What are the typical lag input delays on computers? + I measured mine

[MaxTendency]

If a game was developed properly and you're using Windows 10, then running it in borderless mode should incur no lag penalty. But if you're on W7 or W8, or the game is incompatible with the W10 DWM enhancements, then there's no way around the DWM composition latency.

On w7 you can just permanently disable dwm. I'm very certain it can be done in w8 /8.1 as well but with a few extra steps. You can disable dwm on w10 as well, but somethings breaks or bugs out. Best to disable it before gaming and enabling it afterwards on w10.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7033&start=50#p54439

[Brainlet]

Sadly all these attempts by Microsoft to fix their mess are futile because most game developers arent up to date with their latency mitigation strategies and stick to the old ways which just run far superior on Windows 7 without DWM in exclusive FS...

[Unixko]

nah man dmw is placebo

DWM is definitely not placebo when it comes to latency and performance. Microsoft has been trying to offer ways to bypass DWM in Windows 10 due to its impact. "Fullscreen Optimizations" for example, which converts fullscreen exclusive ("FSE") to borderless incurs a DWM overhead and thus MS has changed how DWM works in Windows 10 and it tries to disable itself when possible. From the MS dev blog:

To get back this performance overhead, we enhanced the DWM to recognize when a game is running in a borderless full screen window with no other applications on the screen. In this circumstance, the DWM gives control of the display and almost all the CPU/GPU power to the game. Which in turn allows equivalent performance to running a game in FSE.

However, it's not fully automatic. The game needs to be using the correct flip model, as described in another Microsoft article:

These are optimizations that are enabled for applications using flip model swapchains. Depending on window and buffer configuration, it is possible to bypass desktop composition entirely, and directly send application frames to the screen, in the same way that exclusive fullscreen does.

...

Once your swapchain has been “DirectFlipped“, then the DWM can go to sleep, and only wake up when something changes outside of your application. Your app frames are sent directly to screen, independently, with the same efficiency as fullscreen exclusive.

If a game was developed properly and you're using Windows 10, then running it in borderless mode should incur no lag penalty. But if you're on W7 or W8, or the game is incompatible with the W10 DWM enhancements, then there's no way around the DWM composition latency.

i just want to fix my mouse floatly sluggish everywhere deskop bios ingame dmw doesnt change anything for me

[Conan]

how do you disable it before gaming and then enable it afterwards?
i mean, why just not leave it disabled?
what, you just kill the process/service? and turn it back on afterwards?

[deama]

i just want to fix my mouse floatly sluggish everywhere deskop bios ingame dmw doesnt change anything for me

Maybe it's something to do with the USB polling being bad in that particular port? Have you tried other USB slots for your mouse?

how do you disable it before gaming and then enable it afterwards?
i mean, why just not leave it disabled?
what, you just kill the process/service? and turn it back on afterwards?

You can write a simple .bat script that disables dwm temporarily, then you can just hotkey the script using autohotkey onto a key on your keyboard and voila, you disable/enable dwm by pressing just a button.

[Conan]

You can write a simple .bat script that disables dwm temporarily

I can't.

But thanks tho, I hope I won't break something by disabling it.

[deama]

You can write a simple .bat script that disables dwm temporarily

I can't.

But thanks tho, I hope I won't break something by disabling it.

I can give you mine that disables it until you restart, though it's for windows 8.1.

[Mr1991]

nah man dmw is placebo

DWM is definitely not placebo when it comes to latency and performance. Microsoft has been trying to offer ways to bypass DWM in Windows 10 due to its impact. "Fullscreen Optimizations" for example, which converts fullscreen exclusive ("FSE") to borderless incurs a DWM overhead and thus MS has changed how DWM works in Windows 10 and it tries to disable itself when possible. From the MS dev blog:

To get back this performance overhead, we enhanced the DWM to recognize when a game is running in a borderless full screen window with no other applications on the screen. In this circumstance, the DWM gives control of the display and almost all the CPU/GPU power to the game. Which in turn allows equivalent performance to running a game in FSE.

However, it's not fully automatic. The game needs to be using the correct flip model, as described in another Microsoft article:

These are optimizations that are enabled for applications using flip model swapchains. Depending on window and buffer configuration, it is possible to bypass desktop composition entirely, and directly send application frames to the screen, in the same way that exclusive fullscreen does.

...

Once your swapchain has been “DirectFlipped“, then the DWM can go to sleep, and only wake up when something changes outside of your application. Your app frames are sent directly to screen, independently, with the same efficiency as fullscreen exclusive.

If a game was developed properly and you're using Windows 10, then running it in borderless mode should incur no lag penalty. But if you're on W7 or W8, or the game is incompatible with the W10 DWM enhancements, then there's no way around the DWM composition latency.

i just want to fix my mouse floatly sluggish everywhere deskop bios ingame dmw doesnt change anything for me

Manually set pci gen settings to gen 3 if your bios allows it, HPET off in bios, aswell as Legacy boot instead of UEFI if you want less of a "floaty" mouse feeling. Use hdmi instead of displayport, usb 2 instead of 3, also, cpu/ram voltage has an effect on mouse movement, higher voltages lower the deadzone, thus making it more "floaty", so if you don't want that you can try lowering it if possible.

And then you also want the right ram timings.

[Unixko]

nah man dmw is placebo

DWM is definitely not placebo when it comes to latency and performance. Microsoft has been trying to offer ways to bypass DWM in Windows 10 due to its impact. "Fullscreen Optimizations" for example, which converts fullscreen exclusive ("FSE") to borderless incurs a DWM overhead and thus MS has changed how DWM works in Windows 10 and it tries to disable itself when possible. From the MS dev blog:

To get back this performance overhead, we enhanced the DWM to recognize when a game is running in a borderless full screen window with no other applications on the screen. In this circumstance, the DWM gives control of the display and almost all the CPU/GPU power to the game. Which in turn allows equivalent performance to running a game in FSE.

However, it's not fully automatic. The game needs to be using the correct flip model, as described in another Microsoft article:

These are optimizations that are enabled for applications using flip model swapchains. Depending on window and buffer configuration, it is possible to bypass desktop composition entirely, and directly send application frames to the screen, in the same way that exclusive fullscreen does.

...

Once your swapchain has been “DirectFlipped“, then the DWM can go to sleep, and only wake up when something changes outside of your application. Your app frames are sent directly to screen, independently, with the same efficiency as fullscreen exclusive.

If a game was developed properly and you're using Windows 10, then running it in borderless mode should incur no lag penalty. But if you're on W7 or W8, or the game is incompatible with the W10 DWM enhancements, then there's no way around the DWM composition latency.

i just want to fix my mouse floatly sluggish everywhere deskop bios ingame dmw doesnt change anything for me

Manually set pci gen settings to gen 3 if your bios allows it, HPET off in bios, aswell as Legacy boot instead of UEFI if you want less of a "floaty" mouse feeling. Use hdmi instead of displayport, usb 2 instead of 3, also, cpu/ram voltage has an effect on mouse movement, higher voltages lower the deadzone, thus making it more "floaty", so if you don't want that you can try lowering it if possible.

And then you also want the right ram timings.

pci gen is 3 hpet in bios is on off in OS for sync timer i have legacy boot hdmi i can try 2.0 for 240 hz idk if will be better i play with 2.0 usb with my mouse and keyboard and higher voltages i have my numbers here https://ctrlv.sk/g4Xn motherboard had 1.16 but processor had 1.36 vcore for some reason ram is 1.024 thats ok i think should i lower my vcore in CPU for which number for 4ghz?

[Mr1991]

Try HPET off in bios, dw about synced times.