I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

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howiec
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Joined: 17 Jun 2014, 15:36

Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by howiec » 26 Feb 2021, 00:34

lyrill wrote:
26 Feb 2021, 00:04
about HPET disabling, I guess the question people want to ask is : is it gonna break my computer if I try it (briefly or extended period) ? and HOW do I know that it actually helps? just by looking at more frames? DO i need to tinker with it if I don't have issues/stutters?

That is without going back to re-read all previously mentioned about HPET. If the answer was already provided do remind me my ignorance because I preach to people to read this thread all the time yet I myself still haven't completely gone through it all again to recollect everything
I don't want to inadvertently hijack this thread with HPET as Chief has already stated that it deserves its own. Nevertheless, I've found that it is absolutely relevant to a stutter-free 8kHz mouse experience, and so I mentioned my results.

There are many ways to quantitatively prove the overall performance differences, and many test/benchmark results (FPS / latency) are available on the internet.

Some old, quick Far Cry 5 benchmarks on a 8700k + 1080 Ti:

useplatformclock yes (using HPET):
Image

useplatformclock deleted (not using HPET):
Image

forcedreg
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Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by forcedreg » 26 Feb 2021, 04:40

howiec wrote:
26 Feb 2021, 00:34
There are many ways to quantitatively prove the overall performance differences, and many test/benchmark results (FPS / latency) are available on the internet.
I'm gonna play devil's advocate and say FPS tests are very much inconclusive when it comes to timers just based on this comment by an AMD rep. That being said, I'm also running my PC with hpet off but I've got no conclusive evidence that it's actually better. Just that it feels better with the 4k Hz that I'm using atm.

howiec
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Joined: 17 Jun 2014, 15:36

Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by howiec » 26 Feb 2021, 11:34

forcedreg wrote:
26 Feb 2021, 04:40
howiec wrote:
26 Feb 2021, 00:34
There are many ways to quantitatively prove the overall performance differences, and many test/benchmark results (FPS / latency) are available on the internet.
I'm gonna play devil's advocate and say FPS tests are very much inconclusive when it comes to timers just based on this comment by an AMD rep. That being said, I'm also running my PC with hpet off but I've got no conclusive evidence that it's actually better. Just that it feels better with the 4k Hz that I'm using atm.
Well, I consider major stuttering, major increased ISR/DPC latencies, significantly lower frame rates, and a laggy / less responsive OS, etc. both quantitative and qualitative. It was so obvious back when I tested this on my 8700k + 1080 Ti. Testing was done with Windows builds v1703 or v1709 or later.
Alas, I offer data that supports this on at least said Intel CPUs/systems. Others have also found similar results (there are numerous examples out there).

I already know for a fact that useplatformclock=true alone (well, with HPET enabled in BIOS of course) results in Apex Legends stuttering with 8kHz on my system so what further evidence do you need?
You can test all of this yourself and I would generally expect similar performance differences on AMD systems because HPET and TSC are what they are...

Of course, some applications may perform fine with, and may even require, HPET but there are certainly many that do not, and I like a snappy OS that's reflected by lower latencies.

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lyrill
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Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by lyrill » 27 Feb 2021, 04:07

well ok another way to phrase this : does disabling hpet damage/hurt anything? if not then it doesn't matter if it makes duplicate/fake fps, as long as it doesn't actually lower it. If that is cleared, then people can be confident to try it and see for themselves if stuttering is lowered or they actually feel the fps being higher (because a higher fps brings more smoothness to begin with....in general)

howiec
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Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by howiec » 27 Feb 2021, 06:06

lyrill wrote:
27 Feb 2021, 04:07
well ok another way to phrase this : does disabling hpet damage/hurt anything? if not then it doesn't matter if it makes duplicate/fake fps, as long as it doesn't actually lower it. If that is cleared, then people can be confident to try it and see for themselves if stuttering is lowered or they actually feel the fps being higher (because a higher fps brings more smoothness to begin with....in general)
bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock w/ HPET enabled in the BIOS is very unlikely to "damage" anything. This is also typically the default state.

Some people blindly set useplatformclock=true + HPET without realizing that it may degrade system or some specific apps' performance and can increase latencies.

hkngo007
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Joined: 28 Nov 2017, 01:40

Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by hkngo007 » 27 Feb 2021, 10:34

I got a USB Pcie adapter for the mouse and it works perfect so far.
no frame drops or stutters at 8Khz on games that previously did have problems.

Worth the $35 XD. Definitely consider it if u are using this mouse and have stutters etc.

Donixo
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Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by Donixo » 27 Feb 2021, 19:52

i have issues with the mouse..
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lyrill
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Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by lyrill » 27 Feb 2021, 23:20

Donixo wrote:
27 Feb 2021, 19:52
i have issues with the mouse..
don't use 400 dpi it's buggy. regardless of what your pc spec is.

using 400 is like running a porsche on the sidewalk. even with sensors worse than 3399.

in fact let's just say most sensors past 336X likely function the best exactly at around max no smoothing dial, that being 2k-3k dpi and upwards to near 4k-5k.
Last edited by lyrill on 27 Feb 2021, 23:34, edited 3 times in total.

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lyrill
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Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by lyrill » 27 Feb 2021, 23:24

reporting that dota 2 runs 200-4xx fps all low. sadly perfect world is doing shady steamcn stuff and people are hatetraining, and it seems shady anyways so i gotta play SEA servers with 50 instead of 5 ping. in any case, no problem with 8khz.

pubg tho somehow in ranked seems to lag and crash. it still automatically close synapse 3 at launch very stupid because alt freelook means i pretty much HAVE to disable alt tab in synapse for my huntsman mini, yet the frigging thing won't change to another profile where it's not locked to the gamer mode....so i can't go out to reopen synapse while inside, good thing is pubg doesn't automatically tab into fullscreen when launching...but still this is stupid...plz fix RAZER>.<

Although I don't get stable 300+ and dip below 200 sometimes in qc even with toning down scaling OR resolution, maxing 390hz does feel instantly smoother than locking down to 240hz, and locking fps will actually decrease instead of increase fps, contrary to all the snake oil bs on youtube. And the lag thing I have noticed only happens in lockbox super armour spawn camp, there's just a game issue because frigging sabre interactive.. there's one or two other map where super armour spawn stutters like shit when you strafe around or go back and forth but that's just not a Viper 8khz issue or does using Viper 8k deepen such issue than it was.

csgo as well in scoped I can get stable 399fps but in cqc easily goes to around 300. A lot of people bought rtx30 but I am happy to wait for the next gen, as for whether better monitor come out by then, no matter.

wt I can get anywhere from 200 to 600 fps in legacy gpu mode. and it's the only game I play rn that has reflex boost setting IN GAME. all the reflex monitors claim as Nvidia claimed that there's built in hardware that lowers latency, but since theFiend claims none of them supports usb hs even if they only have 3.0 ports (???) I guess it doesn't matter much to me. since none of them have oc 390hz even if they are supposedly "more premium" with bunch of added features beyond reflex analyzer, somehow an nvidia gsync hardware inside, 0.3ms gtg (with what /referring to what, I don't know) vs 0.5ms gtg (the seller tells me with vrb, I can't conclude if it does cause more strain but it certainly doesn't make things less fluid)

masneb
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Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by masneb » 28 Feb 2021, 03:13

howiec wrote:
25 Feb 2021, 23:42
masneb wrote:
25 Feb 2021, 21:11
howiec wrote:
25 Feb 2021, 12:36
masneb wrote:
24 Feb 2021, 23:29
snakeoil options like MSI mode
That is 100% not snake oil.
Yeah, that's open to interpretation to a lot of people, but we're all fleshy human meatbags attempting to test things without the tools to do so because they haven't been made yet.
MSI is real and is more efficient.
Unless you can provide some technical evidence on how it is not, please don't spread misinformation. There's plenty of supporting documentation including an Intel whitepaper about it...
masneb wrote:
25 Feb 2021, 21:11
Be very careful with HPET and other snakeoil fixes, you may end up in a worse position then you were before. HPET has been widely and very conflictingly discussed all over the place. You'll find these threads dating back close to a decade and they never reach consensus on them helping or not. So ANY time you hear someone mention HPET or platform clocks, be aware you may make your system worse by adjusting such settings and even among those with similar systems, they yield completely different, subjective results.
I've tested HPET vs TSC on several platforms including Q6600 + P35 chipset, and 9700k + Z370 chipset (both heavily overclocked). Using HPET as the main clock source has always resulted in significantly reduced overall system performance and/or increased stutter.

If you understand some basic computer / electrical engineering, you will understand why this is the case when you look at the HPET specification vs how TSC is used...
Feel free to source it and benchmarks showing this. Not a random thread with two screenshots of a rando off the cuff testing things.

I'm not saying MSI is not doing anything, I'm stating that it may or may not do something and not always what you want it to do. Snake oil can be good or bad, but often times not what you think you're getting. I wouldn't be trying things if I didn't think there were some merits to claims. There are other threads located around the internet (not empirical testing) showing off that MSI can increase latency, especially when associated with peripherals. I'm sure you knew this already and will be quick to point it out.

Also no systems should be using HPET by default. This is something you need to tweak manually and the whole reason it's been brought up in the past is because people found it improved their experiences. YMMV. I don't use HPET and found it increased stuttering, I'm not going to discount others results simply because they don't match my own and I haven't done extensive testing nor do I care to do such things. As I mentioned since 20h1 release of windows, everyone should be on a 10mhz timer no matter what. I'm pretty sure it's next to impossible to change as well.
howiec wrote:
26 Feb 2021, 11:34
I already know for a fact that useplatformclock=true alone (well, with HPET enabled in BIOS of course) results in Apex Legends stuttering with 8kHz on my system so what further evidence do you need?
I'm not supporting HPET, don't form a strawman. Slow down champ. You should separate 8khz testing from HPET testing. If you want to make an experiment with controls, you don't include a variable from another.

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