I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

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Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 02 Mar 2021, 02:05

lyrill wrote:
02 Mar 2021, 02:02
nice, yeah if RAZER won't release one I'm certainly waiting for that from you if anyone is to make it
Even if I release a TestUFO mouse tester, I will be (temporarily) recommending against testing all 8KHz mouse (any vendor) until the browser bugs are fixed.

To Other Software Developers In This Thread
Any of you open source software developers (with a fast Internet connection) need to do a "git clone https://github.com/chromium/chromium.git", make the source code change, and then commit the change. Then the source code fix becomes part of Chrome/Edge in a few months from now. I'd fix the browsers myself, but I'm a bit tied up at the moment in too many other projects.
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lyrill
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Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by lyrill » 02 Mar 2021, 02:19

I'm actually amazed how much the jitter issue is largely alleviated by brute 20kdpi coupling with a lower sens. it's not completely gone obviously, but previously it's unthinkable to confidently venture into 8k or even 5k+ dpi realm. Of course all the low latency benefits help with accuracy too.


This is again done on 2/11 os and isn't sensitive enough to pick up smallest movement(even in desktop, so no it's not strictly an Areson bug or whatever) but slower feeling edpi in csgo does pick up all controls. Basically I don't trust this program to tell the whole picture..

There should definitely be an accurate hz read coupled with the plot drawing or Mouse Paint.exe to have context of perf vs hz vs speed.

As you can notice that you can't really discern if at 2k it's simply because the cross stitch marking from "track" is too thick and de-resolutioned the result or that there's actually still dotting. There should definitely be an adjustable thickness of the marking.
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lyrill
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Joined: 06 Oct 2020, 10:37

Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by lyrill » 02 Mar 2021, 07:10

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
02 Mar 2021, 02:05
lyrill wrote:
02 Mar 2021, 02:02
nice, yeah if RAZER won't release one I'm certainly waiting for that from you if anyone is to make it
Even if I release a TestUFO mouse tester, I will be (temporarily) recommending against testing all 8KHz mouse (any vendor) until the browser bugs are fixed.

To Other Software Developers In This Thread
Any of you open source software developers (with a fast Internet connection) need to do a "git clone https://github.com/chromium/chromium.git", make the source code change, and then commit the change. Then the source code fix becomes part of Chrome/Edge in a few months from now. I'd fix the browsers myself, but I'm a bit tied up at the moment in too many other projects.

oh and btw is there a link to the 3080+8k article cus I can't find it in Area and title post said it was due last Nov.

NDUS
Posts: 38
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Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by NDUS » 02 Mar 2021, 21:04

Just want to add something I've found recently re: best USB port practices for USB Hi-speed devices.

It seems that in most cases, USB is trafficked through the chipset, which shares traffic with various other things like audio devices, and especially storage devices (SATA, or NVME in a chipset m.2.) A single modern NVME drive can easily fill the bandwidth limit of the chipset, which ranges from 2-4gb/s. Hard to say what happens to your polling when that happens.

There are however some platforms which accept USB traffic directly to the CPU on some USB ports. Theoretically, these should produce the cleanest mouse polling because it won't be sharing traffic with audio and storage devices. Unfortunately it's not documented very well which ports go to the chipset and which go directly to the CPU, or if indeed any go to the CPU on a specific platform.

The PCIE x4 USB expansions cards will all go to the chipset, I think.

Apparently on Ryzen, the 'first 4 usb ports from top to bottom' often go directly to the CPU. I haven't found any documents about "CPU USB" ports on Intel chips.
Last edited by NDUS on 03 Mar 2021, 00:35, edited 1 time in total.

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lyrill
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Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by lyrill » 02 Mar 2021, 22:46

NDUS wrote:
02 Mar 2021, 21:04
Just want to add something I've found recently re: best USB port practices for USB Hi-speed devices.

It seems that in most cases, USB is trafficked through the chipset, which shares traffic with various other things like audio devices, and especially storage devices (SATA, or NVME in a chipset m.2)

There are however some platforms which accept USB traffic directly to the CPU on some USB ports. Theoretically, these should produce the cleanest mouse polling because it won't be sharing traffic with audio and storage devices. Unfortunately it's not documented very well which ports go to the chipset and which go directly to the CPU, or if indeed any go to the CPU on a specific platform.

The PCIE x4 USB expansions cards will all go to the chipset, I think.

Apparently on Ryzen, the 'first 4 usb ports from top to bottom' often go directly to the CPU. I haven't found any documents about "CPU USB" ports on Intel chips.
..........most motherboards since eons ago had ps2 on the very top for obvious reasons (computers were shoved on the side of your leg in regular work/study standard issue composite desks.....cord length and whathaveyou)......so now even if half your average motherboards skips the ps2 port, it still likely designate the mouse/keyboard ports on the very top...so yeah 2 or 4 of them, you can even see they are much larger chipset groupo from inside than what's below......and then about similar size as the ones involving ethernet/optical audio....
Last edited by lyrill on 04 Mar 2021, 00:11, edited 1 time in total.

hkngo007
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Joined: 28 Nov 2017, 01:40

Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by hkngo007 » 03 Mar 2021, 01:43

hkngo007 wrote:
27 Feb 2021, 10:34
I got a USB Pcie adapter for the mouse and it works perfect so far.
no frame drops or stutters at 8Khz on games that previously did have problems.

Worth the $35 XD. Definitely consider it if u are using this mouse and have stutters etc.
UPDATE
This was a lie. The PCIE expansion did NOT work. The reason i believed it worked was becuase in razer software i was infact at 8000hz etc.
But upon replugging my mouse (just something i wanted to do) the stuttering went spastic like it was previously.

So i restarted reinstalled the drivers for PCIE usb expansion card and restarted. 8Khz in razer software and stuttering gone. It didnt feel right, so i checked zowie rate checker on browser ==> my hertz was 1000hz regardless of the Razer software setting (8000hz, 4000hz) it still was at 1000hz. However lowering it UNDER 1000hz registered on the mouse rate checker.

So i replugged the mouse again, and boom, it went over 1000hz in the website rate checker at 8Khz and the stuttering revealed its ugly head in the games i once had problems in again.

For me - PCIE expansion card did not work, and is giving false assurance that it is (even tho razer software is showing 8khz polling). Will test some more to see if this persist oin each reboot (defaulting to 1000hz irrespective of razer software3 showing 8khz or 4khz etc).

People dont buy PCIE USB card so readily, there may be issues.

masneb
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Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by masneb » 03 Mar 2021, 03:55

Don't use rate checker websites. It's been stated multiple times in here they're faulty. I swear half of the posts in this thread is just hearsay on top of posturing misquoting/misremembering/misinterpreting a article read along time ago in a galaxy far far away. Snakeoil and bleeding edge stuff usually turns out this way, but at least take a little bit of time to think things out before making a reply.

Hope this stuff doesn't drive away thefiend and we can get a dev line still going on here to fix the issues that exist and iron them out. 8khz definitely causes stuttering in some games and 8khz performance seems sporadic depending on what you plug it into. Conversely, if you plug it into a hub that can't handle 8khz, a game may appear to be fluid as it's not getting the full polling rate and thus it doesn't cause stuttering.

hkngo007
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Joined: 28 Nov 2017, 01:40

Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by hkngo007 » 03 Mar 2021, 05:07

masneb wrote:
03 Mar 2021, 03:55
Don't use rate checker websites. It's been stated multiple times in here they're faulty. I swear half of the posts in this thread is just hearsay on top of posturing misquoting/misremembering/misinterpreting a article read along time ago in a galaxy far far away. Snakeoil and bleeding edge stuff usually turns out this way, but at least take a little bit of time to think things out before making a reply.

Hope this stuff doesn't drive away thefiend and we can get a dev line still going on here to fix the issues that exist and iron them out. 8khz definitely causes stuttering in some games and 8khz performance seems sporadic depending on what you plug it into. Conversely, if you plug it into a hub that can't handle 8khz, a game may appear to be fluid as it's not getting the full polling rate and thus it doesn't cause stuttering.
lol ur statements about the website rate checkers is irrelevant to the findings that i can reproduce. not sure what ure going on about.

If u read what i've stated, its got nothing to do with the accuracy of website rate checker.

Good on you.

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lyrill
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Joined: 06 Oct 2020, 10:37

Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by lyrill » 03 Mar 2021, 12:09

hkngo007 wrote:
03 Mar 2021, 01:43
hkngo007 wrote:
27 Feb 2021, 10:34
I got a USB Pcie adapter for the mouse and it works perfect so far.
no frame drops or stutters at 8Khz on games that previously did have problems.

Worth the $35 XD. Definitely consider it if u are using this mouse and have stutters etc.
UPDATE
This was a lie. The PCIE expansion did NOT work. The reason i believed it worked was becuase in razer software i was infact at 8000hz etc.
But upon replugging my mouse (just something i wanted to do) the stuttering went spastic like it was previously.

So i restarted reinstalled the drivers for PCIE usb expansion card and restarted. 8Khz in razer software and stuttering gone. It didnt feel right, so i checked zowie rate checker on browser ==> my hertz was 1000hz regardless of the Razer software setting (8000hz, 4000hz) it still was at 1000hz. However lowering it UNDER 1000hz registered on the mouse rate checker.

So i replugged the mouse again, and boom, it went over 1000hz in the website rate checker at 8Khz and the stuttering revealed its ugly head in the games i once had problems in again.

For me - PCIE expansion card did not work, and is giving false assurance that it is (even tho razer software is showing 8khz polling). Will test some more to see if this persist oin each reboot (defaulting to 1000hz irrespective of razer software3 showing 8khz or 4khz etc).

People dont buy PCIE USB card so readily, there may be issues.
....software setting doesn't check if you actually activated it successfully...not even hardware switches guarantee to work if there is no check/failsafe mechanism..

User avatar
lyrill
Posts: 180
Joined: 06 Oct 2020, 10:37

Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by lyrill » 03 Mar 2021, 12:18

masneb wrote:
03 Mar 2021, 03:55
Don't use rate checker websites. It's been stated multiple times in here they're faulty. I swear half of the posts in this thread is just hearsay on top of posturing misquoting/misremembering/misinterpreting a article read along time ago in a galaxy far far away. Snakeoil and bleeding edge stuff usually turns out this way, but at least take a little bit of time to think things out before making a reply.

Hope this stuff doesn't drive away thefiend and we can get a dev line still going on here to fix the issues that exist and iron them out. 8khz definitely causes stuttering in some games and 8khz performance seems sporadic depending on what you plug it into. Conversely, if you plug it into a hub that can't handle 8khz, a game may appear to be fluid as it's not getting the full polling rate and thus it doesn't cause stuttering.
he's gonna do what he's gonna do as always here or elsewhere but I'm pretty sure I already said this before in this very thread that for me it's nice he even came back after the shenanigans Right started with me. Also it's been repeated many times in this thread and other reviews around the internet since the very start that "razer is working with xx devs" and that ecosystem bug fixes are not up to Razer alone, even if it's been near half a year already.

the main problem with this mouse is

1: lod lack of improvement which bleeds harder cus you are coupling buick grade lod with a bmw grade mcu etc. (actually pretty disgusting for sniping too such as in ow. severity depends on pad obv but overall I am not gonna repeat why it is NOT LOW ENOUGH AT ALL a million times)
2: hz scattering above 2k, not catching up with real time ips increase. This would be like buying a stock bmw m3 without any upgrade kit and going to a legit race. it's an m3, but you might as well mod a honda. (i'm not talking about other mouse )
3: literally unchanged shape from a mid 2019 release. new Koenigsegg engine, thrown in yesterday model. "aero concern"=ergo concerns. I am not next level.

minor gripes
1.probs most if not all current ptfe skate designs don't fit well with top Razer pad Acari. Testing still ongoing, there isn't much coarse options for less sticky feeling on such kind of buttery smooth surface. Also I'm not a fan of swapping skates just for science nor does this mouse need taken apart.
2. M2 has a minor second stage clicking by the 10% end of travel. not intrusive to operation but
3. right side shell towards the back is a tad loose when flipping up to clean the skate. that part isn't gripped when using (don't claw or fp with ANY legit mouse. just hybrid 60%-70% palm, take it from world's best sf/widow/sks/sturmvogel/tensei/etc)
4. can you not install the middle ring by default? ( like, endgame gear doesn't install the bigger skate by default..cus then you'd be left with more residue to clean, and all very exposed..) it actually picks up more dust veering into the sensor lens than it helps with anything at all on a hard pad. (choosing a softer pad for this is like drive testing next gen Bugatti roadcar on Dirt:Rally...)

everything else is pretty much creme la crop in the entire industry.

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