Apex Pro TKL, Improvement in Input Latency and Measurments against other keyboards.

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senny22
Posts: 92
Joined: 03 May 2019, 17:40

Apex Pro TKL, Improvement in Input Latency and Measurments against other keyboards.

Post by senny22 » 24 Jun 2020, 07:42

I bought the Apex Pro TKL a couple of days ago because I kind off fell for the marketing in regards to responsiveness and input lag because I was sick of a very sluggish movement in games on my keyboards with content Red and Cherry MX Blue switches. I could just return the keyboard if it didn't improve anything.

However, I can now say that the difference between my other keyboards in games like CS:GO is noticeable when using the actuation point at 1 (lightest setting). Actually moving out from a corner and stopping to shoot before getting killed is possible sometimes now.

Also, the switches are INCREDIBLY smooth, like insanely smooth compared to any Red switch that I've tried before and using the actuation point at around 6 makes the keyboard almost more enjoyable to write on compared to my MX blue switches.

Anyway, if anyone wants me to do any tests (not sure what tests though) with this keyboard and compare it to my other keyboards then I'd be happy to.

Edit: I made some measurements.

Method: I loaded up D2 long in CS:GO and binded "fire" to the letter "p". I then proceeded to press "p" (as fast and consistently as I could) while recording in 960 fps on my smartphone camera until the first on-screen-reaction. Then I loaded up the recordings and measured each frame between my finger hitting the top of the keycap until the first on-screen-reaction. I did this for 7 times for each keyboard / actuation setting. Finally, I calculated the average frames, divided them by 960 and multiplied that with 1000 to get ms (I avereged it out to full ms). The FPS was locked at 237 and Freesync was activated. Now this test isn't very scientific and should be taken with some grain of salt so bear that in mind.

It took me around 4-5 ms from hitting the keycap top bottoming out which should mean that the difference between actuation points should be at the most 4 ms. Also, Simply based on the switch the Brown and Blue switches should theoretically be the slowest while the Red Switches should be in the middle and the OmniPoint with light actuation the fastest.

Results:
- Cooler Master MK 730, Cherry MX Blue Switches: 27 ms.

- Deltaco GAM 075, Content Red Switches: 24 ms.

- Ducky One 2, Cherry MX Brown Switches: 23 ms.

- Apex Pro TKL, OmniPoint Switches, Actuation setting 7 (heavier than medium, also heavier than Red Switches): 20 ms.

- Apex Pro TKL, OmniPoint Switches, Actuation setting 4 (what I believe is close to Red Switches): 19 ms.

- Apex Pro TKL, OmniPoint Switches, Actuation setting 1 (lightest): 16 ms.

Conclusion: As the testing shows, the Apex Pro TKL is somewhat faster compared the the other keyboard I had available and could test.

Regarding the Ducky with the Brown switches, it seems that it was faster than it should be since it was 4 ms faster than the Cooler Master with Blue Switches. Perhaps this has got something to do with the other electronics in the Keyboards,with the Ducky being the better one compared to the Deltaco and Cooler Master.

As for the Apex Pro TKL, it seems that the marketing actually holds some water in this case. SteelSeries claim a response time (debounce time) of 0.7ms vs 6ms in standard mechanical switches.In actuality though, I've read that Cherry MX Switches typically have 5ms of debounce. This should make the Apex Pro TKL just over 4 ms faster compared to regular switches, disregarding the actuation point. The Apex with actuation setting 4 (close to reds) was also just that, 4 ms faster than the ducky and 5 ms faster than the Deltaco keyboard. Using the lightest actuation force (basically tapping the button just enough to move), the Apex got even faster at 16 ms. All in all, using the lightest Actuation it seems you can gain around 6-8 ms of input delay using the Apex Keyboard compared to some other alternatives.

It definitely would be interesting to try some optical switches like on the Razer Huntsman keyboard but that's not something I'm gonna be able to do but according to Brandon Taylor, the Huntsman is even faster than the Apex Pro.
Last edited by senny22 on 25 Jun 2020, 03:39, edited 1 time in total.

kyube
Posts: 1
Joined: 29 Jan 2018, 12:03

Re: Got the Apex Pro TKL Keyboard, very large improvement in input lag.

Post by kyube » 24 Jun 2020, 12:44

How does it stack up to optical keyboard like the Libra Brown switches from A4Tech Bloody, the offerings from Wooting and Logitech's Romer-G and MX Speeds? Could you make a big chart of all input lags you've tested thus far and pick a number 1?
Can you show on video what you mean with: "Actually moving out from a corner and stopping to shoot before getting killed is possible sometimes now." ?

senny22
Posts: 92
Joined: 03 May 2019, 17:40

Re: Got the Apex Pro TKL Keyboard, very large improvement in input lag.

Post by senny22 » 25 Jun 2020, 03:54

kyube wrote:
24 Jun 2020, 12:44
Can you show on video what you mean with: "Actually moving out from a corner and stopping to shoot before getting killed is possible sometimes now." ?
I don't have the keyboards you mentioned but updated the OP with the Keyboards I could try.

Here is a video demonstrating what I meant. However, the video looks like I'm "prepeaking" but that's not what I meant. It's more like I'm widing out without any plan to stop but if there had been an enemy there, then I could be quicker to stop when pressing the opposite key (due to the faster keyboard) and thus start shooting him faster without losing accuracy.

deama
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Joined: 07 Aug 2019, 12:00

Re: Apex Pro TKL, Improvement in Input Latency and Measurments against other keyboards.

Post by deama » 04 Jul 2020, 08:09

I kinda wanna buy an Apex pro TKL myself just to compare it to my bloody b975, but I ain't rich enough for that :cry:

senny22
Posts: 92
Joined: 03 May 2019, 17:40

Re: Apex Pro TKL, Improvement in Input Latency and Measurments against other keyboards.

Post by senny22 » 04 Jul 2020, 09:13

deama wrote:
04 Jul 2020, 08:09
I kinda wanna buy an Apex pro TKL myself just to compare it to my bloody b975, but I ain't rich enough for that :cry:
I believe they would be similar, both being optical switches. Don't think the Apex is better any measurable way.

deama
Posts: 208
Joined: 07 Aug 2019, 12:00

Re: Apex Pro TKL, Improvement in Input Latency and Measurments against other keyboards.

Post by deama » 04 Jul 2020, 09:21

senny22 wrote:
04 Jul 2020, 09:13
deama wrote:
04 Jul 2020, 08:09
I kinda wanna buy an Apex pro TKL myself just to compare it to my bloody b975, but I ain't rich enough for that :cry:
I believe they would be similar, both being optical switches. Don't think the Apex is better any measurable way.
Ah, I see.

Have you heard of the wooting one keyboard? They advertise that one as having analogue switches, but do they actually mean optical switches or what? Cause I would think that analogue would be slower than optical, even though some people have done tests and said it was pretty damn fast, I think one guy said around 8ms? Could be bad tests though.

senny22
Posts: 92
Joined: 03 May 2019, 17:40

Re: Apex Pro TKL, Improvement in Input Latency and Measurments against other keyboards.

Post by senny22 » 04 Jul 2020, 13:48

deama wrote:
04 Jul 2020, 09:21
senny22 wrote:
04 Jul 2020, 09:13
deama wrote:
04 Jul 2020, 08:09
I kinda wanna buy an Apex pro TKL myself just to compare it to my bloody b975, but I ain't rich enough for that :cry:
I believe they would be similar, both being optical switches. Don't think the Apex is better any measurable way.
Ah, I see.

Have you heard of the wooting one keyboard? They advertise that one as having analogue switches, but do they actually mean optical switches or what? Cause I would think that analogue would be slower than optical, even though some people have done tests and said it was pretty damn fast, I think one guy said around 8ms? Could be bad tests though.
Sry my bad. The Apex isn't optical, it's analogue. The Razer Huntsman is optical though along with the Bloody Keyboard. According to Brandon Taylor on youtube the Razer Huntsman (optical) is slightly faster than the Apex (analogue) in terms of raw speed. I wouldn't imagine that there would be a large difference between these though.

Bloody claims a response time of 0.2 ms for their optical switch while Steelseries claims a 0.7 ms response time for their OmniPoint (analogue) switches. Theoretically, the Bloody and Razer Huntsman should be faster but then again, you would have to take into consideration that you can adjust the actuation point on the Steelseries and the shorter travel distance could potentially make up for the fact that the analogue switches have slightly slower response times.

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kurtextrem
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Location: Munich, Germany

Re: Apex Pro TKL, Improvement in Input Latency and Measurments against other keyboards.

Post by kurtextrem » 04 Jul 2020, 13:56

Please use the term hall-effect switches and differentiate between "analogue" and "hall-effect". It's not the same. It can be, but it's not the same.

Also, Steelseries mentions the razer optical switches in a blog about the Apex Pro and they said they wanted even faster switches, which brought them to hall-effect.
Acer XF250Q, R6 competitive player

schizobeyondpills
Posts: 84
Joined: 06 Jun 2020, 04:00

Re: Apex Pro TKL, Improvement in Input Latency and Measurments against other keyboards.

Post by schizobeyondpills » 04 Jul 2020, 14:05

Huntsman is NOT faster than Apex Pro TKL 1, i owned both editions of Huntsman and now use Apex Pro TKL on 1, highest actuation(fastest).
no measures however the difference is ~ 20-30% in favor of Apex from feeling.
btw u might want to plug just 1 USB from Apex(one responsible for kb) in, second one is useless so unplug it.

senny22
Posts: 92
Joined: 03 May 2019, 17:40

Re: Apex Pro TKL, Improvement in Input Latency and Measurments against other keyboards.

Post by senny22 » 04 Jul 2020, 14:46

kurtextrem wrote:
04 Jul 2020, 13:56
Please use the term hall-effect switches and differentiate between "analogue" and "hall-effect". It's not the same. It can be, but it's not the same.

Also, Steelseries mentions the razer optical switches in a blog about the Apex Pro and they said they wanted even faster switches, which brought them to hall-effect.
I see, What would the difference be between "hall-effect" and "analogue"? Is "hall-effect" simply Steelseries' version of analogue?

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