can find one for cheap.
let me know bijay for how long your wireless will be perfect for me it was 7 days without problems then this problem comeback cuz you need power up your mouse so you plug a cable to your pc and if this shit coming from your pc then you power your mouse with dirty shit to and become bad like wired one thats why i think wireless has more potencial in the begining not for everybody just for people who has emi come from pc or directly from outlet/powerline

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Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by bijay135 » 22 Oct 2020, 09:28

Unixko wrote:
22 Oct 2020, 04:15
bijay135 wrote:
22 Oct 2020, 02:15
Thank you chief for this wonderful post :D . I asked around the distance to the high tension wires I think it's about 20 meters from my room and it's a bit further away / not directly above.

Also, the things you mentioned in simple emi-rejection fixes checked out a lot when I still had a desktop. Transparent window tower with bit of plastic build and I kept it in floor. :lol: Even now since PS4 is mostly plastic build and still in floor, I guess that's why it is still being affected.

I think I will try the florescent bulb method and see if it lights up sometime in future or even get a EMI meter if I can find one for cheap.
let me know bijay for how long your wireless will be perfect for me it was 7 days without problems then this problem comeback cuz you need power up your mouse so you plug a cable to your pc and if this shit coming from your pc then you power your mouse with dirty shit to and become bad like wired one thats why i think wireless has more potencial in the begining not for everybody just for people who has emi come from pc or directly from outlet/powerline
I don't have a good wireless gaming mouse yet so can't really test it now, all I know is PS4 wireless dual shock controller just works fine, it's been over few years I have been gaming on PS4 and never faced the progressively increasing input lag like on a mouse.

I got a very cheap wireless keyboard/mouse combo though which I use sometimes when I connect my laptop to monitor and use it as a desktop, it's quite bad so can't play games with it. Even here mouse feels amazingly responsive compared to my Logitech G102 feels like sliding on ice, that's why I think a good wireless gaming mouse could potentially be unaffected by this problem.

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Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 23 Oct 2020, 00:00

For ultrastrong EMI situations (living under a power transmission tower), cordless keyboard and mice can be a good option.

Any EMI that is superstrong (millions times stronger than your garden-variety household-appliance EMI rejection of "FCC Approval" fame) that makes a 4 foot tube glow indoors in your house, will also be injecting potential 60Hz EMI into mouse cables and keyboard cables.

This 60Hz EMI noise can erratically trigger the USB error correction logic that lags/jitters the polls if the cheap cables are not properly twisted-pair and not well-shielded. So wireless can bypass that. It's just Common Sense 101 to an electrical engineer familiar with ultrastrong EMI as photos above show.

I wish more manufacturers would use twisted-pair CAT7-like cables for mouse and keyboard USB cables. The non-twisted-pair of common USB cables easily picks up transmission tower EMI (the kind of EMI strong enough to light up fluorescent tubes). Twisted-pair would have been better in rejecting this type of EMI. I wonder if hacked wired mouse mods using metal-shielded STP Ethernet (CAT7) as USB cables between mouse and computer, would make any difference. The twisted-pairness AND the metal-shielding, simultaneously helps a lot.

Obviously, some of this veers into voodoo territory, but fluorescent-tube-glowing-capable EMI is no laughing matter for gaming computers!
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Strongz
Posts: 4
Joined: 28 Jul 2020, 20:40

Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by Strongz » 24 Oct 2020, 08:32

I was thinking something, maybe I have a different problem than yours, I remember that CrucialNug said that he moved his pc to a different location and it worked well. Now I took my pc to many locations with good electrical installation and in all it worked poorly. I decided to do the installation of the ground bars and put together a completely new pc again with the hope that with the installation it would be fixed but it was not like that. I have a neighbor who uses industrial tools, but when he uses the welding machine the voltage goes down and the voltage rises in my house because we are connected to the same transformer. My neighbor does not use his tools and does not lower the voltage, I was 3 days in a row testing only at night and the pc worked wonderfully I thought that with the installation of the bars it had been fixed so I decided to test the pc in the afternoon when the neighbor It uses its industrial machines and that is when my pc went back to being the same as before, problems, delay everywhere, etc. Could it be that these rises and falls in voltage affect the functioning of the pc at that level?

Bobo
Posts: 83
Joined: 05 Jun 2018, 11:44

Re: [Power/EMI] I discover why sometime PC become fast and low input lag and otherwise feel high input lag

Post by Bobo » 25 Oct 2020, 05:59

I would recommend you guys to check some audiophile forums in regards to the power problems, they have alot of solutions.
Start with the power cables, something like the supra lorad should be enough. But if you really want clean power then get a power regenerator, something like the PS Audio Power Plant.

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