NVIDIA Reflex Low Latency - How It Works & Why You Want To Use It

Everything about latency. Tips, testing methods, mouse lag, display lag, game engine lag, network lag, whole input lag chain, VSYNC OFF vs VSYNC ON, and more! Input Lag Articles on Blur Busters.
NIghtcorey
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Re: NVIDIA Reflex Low Latency - How It Works & Why You Want To Use It

Post by NIghtcorey » 28 Mar 2021, 13:41

jorimt wrote:
28 Mar 2021, 09:30
NIghtcorey wrote:
28 Mar 2021, 03:32
I am still not sure after reading this, whether we should do some changes in Valorant in regards to the article for Optimal G-Sync settings.
My optimal G-SYNC settings were never directly intended for competitive shooters, they were intended for G-SYNC, which only has one optimal no-tear, low-lag single frame delivery configuration: G-SYNC on + V-SYNC on + minimum -3 FPS limit of current max refresh. So if you're using G-SYNC for comp shooters, and want the lowest lag no-tear method possible, that's still the most optimal setup.

Settings involving the pre-rendered frames queue, such as LLM and Reflex, were never directly related to G-SYNC input lag, and cause separate lag via the render queue that you'd get in any GPU-bound scenario, with or without G-SYNC. I only ever added recommendations for such settings to my Optimal G-SYNC settings upon repeat request for completion's sake.

If your GPU isn't maxed in Valorant, and your system can sustain the framerate at the set FPS limit, neither LLM nor Reflex will do much of anything until your GPU maxes out and your framerate drops below your set limit.

Since it's very easy to reach very high framerates on most configurations in Valorant, my assumption is the devs added Reflex for 1) marketing purposes, and 2) for situations where users are playing with G-SYNC off + VSYNC off + uncapped FPS, so when they reach very high framerates on a moderately performing PC, render queue input lag won't increase when/if the GPU usage maxes out.

As for LLM vs. Reflex, the latter is intended as a complete replacement to the former, so if you have Reflex enabled, it entirely overrides LLM, regardless of what it's set to.

Makes perfect sense now Jorimt, thanks for this explanation.

I think I'll stick to G-SYNC.

I thought my GPU would (with i9 9900k) would be able to sustain more than 240 FPS (my monitor is 240 Hz), but I do see it sometimes drop below and I assume this is quite bad, right? If I were to go with miminal Input lag (aka GSYNC OFF and VSYNC OFF with Unlimited FPS).

Thanks

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jorimt
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Re: NVIDIA Reflex Low Latency - How It Works & Why You Want To Use It

Post by jorimt » 28 Mar 2021, 14:44

NIghtcorey wrote:
28 Mar 2021, 13:41
I do see it sometimes drop below and I assume this is quite bad, right? If I were to go with miminal Input lag (aka GSYNC OFF and VSYNC OFF with Unlimited FPS).
Only if your GPU usage maxes out in those instances, which would increase the render queue. To prevent this, enable Reflex as fallback for preventing render queue input lag.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

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Re: NVIDIA Reflex Low Latency - How It Works & Why You Want To Use It

Post by jorimt » 28 Mar 2021, 19:36

@NIghtcorey, ha, sorry, I spaced and accidentally answered your latest post by editing said post directly instead of replying (so I answered you...as you; postception), thus I had to delete it. If you're still not clear on something, please ask again, and I'll make a correct reply this time.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

NIghtcorey
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Re: NVIDIA Reflex Low Latency - How It Works & Why You Want To Use It

Post by NIghtcorey » 29 Mar 2021, 01:08

jorimt wrote:
28 Mar 2021, 19:36
@NIghtcorey, ha, sorry, I spaced and accidentally answered your latest post by editing said post directly instead of replying (so I answered you...as you; postception), thus I had to delete it. If you're still not clear on something, please ask again, and I'll make a correct reply this time.
Hej Jorimt, no worries -- this is what I wrote :)

Hmm. Actually, I don't beleive my GPU maxes out at those moments, it's just the regular frame drops during shoot-outs with players. My GPU does not seem to be working hard when playing VAL, I have everything set to LOW tho.

I just tested again with GSYNC OFF and VSYNC OFF (also Reflex OFF and LLM OFF) and capped my FPS to 300. I actually prefer this way more. It feels my aim is more 'snappier' or at least it feels like there is less input lag, even though these are probably miliseconds, but the feel is better.

Enabling Reflex while GSYNC OFF and VSYNC OFF makes sense also if 90% of time my FPS will be above my Monitor's refresh rate? Or does it add some unnecessary input lag? I wonder what Valorant PRO players use :)

Thanks.

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Re: NVIDIA Reflex Low Latency - How It Works & Why You Want To Use It

Post by jorimt » 29 Mar 2021, 08:44

NIghtcorey wrote:
29 Mar 2021, 01:08
Enabling Reflex while GSYNC OFF and VSYNC OFF makes sense also if 90% of time my FPS will be above my Monitor's refresh rate? Or does it add some unnecessary input lag?
Reflex shouldn't add any input lag in non-GPU-bound situations, so you should be safe to enable it as fallback for any time the GPU may max out (if even for a moment), as to reduce render queue input lag.

Also, regarding framerate above your refresh rate, Reflex behavior is not tied directly to refresh or framerate, only to how saturated your GPU usage is; if a very demanding game maxes your GPU with a framerate within the refresh rate, or a less demanding game only maxes your GPU after the framerate is several hundred frames above your refresh rate, Reflex will work the same way to reduce render queue input lag regardless.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

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lyrill
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Re: NVIDIA Reflex Low Latency - How It Works & Why You Want To Use It

Post by lyrill » 29 Mar 2021, 09:28

hey i saw this post on top in this lobby, why has the incompatibility of 8khz not mentioned still? is Nvidia at all aware of this cus I mean this is quite a farce nearly half a year past. still only 11 mice supported, with DAv2 PRO and GPXS SPECIFICALLY noted "wireless, not supported", i mean even a copycat of a GPW copycat of an Acer release support both, although I question how it could possibly support wired 2khz.

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Re: NVIDIA Reflex Low Latency - How It Works & Why You Want To Use It

Post by jorimt » 29 Mar 2021, 09:54

lyrill wrote:
29 Mar 2021, 09:28
hey i saw this post on top in this lobby, why has the incompatibility of 8khz not mentioned still? is Nvidia at all aware of this cus I mean this is quite a farce nearly half a year past. still only 11 mice supported, with DAv2 PRO and GPXS SPECIFICALLY noted "wireless, not supported", i mean even a copycat of a GPW copycat of an Acer release support both, although I question how it could possibly support wired 2khz.
Not sure, but FYI, this thread in particular involves discussion on the pre-rendered frames queue-side of the Reflex settings, not the latency/mouse testing-side (why Nvidia decided to lump the naming together is beyond me).
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

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lyrill
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Re: NVIDIA Reflex Low Latency - How It Works & Why You Want To Use It

Post by lyrill » 29 Mar 2021, 13:01

jorimt wrote:
29 Mar 2021, 09:54
lyrill wrote:
29 Mar 2021, 09:28
hey i saw this post on top in this lobby, why has the incompatibility of 8khz not mentioned still? is Nvidia at all aware of this cus I mean this is quite a farce nearly half a year past. still only 11 mice supported, with DAv2 PRO and GPXS SPECIFICALLY noted "wireless, not supported", i mean even a copycat of a GPW copycat of an Acer release support both, although I question how it could possibly support wired 2khz.
Not sure, but FYI, this thread in particular involves discussion on the pre-rendered frames queue-side of the Reflex settings, not the latency/mouse testing-side (why Nvidia decided to lump the naming together is beyond me).
ok sorry about that. But yes I agree they lump too many things together just trying to sell their "ecosystem" well people have been angry over rtx30 launch so good for them and good luck with all that....... in any case, still if you are aware of why they lag behind on this would be cool to know (pm me or something). not that I am honestly gonna die from not finding out in any way you know I mean it's just digital gaems. kek. Either they know and don't care or they don't know and don't care. I feel worthless to even try. No I don't owe Razer or any brand anything I'm pretty sure I care/cared about this whole gaming sharade more than all of their brand reps combined.

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Re: NVIDIA Reflex Low Latency - How It Works & Why You Want To Use It

Post by jorimt » 29 Mar 2021, 22:59

lyrill wrote:
29 Mar 2021, 13:01
if you are aware of why they lag behind on this would be cool to know (pm me or something). not that I am honestly gonna die from not finding out in any way you know I mean it's just digital gaems. kek. Either they know and don't care or they don't know and don't care. I feel worthless to even try. No I don't owe Razer or any brand anything I'm pretty sure I care/cared about this whole gaming sharade more than all of their brand reps combined.
I don't personally know why they don't support the 8Khz mouse model, and I really have no way of knowing if/when they will, beyond what information they official release to everyone, but they do have a Reflex-compatible mouse database here:
https://github.com/NVIDIA/Reflex-Latenc ... e-Database

As well as a more general Reflex-compatibility hub here:
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/te ... -products/
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

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lyrill
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Re: NVIDIA Reflex Low Latency - How It Works & Why You Want To Use It

Post by lyrill » 30 Mar 2021, 00:37

yes...i'm aware of that github link and I didn't see any listing more extensive than nvidia website last time, do you have a specific link that lists that or?

And yes the nvidia page was where I quoted the 11 mice thing...

Today I just got told that nvidia reflex is literally a toy. if you are interested here's a read, you might need translator.

https://www.acfun.cn/a/ac17965268

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