I'M SO CLOSE TO FINISHING MY INPUT LAG!

Everything about latency. Tips, testing methods, mouse lag, display lag, game engine lag, network lag, whole input lag chain, VSYNC OFF vs VSYNC ON, and more! Input Lag Articles on Blur Busters.
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Ferr0
Posts: 31
Joined: 26 Jan 2021, 10:40

Re: I'M SO CLOSE TO FINISHING MY INPUT LAG!

Post by Ferr0 » 27 Jan 2021, 13:45

RamenRider wrote:
01 Jul 2020, 00:10
Some had input lag no matter which windows version I was using. 7, 8, 10, didn't matter because Windows imports the same shitty updates from win 10.
Do you mean to say that having multiple OS installs will cause them to import settings from each other? Or are you saying that old OS's downloaded new updates once the initial ISO install was finished?

Brainlet
Posts: 100
Joined: 30 May 2020, 12:39
Contact:

Re: I'M SO CLOSE TO FINISHING MY INPUT LAG!

Post by Brainlet » 27 Jan 2021, 18:54

Ferr0 wrote:
27 Jan 2021, 13:45
RamenRider wrote:
01 Jul 2020, 00:10
Some had input lag no matter which windows version I was using. 7, 8, 10, didn't matter because Windows imports the same shitty updates from win 10.
Do you mean to say that having multiple OS installs will cause them to import settings from each other? Or are you saying that old OS's downloaded new updates once the initial ISO install was finished?
I assume he is referring to security updates affecting performance. Each OS installation has its own settings/updates/registry etc.
Starting point for beginners: PC Optimization Hub

pervysage19
Posts: 3
Joined: 03 Feb 2021, 06:23

Re: I'M SO CLOSE TO FINISHING MY INPUT LAG!

Post by pervysage19 » 03 Feb 2021, 08:26

RamenRider wrote:
28 Jun 2020, 21:37

Lastly I found this method to disable DWM on certain applications. Much easier to do than the aforementioned tweaks. But I'm not sure if it worked or not. https://superuser.c om/questions/1509013/is-there-a-way-to-disable-dwm-on-windows-10-1903
I made an account just to thank you for posting this AMAZING tweak. Came across this thread while searching Google trying to solve my particular issue and this tweak did EXACTLY that.

My problem was with Overwatch but I'm sure it applies to other games as well... that is just the game that I mainly play at the moment. Basically, upon start up my game would be feeling great. If I used Windows key to return to the desktop if I wanted to do some web browsing or watching videos or whatever in between games, it would usually be okay... I could return to the game window and things would be normal. But if I used any other method like ALT-TAB, ALT-ENTER, Windows + D and stuff like that, upon returning to the game window, my aim feel felt like total crap... like a floaty/sluggish mess. The only way to get back to normal would be to close the game and restart it.

Now you would think a simple solution to this would be to just avoid doing the above things... avoid using ALT-TAB, ALT-ENTER etc... and ONLY use Windows key when I want to go to the desktop... but to make things worse my aim feel would go to crap when I did things like open the game window and click my mouse too fast. For example, if I re-opened the game window and IMMEDIATELY started spamming left clicks, it would make my aim feel go wonky the same way ALT-ENTER & Windows + D would. Also let's say I'm doing something as simple as listening to music on Spotify... if I get a game, I usually go and shut down the Spotify app and return to the game window to play. I realized that if I close Spotify by right clicking the icon on the system tray and clicking Exit, and then immediately open my game window very quickly as Spotify is still exiting... once again I would get crappy aim feel.

My point is, this behavior started occurring even when I would be trying my best to avoid it! It was extremely annoying and frustrating and as soon as I applied the above fix in the registry, the problem IMMEDIATELY went away. I always had a hunch it was DWM behind the problem and this settles it.

Based on the above behavior it seems like the trigger was something related to my game window being open and the desktop working in the background at the same time. For example, me clicking too fast after returning to the game window, my initial clicks were probably still registering on the desktop. When I close an app like Spotify and it hangs around for just a second and by then I already open my game window, the desktop is probably still registering that I closed Spotify.. basically I had to avoid any kind of multi-tasking for fear of my aim feel going to crap in-game.

I'm shocked it was so easy to do... I had no idea such a simple registry tweak exists to disable DWM for an individual application. Really useful!
Last edited by pervysage19 on 03 Feb 2021, 16:49, edited 1 time in total.

pwn
Posts: 60
Joined: 15 Jan 2019, 18:22

Re: I'M SO CLOSE TO FINISHING MY INPUT LAG!

Post by pwn » 03 Feb 2021, 15:08

pervysage19 wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 08:26
RamenRider wrote:
28 Jun 2020, 21:37

Lastly I found this method to disable DWM on certain applications. Much easier to do than the aforementioned tweaks. But I'm not sure if it worked or not. https://superuser.c om/questions/1509013/is-there-a-way-to-disable-dwm-on-windows-10-1903
I made an account just to thank you for posting this AMAZING tweak. Came across this thread while searching Google trying to solve my particular issue and this tweak did EXACTLY that.

My problem was with Overwatch but I'm sure it applies to other games as well... that is just the game that I mainly play at the moment. Basically, upon start up my game would be feeling great. If I used Windows key to return to the desktop if I wanted to do some web browsing or watching videos or whatever in between games, it would usually be okay... I could return to the game window and things would be normal. But if I used any other method like ALT-TAB, ALT-ENTER, Windows + D and stuff like that, upon returning to the game window, my aim feel felt like total crap... like a floaty/sluggish mess. The only way to get back to normal would be to close the game and restart it.

Now you would think a simple solution to this would be to just avoid doing the above things... avoid using ALT-TAB, ALT-ENTER etc... and ONLY use Windows key when I want to go to the desktop... but to make things worse my aim feel would go to crap when I did things like open the game window and click my mouse too fast. For example, if I re-opened the game window and IMMEDIATELY started spamming left clicks, it would make my aim feel go wonky the same way ALT-ENTER & Windows + D would. Also let's say I'm doing something as simple as listening to music on Spotify... if I get a game, I usually go and shut down the Spotify app and return to the game window to play. I realized that if I close Spotify by right clicking the icon on the system tray and clicking Exit, and then immediately open my game window very quickly as Spotify is still exiting... once again I would get crappy aim feel.

My point is, this behavior started occurring even when I would be trying my best to avoid it! It was extremely annoying and frustrating and as soon as I applied the above fix in the registry, the problem IMMEDIATELY went away. I always had a hunch it was DWM behind the problem and this settles it.

I'm shocked it was so easy to do... I had no idea such a simple registry tweak exists to disable DWM for an individual application. Really useful!

Show me how you registered it in the registry?

pervysage19
Posts: 3
Joined: 03 Feb 2021, 06:23

Re: I'M SO CLOSE TO FINISHING MY INPUT LAG!

Post by pervysage19 » 03 Feb 2021, 17:02

pwn wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 15:08
Show me how you registered it in the registry?
DISABLEDWM.png
DISABLEDWM.png (27.63 KiB) Viewed 8503 times
So basically you go to the above location in the Registry: Computer\HKEY_CURRENT_USER\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\AppCompatFlags\Layers

Here you may find (or maybe you won't see anything if you don't have any custom compatibility flags set for your apps) a list of .exe's that already have existing compatibility flags. For example, if you have already gone into your games .exe and used the checkbox next to 'Disable Fullscreen Optimizations", you will see your .exe listed like above with the data "DISABLEDXMAXIMIZEDWINDOWEDMODE" next to it. If you have an .exe that Runs as Administrator, you will see "RUNASADMIN" next to it... high DPI settings will show something like the HIGHDPIAWARE next to it.

Anyways, point of the above is, if you don't see your .exe listed you just need to enable one of the above flags (only temporary, you can remove it afterwards if you didn't want it) and it will appear in the Registry Editor. From there, you can see that I went into the Overwatch.exe listing and simply added "DISABLEDWM" at the end of it. So you would want to do this for all your game .exe's to fix any issues that this terrible DWM process is causing you.

pwn
Posts: 60
Joined: 15 Jan 2019, 18:22

Re: I'M SO CLOSE TO FINISHING MY INPUT LAG!

Post by pwn » 04 Feb 2021, 05:43

pervysage19 wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 17:02
pwn wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 15:08
Show me how you registered it in the registry?
DISABLEDWM.png

So basically you go to the above location in the Registry: Computer\HKEY_CURRENT_USER\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\AppCompatFlags\Layers

Here you may find (or maybe you won't see anything if you don't have any custom compatibility flags set for your apps) a list of .exe's that already have existing compatibility flags. For example, if you have already gone into your games .exe and used the checkbox next to 'Disable Fullscreen Optimizations", you will see your .exe listed like above with the data "DISABLEDXMAXIMIZEDWINDOWEDMODE" next to it. If you have an .exe that Runs as Administrator, you will see "RUNASADMIN" next to it... high DPI settings will show something like the HIGHDPIAWARE next to it.

Anyways, point of the above is, if you don't see your .exe listed you just need to enable one of the above flags (only temporary, you can remove it afterwards if you didn't want it) and it will appear in the Registry Editor. From there, you can see that I went into the Overwatch.exe listing and simply added "DISABLEDWM" at the end of it. So you would want to do this for all your game .exe's to fix any issues that this terrible DWM process is causing you.

ty ;)

forii
Posts: 218
Joined: 29 Jan 2020, 18:23

Re: I'M SO CLOSE TO FINISHING MY INPUT LAG!

Post by forii » 04 Feb 2021, 07:32

I don't recommend disabling DWM.exe on Windows 10. It might works if you use it for gaming session but overall it can ruin your whole system.

Yes, Windows Desktop Manager adds 16ms input lag to the mouse, and I tested it in game, difference is massssive, response time is like INSTANT when you compare it. But in my game I have played I had these 2 sec freeze every 20-30 minutes... Couldn't play with this unfortunately..

i was using DWM killer script which was killing all needed processes like Search, windows shell experience host, Start, etc, and activate old alt tab layout.
but as I said it was freezing my whole screen in game for 1-2 sec every 30 min. It was unplayable if u play competive, HOWEVER mouse response time was amazing... I regret knowing this, because I have this thing in mind and its hard to forget about it...

its like you are able to turn off input lag and be much better BUT you can't and you need to play with this invisible "v-sync" over your games

I didn't give up and still was looking for solution to fix the freezes but then somehow my whole system crashed, bsod, and my boot file got damaged, couldnt restart my pc, had to reinstall. end of story.

Phoenix
Posts: 4
Joined: 24 Jan 2021, 20:14

Re: I'M SO CLOSE TO FINISHING MY INPUT LAG!

Post by Phoenix » 04 Feb 2021, 10:11

Isn't it fixed QPC at 10MHz in newer Win10s that makes your mouse feel... different? Iirc, if a window is focused on a game and no overlays are over the game, then there shouldn't be any lag added.
jorimt wrote: DWM is essentially a tear-free compositor, so where games are concerned, that means the worst it can do is increase the buffer. E.g. it doesn't play any part in the rendering of game frames, only their display.

A buffer would increase input lag by a full frame in each instance (as opposed to fractional frames), so we could conclude that if FSO is doing anything to mouse input, it would be in single increments of 1 or more frames, and only after the frames themselves have been rendered.

And as I have said, I have done high speed testing of FSO vs true exclusive fullscreen in the past, and it hasn't shown an increase in average input lag.
Unfortunatelly I can't post links, but it's FSO vs. Exclusive Fullscreen thread here, 3 page, 2 post. Also google RodroG's PC Gaming Analysis on Reddit, and scroll down to Approximate Latency Results.

pervysage19
Posts: 3
Joined: 03 Feb 2021, 06:23

Re: I'M SO CLOSE TO FINISHING MY INPUT LAG!

Post by pervysage19 » 04 Feb 2021, 17:07

forii wrote:
04 Feb 2021, 07:32
I don't recommend disabling DWM.exe on Windows 10. It might works if you use it for gaming session but overall it can ruin your whole system.

Yes, Windows Desktop Manager adds 16ms input lag to the mouse, and I tested it in game, difference is massssive, response time is like INSTANT when you compare it. But in my game I have played I had these 2 sec freeze every 20-30 minutes... Couldn't play with this unfortunately..

i was using DWM killer script which was killing all needed processes like Search, windows shell experience host, Start, etc, and activate old alt tab layout.
but as I said it was freezing my whole screen in game for 1-2 sec every 30 min. It was unplayable if u play competive, HOWEVER mouse response time was amazing... I regret knowing this, because I have this thing in mind and its hard to forget about it...

its like you are able to turn off input lag and be much better BUT you can't and you need to play with this invisible "v-sync" over your games

I didn't give up and still was looking for solution to fix the freezes but then somehow my whole system crashed, bsod, and my boot file got damaged, couldnt restart my pc, had to reinstall. end of story.
That might be true, but the method above is nothing like that. It's a very mild tweak in comparison and only seems to work on the game .exe itself. Everything else still has full functionality.. search, start menu etc etc.I personally would never go around and kill all those things but when I saw this super easy one you just enable on the .exe I was happy it was so simple.

No negative consequences as result of using it the past 2 days now.

forii
Posts: 218
Joined: 29 Jan 2020, 18:23

Re: I'M SO CLOSE TO FINISHING MY INPUT LAG!

Post by forii » 05 Feb 2021, 08:11

pervysage19 wrote:
04 Feb 2021, 17:07
forii wrote:
04 Feb 2021, 07:32
I don't recommend disabling DWM.exe on Windows 10. It might works if you use it for gaming session but overall it can ruin your whole system.

Yes, Windows Desktop Manager adds 16ms input lag to the mouse, and I tested it in game, difference is massssive, response time is like INSTANT when you compare it. But in my game I have played I had these 2 sec freeze every 20-30 minutes... Couldn't play with this unfortunately..

i was using DWM killer script which was killing all needed processes like Search, windows shell experience host, Start, etc, and activate old alt tab layout.
but as I said it was freezing my whole screen in game for 1-2 sec every 30 min. It was unplayable if u play competive, HOWEVER mouse response time was amazing... I regret knowing this, because I have this thing in mind and its hard to forget about it...

its like you are able to turn off input lag and be much better BUT you can't and you need to play with this invisible "v-sync" over your games

I didn't give up and still was looking for solution to fix the freezes but then somehow my whole system crashed, bsod, and my boot file got damaged, couldnt restart my pc, had to reinstall. end of story.
That might be true, but the method above is nothing like that. It's a very mild tweak in comparison and only seems to work on the game .exe itself. Everything else still has full functionality.. search, start menu etc etc.I personally would never go around and kill all those things but when I saw this super easy one you just enable on the .exe I was happy it was so simple.

No negative consequences as result of using it the past 2 days now.
Can you tell me exactly what you mean? The whole topic is made in kinda of chaotic way. All I could found and I can assume what you mean is this. Am I right?

Image

But you know this one registry key value doesnt change nothing? its not that you can't feel any difference but the Human Interface Device Service still working and showing the overlay.
DWM cannot not work if there is any services in the background like mentioned search, start menu etc.

If I miss something and there is some other simply way to disable dwm for specific .exe aplication, please help me. But I sadly doubt that, maybe because cod mw is dx12 game and has builded in FSO (due to dx12). :?:

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