I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

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mossfalt
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Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by mossfalt » 02 Feb 2021, 08:40

all these youtubers playing modern games that are not compatible with 8000 hz mouse, I just overclocked my vintage intellimouse explorer 3.0 mouse to 8000 hz polling rate and tested two old games (fallout 4 and Planetside 2) both of them work perfect, except for double clicking issue, and low fps :oops:

I would like that I could like small sized shoebox fps shooter games with high fps, so I could enjoy it even better.

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lyrill
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Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by lyrill » 02 Feb 2021, 08:43

i should remind people a simple fact, as i was reading through the now months dead ocn sister thread. dpi/ppi is a lot more important that hz, because when u are using 15x scope, which u will more if the industry goes the right direction and Jensen Huang was not bullshitting in rtx 30 launch about big grand vistas supported by next gen storage io tech and rendering tech from the likes of unreal 5(they may have stolen from pubg and made a kids version game but at least they provided the engine initially), u will realize that the fact that you need 15x scope at all is because things are too far away, you don't use it if you can zoom into someone's belly with ironsight. Yes I'm talking about the fact that using a low dpi or low hz or basically low grade io device is like going to the afgan desert using ironsight or waist firing regardless of scopes(cue xxgo legacy/ the shopping mall arcades, wait, I played games that had cover mechanics! I aimed a handgun at a screen that worked as at least 4+ different weapon types! with haptic feedback! pc master race you said?) pretending like you are in cqc/cqb/cqa(action), (i see myself out) (not really) ----anyways things are too far, so they move slower, but you need to see with more fidelity, much higher fidelity, think shooting for the stars, take gaming to the nth degree, what do you do? you prioritize clarity over refresh rate/latency. because let's face it, even though compared to better io gear, gpu and game development obviously takes a lot more Jensen Huang cash and my level of brain power in game design theories(which both the Mavericks Proving Ground guys and of course the PUBG guys who WERE panicking that Mavericks would become the real PUBG killer, had the good sense to respect and took note from) , it's still nowhere close to the century scale tech singularity needed to reduce global gaming latency (cue certain pandemic ban on LANs, either case the LANs are so 90s, don't get me wrong I was born in the 90s and I loved and miss the 90s, but it was always just fake peace and in any case it is gone) down to LAN level, that is, single digit that so many people crave, and did I mention Jensen Huang literally just admitted to peeker abuse? That is, after R6s themselves nerfed peek spam? That is, after the market abandoned the real fps--Delta Force (oh btw did I mention I just rewatched 2 Delta Force sniper elites feeding to a bunch of silver trench tier trash --no racism intended---because they are noobs who think going leeroy jenkins and babysitting some black hawk that already fed cus the generals were noobs makes them macho and HEROES NEVER DIE, gotta get dem purp harts karma), and even back then I remember R6s was a much more tactical and realistic game, and yes, when I say realistic, I mean immersive, I mean fun and engaging, I mean Issac Newton Laws of Physics abiding, I mean a balance that isn't up to Jeffos Kaplani's shower thoughts or brain farts or twisted trolling whims, I mean an audience that isn't tasteless and draws in more tasteful audience, high quality audience that doesn't treat gaming like low grade porn, as the guy who made quake who already quit in 2016(because he was never a good game designer, just a good coder) once did back in the 90s.

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axaro1
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Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by axaro1 » 03 Feb 2021, 03:20

Has anyone got his hands on the newly released Viper 8khz?
Any feedback with a 240hz monitor?
XL2546K 1080p 240hz TN (MAIN) | VG259QM 1080p 280hz IPS | XG2402 1080p 144hz TN | LS24F350 1080p 72hz LPS

R5 3600 4.35ghz 1.237V AVX stable | 3600mhz Hynix C-Die [CJR]https://i.imgur.com/R5Rm34i.png | 5700XT Gaming OC 2059mhz 1121mv[/color]

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lyrill
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Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by lyrill » 03 Feb 2021, 04:39

just to clarify and summarize the dpi/ppi vs hz situation we are in : monitors refresh rates are semi hard capped by people's skepticism and capabilities and tech, but all of these are relatively not a big deal. IN terms of comparing to mouse refresh rates, they are easily below the noise floor, as in mouse refresh rate tech is in a good place discounting semi soft cap by ecosystem which also eventually is not a cap at all.

but dpi while being infinitely scalable (you can make a huge mural in your back yard and project your home theater and nobody would care, or nobody cares if you want to lick whatever's on your screen-----you can make a game world infinitely big, and have scoping only render a segment of a distant galaxy for you at no dramatically extra cost than raw eye immediate skyscape around you--and that would justify the existence of a high fidelity and pixel count server side persistence) is instantly related to mouse dpi. in terms of noise, it's basically the same deal as having ultra high fidelity sensor matching ultra high thread count cloth pad/ultra smooth texture hard pad. you can't have a low dpi matching high screen ppi you would easily see the limitations, the jaggedness. Let me put it this way, using 20000dpi and 1/11 windows, you don't see any spaghetti as you would see with 5kdpi+ on 3399, but using 1800dpi and max windows, you literally see the cursor sampling in block groups of 4-8, going all Great Wall in areson. that's worse than spaghetti(which again can and should be optimized because there is definitely a sweet spot range for the best cm/360 because the left hand and arm and the right top arm barely even moves it does not constitute a harmonic posture at all). Now I don't need to tell you how your game works in low edpi, THAT was basically the idea, those who still argue that mouse companies have to cater to archaic titles that only support 125hz, and 8khz is a cash-grab and condemn-able to death.

In terms of dpi you can think of it like photo treatment and game engine AA. AA is by definition losing data, however you don't see bluriness when it's subpixel/zoomed out, you see a sharpness that's dialed too much. Some people prefer it, others think it takes away from the aesthetic and more importantly the realness. But also, there is a limit to how much the eye and the monitor can be affected by subpixel shenanigans. At a certain point no matter how much you dial the sharpness there's just not gonna be a difference anymore. On the other hand, when you zoom in, you cannot see blurring effect because blurring alias was mostly designed to work on the overall look, where you weren't staring at every detail, especially in motion where alias becomes more obvious and intruding and creates more problems. Of course the blur is always there and again, preferences and certain people believe that the natural and best intention of AA is the purpose of de-digitalizing and analog-interpreting digital data----the attempt to faithfully render realistic looks, even if there is less data than it were prior-----even if the process cost more computing power than if the source presented was able to be higher rez in the first place, which obviously is/was a storage issue

in any case, high dpi mouse, regardless of edpi, allows the better coupling of high ppi screen, where your movement is better reflected in an analog way and showcased, regardless of speed (compliments of already 10k+ fps ensuring that in each second you can present 10K+ perceivable mouse pad pattern changes that represent your hand/mouse position changes and it'd still pick all that up, and NOT skip any of it even if to mask your twitching or whatever -- which you can/should eliminate by just gitting guud --at the cost of also skipping effective and intended inputs, and lowering your effective skill ceiling, aka your human fidelity, which you should not forget was analog to begin with and thus should have been superior). Mouse is again basically serving like top tier dslr with ultra high pixel cmos, monitor is some sort of high pixel density display that let you examine the pictures you have taken in full glory as if reliving it. Of course in terms of gaming, this is real time action, but again please don't forget that gaming is a lot more than traditional sports and "reflex flexing" >.>. It's about the brain power, clairvoyance, foresight, calculation, intuition, artisque. That means you are not supposed to let the minute action take hold over more important things even if it appears like they are front and center.

hkngo007
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Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by hkngo007 » 03 Feb 2021, 19:09

Hello,

I just received my viper 8khz.

It's configured at 8Khz but on testing sites such as:

https://mouseinsider.com/mouse-polling-rate-checker/
I get max 5.6Khz and average 5Khz (doing circles).

https://zowie.benq.com/zh-tw/support/mo ... ecker.html
I get average 5Khz (doing circles).

Is this expected or normal??? Not sure how to check what it is running at in games? Any suggestions?

Game experience:
Only tried it in Bfront 2 and it is noticeable for me (i have a Model D minus @ 1000hz on 240Hz HP omen X 25f monitor).
It is smoother and slightlyyy more responsive (this could even just be the difference in buttons tbh), but the smoothness is noticeable in feel and visual in game.

1000hz feels more stuttery and inconsistent in comparison to 8Khz (or whatever it is running at- 5Khz?).

Will test more games, but definitely enjoying it so far. There hasnt been any magic so far in aiming (which i wasnt expecting) but it certainly feels nicer/smoother.

EDIT: also CPU usage increase dramatically.
At 1000hz its about 3-4%
at 4000Hz its about 10%
and 8000hz its about 14%
lol didn't expect this. Im running at 8700K at 4.7Ghz with 3733 memory dual rank/dual channel.

21 Feb UPDATE:
- very annoying issue when booting up ~ mouse is not detected, have to replug the mouse for it to work. I replicated this by turning off computer for 5 mins or so and rebooted - every single time.
Tried different USB ports, having mouse at 1000hz, disabled fast boot in BIOS. Apparently this is a common issue with Razer mice in general from the past.

- Games where 8Khz does not work for me (significant frame drops when moving, or sluggish/inaccurate movement):
==> Counterstrike
==> Battlefield V
==> Rising Storm 2
4Khz seems to work okay though for those games.
I decided i cant be bothered testing other games and use 4Khz uniform.

- windows - moving browsers from screen to screen is messed up at anything above 1Khz (it essentialy wont move across unless using significant force/speed). Tried disabling Snap Windows as per Razers troubleshooting thing. Doesnt help. So i use 1000hz profile for desktop.

Contemplating returning mouse due to re-plug issue. Never had a mice that has this problem - joke.
Had more time with 4Khz - still noticeable over 1Khz in terms of smoothness and slight input lag reduction (could be buttons as well), but hasn't affected my gameplay much, if any. But i do not want to go back to 1Khz if i could pick XD.

But yea if the replug mouse at boot is not fixed, will return.
Last edited by hkngo007 on 06 Feb 2021, 22:08, edited 1 time in total.

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MaxTendency
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Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by MaxTendency » 03 Feb 2021, 19:40

Boanerges wrote:
02 Feb 2021, 00:21
A question for the Chief. I notice that Razer suggest turning off G-Sync, FreeSync etc when using the Viper 8KHz at 8000Hz. Any thoughts or observations regarding this, particularly with the emphasis on G-Sync etc on Blur Busters. Did you (the Chief) try G-Sync on/off when testing the prototype. I've ordered a Viper 8KHz but as it hasn't arrived yet I haven't tested this.
G-Sync has performance issues with mice if their polling rate is too high. You get profound stuttering w/ G-Sync if you poll the mouse at >= 500 Hz in many graphics engines.

The problem has to do with games that use the hardware cursor. If that is drawn in G-Sync, and you move the mouse rapidly, your performance is going to go to hell in a handbasket.

If you can make sure the game never draws a mouse cursor, then it’s safe to use high polling rate with G-Sync. Otherwise, it’s going to cause problems.
-Kaldaien

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Razer_TheFiend
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Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by Razer_TheFiend » 03 Feb 2021, 23:13

hkngo007 wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 19:09
Hello,

I just received my viper 8khz.

It's configured at 8Khz but on testing sites such as:

https://mouseinsider.com/mouse-polling-rate-checker/
I get max 5.6Khz and average 5Khz (doing circles).

https://zowie.benq.com/zh-tw/support/mo ... ecker.html
I get average 5Khz (doing circles).

Is this expected or normal??? Not sure how to check what it is running at in games? Any suggestions?
Browser based tools aren't fast enough to accurately capture mouse reports that fast. You'll need to use a local application.
We made our internal polling rate test tool available to the public here : https://rzr.to/pollingrate

Or you can also try mousetester, if you prefer a third-party tool : https://github.com/microe1/MouseTester

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lyrill
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Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by lyrill » 04 Feb 2021, 01:25

Razer_TheFiend wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 23:13
hkngo007 wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 19:09
Hello,

I just received my viper 8khz.

It's configured at 8Khz but on testing sites such as:

https://mouseinsider.com/mouse-polling-rate-checker/
I get max 5.6Khz and average 5Khz (doing circles).

https://zowie.benq.com/zh-tw/support/mo ... ecker.html
I get average 5Khz (doing circles).

Is this expected or normal??? Not sure how to check what it is running at in games? Any suggestions?
Browser based tools aren't fast enough to accurately capture mouse reports that fast. You'll need to use a local application.
We made our internal polling rate test tool available to the public here : https://rzr.to/pollingrate

Or you can also try mousetester, if you prefer a third-party tool : https://github.com/microe1/MouseTester
i will reference on that because previously i already mentioned/observed that conventional 1khz mice easily caps to 1khz in the dynamic scaling nature at relatively moderate speed, however, the same speed now yields at least 2k-4k. maybe even 5k. that alone means up to 5x more agility on the average motion, and of course it can go even higher. it doesn't really go above 7500hz (that is, per your own in house tool which ironically doesn't even refresh fast, it's 1hz, meaning if it didn't average things out it skipped 7999/8000 data points in full spec) for your average wrist aimer, and for involving arm movement it goes to 7600-7800. that is of course likely to vary for different setups. It would be more informational to update this tool to at least like 5-10hz or something.

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Razer_TheFiend
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Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by Razer_TheFiend » 04 Feb 2021, 07:52

lyrill wrote:
04 Feb 2021, 01:25
Razer_TheFiend wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 23:13
hkngo007 wrote:
03 Feb 2021, 19:09
Hello,

I just received my viper 8khz.

It's configured at 8Khz but on testing sites such as:

https://mouseinsider.com/mouse-polling-rate-checker/
I get max 5.6Khz and average 5Khz (doing circles).

https://zowie.benq.com/zh-tw/support/mo ... ecker.html
I get average 5Khz (doing circles).

Is this expected or normal??? Not sure how to check what it is running at in games? Any suggestions?
Browser based tools aren't fast enough to accurately capture mouse reports that fast. You'll need to use a local application.
We made our internal polling rate test tool available to the public here : https://rzr.to/pollingrate

Or you can also try mousetester, if you prefer a third-party tool : https://github.com/microe1/MouseTester
i will reference on that because previously i already mentioned/observed that conventional 1khz mice easily caps to 1khz in the dynamic scaling nature at relatively moderate speed, however, the same speed now yields at least 2k-4k. maybe even 5k. that alone means up to 5x more agility on the average motion, and of course it can go even higher. it doesn't really go above 7500hz (that is, per your own in house tool which ironically doesn't even refresh fast, it's 1hz, meaning if it didn't average things out it skipped 7999/8000 data points in full spec) for your average wrist aimer, and for involving arm movement it goes to 7600-7800. that is of course likely to vary for different setups. It would be more informational to update this tool to at least like 5-10hz or something.
Our tool is actually doing it correct and by the book - showing the number of reports in the past 1 second - which is exactly how mouse "Hz" is defined (reports per second).

That's a much more reliable and precise approach than counting reports in 1/10th of a second and multiplying by 10, like other test software might do.

Inco^
Posts: 34
Joined: 20 Apr 2020, 07:47
Location: France

Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by Inco^ » 04 Feb 2021, 09:32

@Razer_TheFiend,

the link https://rzr.to/pollingrate does not seem to work.

Besides, I've got one question:
In the Razer manual, it is written:
"Connect your Razer device to the USB port of your computer. To optimize the polling rate of your Razer Viper 8KHz, it is highly recommended that you connect the device directly to a USB 2 or USB 3 port of your computer. Connecting the device to a USB hub, switch or extender may affect its performance."
=> is it still optimal to connect the mouse to a USB port that is located on the monitor? (rather than on the PC case) Because my PC is too far away for the length of the mouse cable.
My monitor model is PG259QN, in case that matters (I know latency analyzers of PG259QNR and others require connecting the mouse to the monitor).
Asus ROG Swift PG259QN - BenQ Zowie XL2546K - Lenovo Legion Y27gq-25 - AOC Agon AG251FZ - LaCie Electron 22 Blue IV

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