I'M SO CLOSE TO FINISHING MY INPUT LAG!

Everything about latency. Tips, testing methods, mouse lag, display lag, game engine lag, network lag, whole input lag chain, VSYNC OFF vs VSYNC ON, and more! Input Lag Articles on Blur Busters.
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secretiveolwagner
Posts: 6
Joined: 05 Feb 2021, 03:22

Re: I'M SO CLOSE TO FINISHING MY INPUT LAG!

Post by secretiveolwagner » 05 Feb 2021, 08:50

forii wrote:
05 Feb 2021, 08:11
If I miss something and there is some other simply way to disable dwm for specific .exe aplication, please help me. But I sadly doubt that, maybe because cod mw is dx12 game and has builded in FSO (due to dx12). :?:
Your are right on that, I followed this guide viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7767&hilit=warzone&start=40 and run Warzone on my Windows 10 20H2 PC, but it would only run in fullscreen borderless mode instead, though the author showed he was able to run Warzone in fullscreen with DWM bypassed

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BTRY B 529th FA BN
Posts: 523
Joined: 18 Dec 2013, 13:28

Re: I'M SO CLOSE TO FINISHING MY INPUT LAG!

Post by BTRY B 529th FA BN » 05 Feb 2021, 12:06

Can DISABLEDWM be confirmed working even though it's still running via task manager?

EDIT: this is for Windows 10, correct?

forii
Posts: 218
Joined: 29 Jan 2020, 18:23

Re: I'M SO CLOSE TO FINISHING MY INPUT LAG!

Post by forii » 05 Feb 2021, 12:35

secretiveolwagner wrote:
05 Feb 2021, 08:50
forii wrote:
05 Feb 2021, 08:11
If I miss something and there is some other simply way to disable dwm for specific .exe aplication, please help me. But I sadly doubt that, maybe because cod mw is dx12 game and has builded in FSO (due to dx12). :?:
Your are right on that, I followed this guide viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7767&hilit=warzone&start=40 and run Warzone on my Windows 10 20H2 PC, but it would only run in fullscreen borderless mode instead, though the author showed he was able to run Warzone in fullscreen with DWM bypassed
I don't know what this guide has to do with dwm, its fast sync tutorial, Fast sync is good if you can double ur Hz of monitor with ur fps or at least if you have much more. Like 144hz and u have always 160+ fps. But it has nothing to do with dwm. Can you tell me if ur dwm.exe is running while u are in game? Check in task manager
BTRY B 529th FA BN wrote:
05 Feb 2021, 12:06
Can DISABLEDWM be confirmed working even though it's still running via task manager?

EDIT: this is for Windows 10, correct?
And this is good question. I knew its placebo but not me to judge, maybe I miss something in this thread to make it work for specific .exe application.

(Yes its for win 10 cuz in win 7 all u need to do to disable "dwm" its just disable aero peek.)

secretiveolwagner
Posts: 6
Joined: 05 Feb 2021, 03:22

Re: I'M SO CLOSE TO FINISHING MY INPUT LAG!

Post by secretiveolwagner » 05 Feb 2021, 18:03

forii wrote:
05 Feb 2021, 12:35
secretiveolwagner wrote:
05 Feb 2021, 08:50
forii wrote:
05 Feb 2021, 08:11
If I miss something and there is some other simply way to disable dwm for specific .exe aplication, please help me. But I sadly doubt that, maybe because cod mw is dx12 game and has builded in FSO (due to dx12). :?:
Your are right on that, I followed this guide viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7767&hilit=warzone&start=40 and run Warzone on my Windows 10 20H2 PC, but it would only run in fullscreen borderless mode instead, though the author showed he was able to run Warzone in fullscreen with DWM bypassed
I don't know what this guide has to do with dwm, its fast sync tutorial, Fast sync is good if you can double ur Hz of monitor with ur fps or at least if you have much more. Like 144hz and u have always 160+ fps. But it has nothing to do with dwm. Can you tell me if ur dwm.exe is running while u are in game? Check in task manager
BTRY B 529th FA BN wrote:
05 Feb 2021, 12:06
Can DISABLEDWM be confirmed working even though it's still running via task manager?

EDIT: this is for Windows 10, correct?
And this is good question. I knew its placebo but not me to judge, maybe I miss something in this thread to make it work for specific .exe application.

(Yes its for win 10 cuz in win 7 all u need to do to disable "dwm" its just disable aero peek.)
It was someone else (pox02) in the same thread who responded that he figured out how to bypass dwm in nvidia inspector, see here viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7767&p=60585#p60585

forii
Posts: 218
Joined: 29 Jan 2020, 18:23

Re: I'M SO CLOSE TO FINISHING MY INPUT LAG!

Post by forii » 06 Feb 2021, 10:40

secretiveolwagner wrote:
05 Feb 2021, 18:03
forii wrote:
05 Feb 2021, 12:35
secretiveolwagner wrote:
05 Feb 2021, 08:50
forii wrote:
05 Feb 2021, 08:11
If I miss something and there is some other simply way to disable dwm for specific .exe aplication, please help me. But I sadly doubt that, maybe because cod mw is dx12 game and has builded in FSO (due to dx12). :?:
Your are right on that, I followed this guide viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7767&hilit=warzone&start=40 and run Warzone on my Windows 10 20H2 PC, but it would only run in fullscreen borderless mode instead, though the author showed he was able to run Warzone in fullscreen with DWM bypassed
I don't know what this guide has to do with dwm, its fast sync tutorial, Fast sync is good if you can double ur Hz of monitor with ur fps or at least if you have much more. Like 144hz and u have always 160+ fps. But it has nothing to do with dwm. Can you tell me if ur dwm.exe is running while u are in game? Check in task manager
BTRY B 529th FA BN wrote:
05 Feb 2021, 12:06
Can DISABLEDWM be confirmed working even though it's still running via task manager?

EDIT: this is for Windows 10, correct?
And this is good question. I knew its placebo but not me to judge, maybe I miss something in this thread to make it work for specific .exe application.

(Yes its for win 10 cuz in win 7 all u need to do to disable "dwm" its just disable aero peek.)
It was someone else (pox02) in the same thread who responded that he figured out how to bypass dwm in nvidia inspector, see here viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7767&p=60585#p60585
yes but he said he is using win 7 and its hard to break dwm in win10, so im not sure it works with win 10

Bobo
Posts: 83
Joined: 05 Jun 2018, 11:44

Re: I'M SO CLOSE TO FINISHING MY INPUT LAG!

Post by Bobo » 06 Feb 2021, 23:36

some things that for me made the mouse movement much better was disabling the spectre and meltdown stuff and also putting all the smartscreen filters to off.
Make a backup of the registry that you will modify, in case you want to revert them back

for spectre and meltdown:

Delete these files ( make a copy of them in case you want to revert it)

for intel
C:\Windows\System32 - mcupdate_GenuineIntel.dll
for AMD:
C:\Windows\System32 - mcupdate_AuthenticAMD.dll

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\kernel]
"DisableTsx"=dword:00000001

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management]
"FeatureSettingsOverrideMask"=dword:00000003
"FeatureSettingsOverride"=dword:00000003

for smartscreen:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer]
"SmartScreenEnabled"="Off"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\MicrosoftEdge\PhishingFilter]
"EnabledV9"=dword:00000000

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\AppHost]
"EnableWebContentEvaluation"=dword:00000000
"PreventOverride"=dword:00000000

empleat
Posts: 149
Joined: 28 Feb 2020, 21:06

Re: I'M SO CLOSE TO FINISHING MY INPUT LAG!

Post by empleat » 18 Feb 2021, 12:59

Bobo wrote:
06 Feb 2021, 23:36
Delete these files ( make a copy of them in case you want to revert it)

for intel
C:\Windows\System32 - mcupdate_GenuineIntel.dll
for AMD:
C:\Windows\System32 - mcupdate_AuthenticAMD.dll
Also you can use InSpectre.exe from GRC.com to disable both!
It is reputable security site, refferenced on other sites.

You can't disable Meltdown (as far as I know) on newer CPUs, it was patched in hardware: https://software.intel.com/security-sof ... -cpu-model

InSpectre says: You are not protected against meltdown - probably because there is no software patch.

I have Spectre protection on, because I read on newer CPUs performance degradation should be minimal. Not sure, if you even need the Spectre protection. I tried to disable it on older PC and it reduced input lag a lot! So if you are sure: you don't need it, you can disable it!

FSO:
OP's tweaks for disabling FSO works for me until DX12, you can check by enabling HID service (should be disabled otherwise for low input lag! If disabled: cause media keys and some USB devices to not work) and trying to change volume, or keyboard language, while in-game. If you don't see pop-out menu, FSO is disabled. Also you could tell probably by input lag! It helps a ton!

To add: after more googling I found, on DX12 devs can choose: which Fullscreen mode their game should use. Devs of some games chosen to not even code game to support Fullscreen Exclusive (good overlay). So now, in case they do: you are stuck with Hybrid Fullscreen mode (FSO)... And Vulkan has the same problem - I heard. Luckily there is not that many DX12 games there and some support DX11 still...

To disable FSO until and including DX11: https://www.mediafire.com/folder/ha89h1 ... 568l3enxuf

EDIT: hahaha folders are so long, that I have problem saving them on disk, because final path exceeding 260 characters. You can enable long path, but it could bug out programs - so I would rather not do that. Maybe I should have been saving these on my google disk :D But I never even saw this error in the first place :lol:
BTRY B 529th FA BN wrote:
05 Feb 2021, 12:06
Can DISABLEDWM be confirmed working even though it's still running via task manager?

EDIT: this is for Windows 10, correct?
I thought it was working, but I was doing some other changes at the time too. It doesn't!!! It is still running and consuming CPU.

However this helps a little bit with input lag: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4512

Had no problems running this weeks !

EDIT2:
For DX12 and Vulkan use "bordeless" fullscreen mode, there is chance Windows will activate a new MPO overlay. From Nvidia drivers 461.09.
https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers ... er-version

https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers ... ElMjElMjE=

EDIT3: It seems he changed structure and some files are missing now. Luckily I saved most of them on my google disk and windows. Google disk doesn't even tell me count of files inside lol, it is pain checking for files xDD

There is some folder called: a | Last-Update 28FEB2021 {Major Update To USB} {Wow-Fast}
I did not notice anything, anyone know what is he talking about, there is nothing about USB inside!

Also here is more about cppc, on never mobos it should be CPPC v2 automatically, if you enable P states in BIOS aka Intel Speed Shift. https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/my-in ... re.430848/

This can disable thumbnails completely on taskbar icons, instead not automatically showing them, check 2nd tweak:
https://winaero.com/how-to-disable-task ... indows-10/
To add: I believe this is called "Aero Peek", however after putting "NumThumbnails" to 0, it works only partially, therefore I will use "ExtendedUIHoverTime" = 30000 too. DisallowPeek for DWM doesn't work too!

PS: Just found this! If you want EPIC advanced tweaks: https://sites.google.com/view/melodystweaks/basictweaks
Haha basictweaks...

braavosraider
Posts: 11
Joined: 17 Jan 2021, 23:42

Re: I'M SO CLOSE TO FINISHING MY INPUT LAG!

Post by braavosraider » 20 Mar 2021, 04:38

RamenRider wrote:
28 Jun 2020, 21:37
So a bit about my journey, I made an input lag guide about it that you could read over there. https://community.amd.com/message/2958691

It's very outdated compared to the plethora of information I obtained in the past week. Also note I now have a 3900x Build with x570 and 5700xt.

I initially thought my input lag had something to do with Window's scheduler that affects Ryzen but no, it is DWM and will forever be DWM. Even if you disable FSO(Fullscreen Optimization) you will forever be cucked by DWM. Because it's BROKEN on Windows 10 since last year! Every time I thought I've gotten close to my problem, it returns! Even in Windows 8 and 7. They are rolling back these horrid input lag problems to older OS's too!

From my posts on the infamous Roach thread. https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-intel ... st28501998
THIS IS IT, I FINALLY FREAKING FOUND IT

THE PROBLEM IS FROM THE POS WINDOWS ITSELF

ALL WINDOWS VERSIONS ARE FOREVER BROKEN AND WILL IGNORE DISABLE FULLSCREEN OPTIMIZAITON
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comme ... e_disable/

Now all that's left is to get rid of the vysnc and dwm. Maybe if we can find a way to change the "High DPI Scaling"/DPI awareness back to before 1709, or disable it completely, it'll also be great for aiming. BRING BACK SCREEN TEARING.
There has to be even more registry tweaks to improve my performance! I've won all my ranked (masters OW) games so far. This registry tweak is insanely good. I say it's brought my input lag back to 90% potential. Here's my registry right now. I played around with it a bit like set DVR_enabled to 1 or added GameDVR_FSEBehavior, but this works fine for now. See [Picture Attatchment 1] My Input lag for gaming I'd say is around 85-90% fixed, but the overall responsiveness is still cursed. I guess the only way out is the scour the internet for a worthy ISO or maybe find a way to install my build correctly.

Here's 2 more options to fix disable fullscreen optimization on registry. https://www.reddit.com/r/PUBATTLEGROUND ... ullscreen/
I tried the 211 Flag thing on overwatch, but forgot to save my registry so I couldn't test it on and off.

So as you all know I compare input lag differences between builds, mostly AMD. I've had Everything from Dell Inspiron i3s - Athlon - FX - and all 3 Generations of Ryzen. The problem started when Windows started changing the way their DWM worked and for a while, all you needed to do was disable fullscreen optimization and that was it. Nowadays the input lag is apparent across the entire system from desktop to applications. This is what I call a CursedOS. They are even backrolling some of these changes to Windows 7 and Windows 8. There is something inherently wrong with different Windows versions/ISOs/updates/build configurations/or even installations that affect how well it performs.

Just a few days ago I went to my friend's house and tested his 3700x build and his girlfriend's 1600 build. His 3700x has much more input lag in both desktop and games even if using a 2080super. Her 1600 with rx 590 has phenomenal input lag, it felt so amazing to use; I haven't felt something so good in a long time. Her build didn't even need the registry tweaks, it was Perfect and disable fullscreen optimization worked great as intended. Even just using the mouse on the desktop felt incredible. They are both auto updated to the latest 1909 and their registries on GameConfigStore were identical.
The differences are that he built her that PC along time ago, back when the rx 590 came out or a bit before. His 3700x was built last year, so maybe like most of my newer installs, they all have input lag now because the ISOs that microsoft put out are all garbage Cursed OS's. One thing that I did discover from this is that Freesync sometimes feels better enabled. Maybe it was just placebo. Attached are images of their GameConfigStore registries and systems.
Now these patches, I would say they are 75-85% effective at reducing desktop composition/DWM input lag. But you know what makes the biggest difference?

I downloaded 2016 LTSB and it's so damn good. No input lag in desktop or games! Sure scaling is broken and looks ugly, but everything is smooth and responsive especially in games. Went 61 elims and 33 final blows in an OW ranked match, haven't had this much fun in a long time. I could have been a pro but I just couldn't find the cause for the lag soon enough.

However, it was just a distant dream. The input lag returned the next day. Definitely from an update, even on 2016 LTSB it comes to haunt me. SMH, I knew I should have disabled updates completely with wpd.app or some other win10 privacy tool.

https://www.overclock.net/forum/6-intel ... st28513434
I did find this other general guide for removing stuttering from games. https://www.removeddit.com/r/Windows10/ ... sible_fix/

Within that guide it provides a bat file that can disable DWM on all applications on your system. However it doesn't really do much because Disable Fullscreen Optimization has been broken since 1903. https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comm ... mizations/

However someone from the ReviOS discord recommended me this tool that could potentially disable DWM, but I don't know how to use it or open it after I cloned it. https://github.com/Biswa96/Junkyard/blo ... /KillDwm.c

Lastly I found this method to disable DWM on certain applications. Much easier to do than the aforementioned tweaks. But I'm not sure if it worked or not. https://superuser.com/questions/1509013 ... ws-10-1903
After all of that, the answer was HERE In these forums. From a post made in 2018! viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4512
Update 2

Have done some further testings. Recreated the effect with only one DWM priority. Through the Process Hacker, the Priority was set to Idle. Changing the states of any other priorities was not needed. Although, when testing in-game, and constantly alt-tabbing from full screen and back, it would seem that, sometimes, the dwm.exe had to be restarted in order to get the effect (no need to leave the game, just service restart and then alt-tab back to the game).
I use AMD everything, so this is just still a temporary solution (I have the same problem as Update 2 but didn't do those nvidia tweaks) Having to restart DWM every session is kinda ehh. Will try 20.04 soon tho. My input lag is really great, used this DWM tweak on 1909, feels even better than the 2016 LTSB drive(well it was broken after the update anyways).

Also, I'm not sure but I believe old default AMD drivers might have less input lag than the drivers now.

UPDATE 8/07/2020

Someone sent me more settings. THIS IS IT. As close to 2015 performance. https://www.auslogics.com/en/articles/d ... n-windows/
Advanced Windows Users: (Win-Server2019 & Win-10)
Guide for replacing Windows's alt-tab resource wasting feature & replace with the one from XP.
Manual Guide By Windows Central
https://www.windowscentral.com/how-brin ... windows-10
-----------------------------------------------
Direct link- For those who don't want to mess around with editing Registry manually.
(XP= Basic) (Stock= Win 10 Stock)
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/r0ifq9zbku7cu/Alt_Tab
User: After applying Logout & then login again to take effect.
TO Undo: Don't worry if you don't like it double-click the win 10 stock file & changes value back to "0" (Back to stock)

Unsure if it saves GPU or CPU or both, But has an extremely positive effect for sure.
Edit: (it disables all the alt-tab rendering features so probably a bit of both🤦‍♂️😂)
Hot-tip: Save all your favourite Reg tweaks to a USB-Stick for super-quick deployment on a new PC / Fresh Install.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I can imagine APU's would really benefit from this.
Change to Classic Alt Tab Windows 10 Add dwords AltTabSettings value 1.jpg

This guy sent me all the best damn tweaks too. 20.04 Updated every week.

[*]Scripts for disabling DWM.
[*]Disable Game DVR
[*]System Visual Options for Raw Performance
[*]Windows HW Accelerated Effects
[*]Classic AltTab fix

This is all of them compiled into one download. https://www.mediafire.com/folder/ha89h1 ... limWindows

The Universe is really treating me well right now. I'm finding all of the ways to Disable DWM. Will add all of them to the OP as well. viewtopic.php?p=54666#p54666
dude I'm pretty confused right now, can you add tldr which setting needed to change? can you just keep it on 1 source since it is pretty overwhelming to click those links you provided

empleat
Posts: 149
Joined: 28 Feb 2020, 21:06

Re: I'M SO CLOSE TO FINISHING MY INPUT LAG!

Post by empleat » 20 Mar 2021, 21:19

braavosraider wrote:
20 Mar 2021, 04:38
dude I'm pretty confused right now, can you add tldr which setting needed to change? can you just keep it on 1 source since it is pretty overwhelming to click those links you provided
I had the same request, but It is not his disk. You will have to google them one by one, to find out what each of them exactly does! Same you don't want to apply tweaks you don't know - what they will do! Also best is to test 1 tweak at the time anyways, so you can see, if it helped, or if it was a bad tweak! Make backup first! If you have any questions about tweaks just ask. There are some pretty advanced tweaks google didn't find anything about and they are not explained. But also many useful stuff, which is easy to apply!

I can give you overview:

I would start with this viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4512
And check DWM+explorer sections in disk, also check somewhere xp alt+tab and taskbar preview.

Check in SlimWindowsSystem Options/ Animations & Theme Options:
- explorer tweaks
- dwm tweaks
- applications options/gamebar.../honoruserfullscreensettings (you need to also check in compatibility tab to disable Fullscreen Optimizations - check my post above
- same section disableDVR,gameBAR,presence writer etc.
- https://github.com/microsoft/mimalloc (didn't have time to try yet, but I met with mallocs before, it can increase performance greatly!)

Also you can ask him on his twitter about some tweaks you have questions: https://twitter.com/lowspecchaos?lang=en

braavosraider
Posts: 11
Joined: 17 Jan 2021, 23:42

Re: I'M SO CLOSE TO FINISHING MY INPUT LAG!

Post by braavosraider » 21 Mar 2021, 01:02

empleat wrote:
20 Mar 2021, 21:19
braavosraider wrote:
20 Mar 2021, 04:38
dude I'm pretty confused right now, can you add tldr which setting needed to change? can you just keep it on 1 source since it is pretty overwhelming to click those links you provided
I had the same request, but It is not his disk. You will have to google them one by one, to find out what each of them exactly does! Same you don't want to apply tweaks you don't know - what they will do! Also best is to test 1 tweak at the time anyways, so you can see, if it helped, or if it was a bad tweak! Make backup first! If you have any questions about tweaks just ask. There are some pretty advanced tweaks google didn't find anything about and they are not explained. But also many useful stuff, which is easy to apply!

I can give you overview:

I would start with this viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4512
And check DWM+explorer sections in disk, also check somewhere xp alt+tab and taskbar preview.

Check in SlimWindowsSystem Options/ Animations & Theme Options:
- explorer tweaks
- dwm tweaks
- applications options/gamebar.../honoruserfullscreensettings (you need to also check in compatibility tab to disable Fullscreen Optimizations - check my post above
- same section disableDVR,gameBAR,presence writer etc.
- https://github.com/microsoft/mimalloc (didn't have time to try yet, but I met with mallocs before, it can increase performance greatly!)

Also you can ask him on his twitter about some tweaks you have questions: https://twitter.com/lowspecchaos?lang=en
So do I just need to test each tweak from the beginning of the INPUT LAG journey?? since the OP post looks like storyline do all the tweaks still need to be implemented, especially older one like here https://community.amd.com/message/2958691 or just follow the latest one?

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