Very interesting!
Thanks for posting.
Yeah, I tend to forget how everything changes from build to build when it comes to latency.
There's just so many variables (sample-to-sample variances in each component of the PC), plus the differences we're trying to measure are so small, that this is bound to be the case.
Is it true Ryzen has higher input lag than Intel? Is there conclusive data to prove this?
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Re: Is it true Ryzen has higher input lag than Intel? Is there conclusive data to prove this?
In my experience, the biggest, most consistent factor where raw "average" (but not necessarily distributional) latency and gaming is directly concerned is typically the game engine.A Solid lad wrote: ↑10 Feb 2022, 09:36Very interesting!
Thanks for posting.
Yeah, I tend to forget how everything changes from build to build when it comes to latency.
There's just so many variables (sample-to-sample variances in each component of the PC), plus the differences we're trying to measure are so small, that this is bound to be the case.
That said, there's no doubt there can be latency differences from system-to-system, but again, yes, it's highly relative to the mix of components and software being run, as well as the given user configuration (sometimes regardless of platform), so that can make it difficult (often impractical) to get a 1:1 comparison in every situation.
I think the real answer to "Is it true Ryzen has higher input lag than Intel?" is "It depends." That doesn't mean it can't be discussed, I just don't think there's any "one" easy, globally applicable answer.
For instance, my G-SYNC article's latency results are globally applicable, yet the "total" latency of each scenario will vary per system. The only constant in that case is the "difference" between those totals.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series
Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series
Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)
- BTRY B 529th FA BN
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Re: Is it true Ryzen has higher input lag than Intel? Is there conclusive data to prove this?
Interesting, jorimt! Thank you for posting.
I'm trying to run it on my 5800X machine and it's running but it say:
*** Unable to access mlcdrv.sys to modify prefetchers
*** So, enabling random access for latency measurements
It also says that on my i7 970 X58 rig. I'm running it from my downloads folder just by clicking the mlc.exe The mlcdrv.sys driver is also in the same folder. Using mlc v3.9a
EDIT: Also can one make a direct comparison between running MLC on Intel VS AMD or does there need to be some changes made when running it? What I mean is with the inability to access mlcdrv.sys to modify prefetch; assuming I'm running MLC right.
I'm trying to run it on my 5800X machine and it's running but it say:
*** Unable to access mlcdrv.sys to modify prefetchers
*** So, enabling random access for latency measurements
It also says that on my i7 970 X58 rig. I'm running it from my downloads folder just by clicking the mlc.exe The mlcdrv.sys driver is also in the same folder. Using mlc v3.9a
EDIT: Also can one make a direct comparison between running MLC on Intel VS AMD or does there need to be some changes made when running it? What I mean is with the inability to access mlcdrv.sys to modify prefetch; assuming I'm running MLC right.
Re: Is it true Ryzen has higher input lag than Intel? Is there conclusive data to prove this?
I provided instructions on how to properly run MLC much earlier in this thread:BTRY B 529th FA BN wrote: ↑10 Feb 2022, 23:53Interesting, jorimt! Thank you for posting.
I'm trying to run it on my 5800X machine and it's running but it say:
*** Unable to access mlcdrv.sys to modify prefetchers
*** So, enabling random access for latency measurements
It also says that on my i7 970 X58 rig. I'm running it from my downloads folder just by clicking the mlc.exe The mlcdrv.sys driver is also in the same folder. Using mlc v3.9a
EDIT: Also can one make a direct comparison between running MLC on Intel VS AMD or does there need to be some changes made when running it? What I mean is with the inability to access mlcdrv.sys to modify prefetch; assuming I'm running MLC right.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7033&p=53073&hilit=mlc#p53073
It should work the same on an AMD system as it does on an Intel system, as far as I'm aware.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series
Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series
Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)
- BTRY B 529th FA BN
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Re: Is it true Ryzen has higher input lag than Intel? Is there conclusive data to prove this?
Ok, got it working! Needed to execute mlc -ejorimt wrote: ↑11 Feb 2022, 08:51I provided instructions on how to properly run MLC much earlier in this thread:BTRY B 529th FA BN wrote: ↑10 Feb 2022, 23:53Interesting, jorimt! Thank you for posting.
I'm trying to run it on my 5800X machine and it's running but it say:
*** Unable to access mlcdrv.sys to modify prefetchers
*** So, enabling random access for latency measurements
It also says that on my i7 970 X58 rig. I'm running it from my downloads folder just by clicking the mlc.exe The mlcdrv.sys driver is also in the same folder. Using mlc v3.9a
EDIT: Also can one make a direct comparison between running MLC on Intel VS AMD or does there need to be some changes made when running it? What I mean is with the inability to access mlcdrv.sys to modify prefetch; assuming I'm running MLC right.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7033&p=53073&hilit=mlc#p53073
It should work the same on an AMD system as it does on an Intel system, as far as I'm aware.
Win10 5800X + 32GB 1833-3666 CMD 1T GDM Enabled 14.14.15.14.30
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Re: Is it true Ryzen has higher input lag than Intel? Is there conclusive data to prove this?
On the topic of latency measurements, does anyone know who I can contact or where I can get an LDAT?
Re: Is it true Ryzen has higher input lag than Intel? Is there conclusive data to prove this?
So, I can confirm, that Zen3 platform is very strange. In csgo I have input desync, for example - cant bhop. For guys, who dont know - you need to scroll mouse to jump and press ADADAD and do it in same timing.
First of all - no WHEA errors, no TM5 errors, all stability tests (prime, linx, aida, occt) passed. PC is bought about half year ago.
I turned off RAM XMP profile, used just 2400mhz 1.2v default profile - desync disappeared. OC'ed manual to 3000, 3200, 3600 with 1.35v (like XMP) - some have desync, some not.
Deep inspecting is not possible, because IF (memory controller) is integrated to CPU, some motherboards have problems with RAM OCing because of layers thickness (lolwut?) and so on. And to inspect problem I need to get new MB, CPU and RAM to be sure. And new ryzens will be on new socket, so this is not cost my money and time. And i7-12700K outperforms r9-5900x at the same price, and you still have i9 for upgrade. And AMD offering to turn PCIe4 back to PCIe3 to eliminate USB bugs.
Maybe ryzen is ok for someone, but I'm better switch to Intel back.
First of all - no WHEA errors, no TM5 errors, all stability tests (prime, linx, aida, occt) passed. PC is bought about half year ago.
I turned off RAM XMP profile, used just 2400mhz 1.2v default profile - desync disappeared. OC'ed manual to 3000, 3200, 3600 with 1.35v (like XMP) - some have desync, some not.
Deep inspecting is not possible, because IF (memory controller) is integrated to CPU, some motherboards have problems with RAM OCing because of layers thickness (lolwut?) and so on. And to inspect problem I need to get new MB, CPU and RAM to be sure. And new ryzens will be on new socket, so this is not cost my money and time. And i7-12700K outperforms r9-5900x at the same price, and you still have i9 for upgrade. And AMD offering to turn PCIe4 back to PCIe3 to eliminate USB bugs.
Maybe ryzen is ok for someone, but I'm better switch to Intel back.
- BTRY B 529th FA BN
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Re: Is it true Ryzen has higher input lag than Intel? Is there conclusive data to prove this?
The G.SKILL (both DDR4 and DDR5) were using XMP (the OLOy didn't support XMP), and neither the 8700k nor the 12900k were manually OCed in those captures. They were at stock with default MultiCore/turbo boost enhancements (both ASUS motherboards) enabled.
The 12900k is barely worth OCing past stock (for gaming) unless you're going for benchmark scores. I'm already getting a ~230w draw from the CPU at stock 5.1GHz turbo in Cinebench R23, for instance
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series
Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series
Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)
- BTRY B 529th FA BN
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Re: Is it true Ryzen has higher input lag than Intel? Is there conclusive data to prove this?
Are others getting 10ns type latency?jorimt wrote: ↑14 Feb 2022, 16:21The G.SKILL (both DDR4 and DDR5) were using XMP (the OLOy didn't support XMP), and neither the 8700k nor the 12900k were manually OCed in those captures. They were at stock with default MultiCore/turbo boost enhancements (both ASUS motherboards) enabled.
The 12900k is barely worth OCing past stock (for gaming) unless you're going for benchmark scores. I'm already getting a ~230w draw from the CPU at stock 5.1GHz turbo in Cinebench R23, for instance