Graphic card p-states, screen stutters

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fluidz
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Joined: 19 Jan 2018, 13:11

Graphic card p-states, screen stutters

Post by fluidz » 24 Aug 2020, 10:15

Hi Blurbusters,

When I'm scrolling the web (any web browser) or using google maps in the browser, the screen stutters each time my GPU core clocks boost from low to high speed. The memory and core clock speeds of my 2080ti keep jumping to 1350/1750, with the smallest amount of activity, such as scrolling a webpage with nothing but text, and when that clock speed change happens, for some unknown reason, the screen stutters.

I would like to know if any of you guys with an 2080ti Nvidia card and a high refresh rate monitor can reproduce this issue. You need to be using the default power plan in Nvidia Control panel. Gsync can be on or off. Please take a minute to test this out.

1 - Open Firefox (any version) or Edge (new Edge)
2 - Open Gpu-z or a Gpu monitoring utility, keep it on top so you can monitor the core/mem speeds
3 - Open Google maps, go to any location, zoom out so you can see the earth
4 - Wait a few seconds (approx 3-9), let the Nvidia card drop the memory clock speed to around 101mhz
5 - Drag the map once, any direction, with the mouse cursor
6 - Repeat steps 4 and 5 a few times

Image

Question 1 -

After dragging the map to a new location, look at GPU-Z, do the core clocks instantly boost to 1350mhz/1750mhz (low level 3d clockspeed)?

Question 2 -

If you answered yes to question 1, at the same time the clock speeds boost to 1350mhz/1750mhz, is there a screen stutter? Judder?

This is what is happening when I'm browsing the web or using google maps. I'm not sure if its my hardware at fault, as I have tested two 2080ti's and a GT710, and I can reproduce the stuttering on two totally different machines, intel 4770k/ryzen 3700x, ddr3/ddr4, corsair rm850/corsair rm850x, tested an handful of different Nvidia drivers and also reinstalled Windows 1809/1909/2004 on both machines at least 3 times for each version. I have tested two different monitors too. I tested onboard intel graphics on my intel machine and the stuttering doesn't happen, the intel card doesn't boost in speed at all. It's only happening with my Nvidia cards, however I haven't tested an Amd card yet. I initially thought it was a Firefox issue, and started testing different configurations, such as web render on and off, testing Nightly builds which the devs recommended, which never worked, but I have been able to reproduce it on all web browsers. The issue seems to be the Nvidia card is unable to smooth transition from a low clock speed to a high clock speed without causing a stutter.

The only way to stop the stuttering is to force my Nvidia card to prefer maximum performance, locking the core clock speeds to a minimum of 1350/1750, which shouldn't be necessary.

If other people are seeing the same then I can put my mind at rest.

Related thread - https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/nvidi ... er.433381/

Thanks.

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Re: Graphic card p-states, screen stutters

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 24 Aug 2020, 19:21

Graphics and CPU power states can have an effect.

The p-state changes can have realtime latency-change and stutter effects, indeed.

This is normally not a problem in most games, but a low-GPU game capped at a low framerate can cause this, as well as things like desktop web browsing too. This is very desirable on a laptop but can be undesirable for a high end gaming machine.

TestUFO Frame Rendering Times can show weird artifacts of the p-states of CPU+GPU combination
www.testufo.com/animation-time-graph#sc ... busywait=0
Run this on a laptop or desktop in Power Saver Mode, and you can see the p-states change in realtime even from things like moving mouse arrow or scrolling a 2nd window, etc.

To prevent this from happening, one can turn off the power management and force clocks at maximum. This can gobble power, so it is best to use apps that toggle power management -- for example Intel Extreme Tuning Utility has an App-Profile Pairing feature that can help here. And simply use your computer's idle sleep mode (15 minute or so) to do the power management rather than aggressively while you're using the computer.
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axaro1
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Re: Graphic card p-states, screen stutters

Post by axaro1 » 26 Aug 2020, 10:35

Have you tried disabling ULPS(with the registry editor or Msi Afterburner)?
XL2546K 1080p 240hz TN (MAIN) | VG259QM 1080p 280hz IPS | XG2402 1080p 144hz TN | LS24F350 1080p 72hz LPS

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fluidz
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Joined: 19 Jan 2018, 13:11

Re: Graphic card p-states, screen stutters

Post by fluidz » 27 Aug 2020, 18:12

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
24 Aug 2020, 19:21
Graphics and CPU power states can have an effect.

The p-state changes can have realtime latency-change and stutter effects, indeed.

This is normally not a problem in most games, but a low-GPU game capped at a low framerate can cause this, as well as things like desktop web browsing too. This is very desirable on a laptop but can be undesirable for a high end gaming machine.

TestUFO Frame Rendering Times can show weird artifacts of the p-states of CPU+GPU combination
www.testufo.com/animation-time-graph#sc ... busywait=0
Run this on a laptop or desktop in Power Saver Mode, and you can see the p-states change in realtime even from things like moving mouse arrow or scrolling a 2nd window, etc.

To prevent this from happening, one can turn off the power management and force clocks at maximum. This can gobble power, so it is best to use apps that toggle power management -- for example Intel Extreme Tuning Utility has an App-Profile Pairing feature that can help here. And simply use your computer's idle sleep mode (15 minute or so) to do the power management rather than aggressively while you're using the computer.
Thanks for the suggestions, I appreciate the detailed reply. However, I was hoping to see if others have the same issue in the web browser, that's why I asked some questions. Does the same happen to you when using an Nvidia card? Cheers.

Edit -

I tested the frametimes link, handy tool, thanks :)

For some reason i'm seeing huge random spikes, in both New edge and Firefox, even when the power plan is set to any of the power plans, including Ryzen balanced and Ryzen high performance. Is this normal?

Screenshots below are from New edge, when the pc is sitting idle.

Power saving mode -

Image

Ryzen high performance -

Image
Last edited by fluidz on 27 Aug 2020, 18:22, edited 2 times in total.

fluidz
Posts: 14
Joined: 19 Jan 2018, 13:11

Re: Graphic card p-states, screen stutters

Post by fluidz » 27 Aug 2020, 18:13

axaro1 wrote:
26 Aug 2020, 10:35
Have you tried disabling ULPS(with the registry editor or Msi Afterburner)?
Is that similar to setting Nvidia's profile to prefer maximum performance? I haven't heard of ulps before.

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Re: Graphic card p-states, screen stutters

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 28 Aug 2020, 16:56

fluidz wrote:
27 Aug 2020, 18:12
For some reason i'm seeing huge random spikes, in both New edge and Firefox, even when the power plan is set to any of the power plans, including Ryzen balanced and Ryzen high performance. Is this normal?
Alas, it is normal for most web browsers. They set priority of other processing higher than some of the drawing operations, so more volatility is expected in a browser than in a game. They are very sensitive to other processing activity. Close all tabs, all apps, make sure the browser is the only window running, and only on that webpage.

Generally, spikes should generally occur a little less often in performance mode. But they will still occur, from various background processing operations.

Forcing maximum performance will burn a lot more electricity even in idle mode, so be noted about this.

You can compensate somewhat by having a computer-sleep-on-idle (15 minute or 20 minute timeout) so when you're away from the computer, the computer will save power by going to sleep.
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

       To support Blur Busters:
       • Official List of Best Gaming Monitors
       • List of G-SYNC Monitors
       • List of FreeSync Monitors
       • List of Ultrawide Monitors

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