I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

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lyrill
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Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by lyrill » 16 Apr 2021, 23:25

oh the logi wireless. that's a toy

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Kamen Rider Blade
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Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by Kamen Rider Blade » 17 Apr 2021, 01:47

Falkentyne wrote:
16 Apr 2021, 18:40
lyrill wrote:
16 Apr 2021, 00:39
Falkentyne wrote:
15 Apr 2021, 20:24
I think the 240hz/360hz problem is amplified on 1000hz mice because 1000hz mice already look terrible at 120hz while they look perfect at 125hz. And since 240hz and 360hz are even multiples of 120, well, there you go.

Did anyone test a 1000hz mouse at 250hz?
which problem u referring to? never felt that 120hz was terrible on any of my 1khz since 2012.
Just tested it last night again.
This is on BOTH my XL2720Z and XL2746S.

Mouse: Logitech G903, 1000hz.

100hz: glass smooth turning
120hz: not glass smooth: almost like there is some sort of strange frame sync issue of some sort (not tearing, almost like a strange hitching as if something were slightly out of phase)
125hz: glass smooth
144hz: glass smooth

Chief? :(
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The Refresh rate #'s that you complain about are specifically:
120 Hz, 240 Hz, 360 Hz

Now look carefully at my chart, notice how those specific refresh rates have infinite running digits at the end.
120 Hz = 8.3333… ms between frames
240 Hz = 4.1666… ms between frames
360 Hz = 2.7777… ms between frames

My theory is that those weird infinite digits must have some weird math properties in between frame refresh #'s since you can't get a perfect clock count each time due to the running infinite trail of digits.

You state that setting your refresh rate to 100 Hz, 125 Hz, & 144 Hz doesn't seem to give you problems?

I bet if you limit your refresh rates to Whole Number's or Solid Fraction Refresh Rates, you're bound to have a smoother experience in general.

Picking a refresh rate that has a running infinite digits after the decimal is more likely to give you issues vs Whole # or Solid Fraction refresh rates.

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Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by Brainlet » 17 Apr 2021, 05:41

Falkentyne wrote:
16 Apr 2021, 18:40
Just tested it last night again.
This is on BOTH my XL2720Z and XL2746S.

Mouse: Logitech G903, 1000hz.

100hz: glass smooth turning
120hz: not glass smooth: almost like there is some sort of strange frame sync issue of some sort (not tearing, almost like a strange hitching as if something were slightly out of phase)
125hz: glass smooth
144hz: glass smooth

Chief? :(
There are a lot of varying delays in the pipeline which make "syncing" mouse polling to monitor refresh rate impossible. It's probably related to the monitor's timings not being optimized for certain refresh rates. Going by your theory 144hz shouldn't be smooth either.
Kamen Rider Blade wrote:
17 Apr 2021, 01:47
My theory is that those weird infinite digits must have some weird math properties in between frame refresh #'s since you can't get a perfect clock count each time due to the running infinite trail of digits.

You state that setting your refresh rate to 100 Hz, 125 Hz, & 144 Hz doesn't seem to give you problems?

I bet if you limit your refresh rates to Whole Number's or Solid Fraction Refresh Rates, you're bound to have a smoother experience in general.

Picking a refresh rate that has a running infinite digits after the decimal is more likely to give you issues vs Whole # or Solid Fraction refresh rates.
They're just units made up by humans to quantify time. An oscillator doesn't care about how humans interpret its clock intervals. For example, something oscillating 3 times per minute could be written as every 0.3333... minutes or every 20 seconds. Telling it "you are now ticking every 1/3 minutes instead of every 20 seconds" won't suddenly change how it behaves.
Starting point for beginners: PC Optimization Hub

Falkentyne
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Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by Falkentyne » 17 Apr 2021, 10:33

lyrill wrote:
16 Apr 2021, 23:25
oh the logi wireless. that's a toy
I don't use it wirelessly. Wired only.

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Kamen Rider Blade
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Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by Kamen Rider Blade » 18 Apr 2021, 01:30

Brainlet wrote:
17 Apr 2021, 05:41
They're just units made up by humans to quantify time. An oscillator doesn't care about how humans interpret its clock intervals. For example, something oscillating 3 times per minute could be written as every 0.3333... minutes or every 20 seconds. Telling it "you are now ticking every 1/3 minutes instead of every 20 seconds" won't suddenly change how it behaves.
The issue isn't with the perception of time or the definition of it.

It has to do with the integer math and how certain #'s are just easier for the computers to do a precise interrupt from the clock due to the way the #'s increment and what #'s they would need to be looking for.

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lyrill
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Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by lyrill » 18 Apr 2021, 09:13

so what WOULD they need to be looking for exactly? cus my 390hz doesn't read 390hz either on the blurbuster test.

I do have some concern with vrb eye strain. it was initially felt. Then I got used to it. But then I think that when human beings are under some certain strain, it's easier to perceive what causes strain. of course the strain could come from that which give it, or it doesn't, but at least what currently adds to it, is definitive. So this goes for vrb and other random shit like extreme oc on the voltage(is that what every brand does?) that makes scrolling text extremely draggy and well, bad to look at. fatiguing. And it could also indicate cause of other problems like if any was caused by a lack of integer or whole fraction of mouse rate or whatever (although do remember that we don't have fixed Hz yet, and that higher hz the point WAS to get consistent tracking, and you don't get more consistent than absolutely zero pixelation in tracking, at least for none sub pixel, so basically ye, it shouldn't be fixed hz, remember my graph. those who use 1khz and think that's consistent because you cap it out so easily with lower edpi/more aggressive playstyle/genre demand, is really idiotic. ) . I mean if your eyes feel it nobody else can tell you it don't.

sk1p
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Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by sk1p » 19 Apr 2021, 07:44

I have been using Razer Viper 8kHz for two weeks and confused for this experience .. as I have the first Viper for one year and compare them during two weeks and what I found:

3390 from first Viper feels more responsive for me than focus+ if I don't have installed Razer synapse(both mouses with 400dpi and 1000hz), If I install synapse my previous Viper started to had slight input lag, but Viper 8K becomes fine, still didn't find explanation to this issue) and I still like my game experience in CS GO with the first Viper and uninstalled synapse more, still can not decide which mouse to choose.

I found that Focus+ slightly consistent than 5g sensor of previous Viper, I agree with this from Razer that 5g has 99.4 precision, but focus+ 99.6%.

with 8000hz I feel very fast input, more faster then with 1000hz, but I have sometimes in CS GO fps drops and bullets like not counted, sometimes I have insane frags, but overall with 8000hz my game experience worse then with 1000hz, I have i5 8600k, gtx 1060, Asus VG279QM 240hz IPS.

Do somebody has some issues in CS GO with 8000hz and more powerfull PC's ?

ChillyRide1712
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Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by ChillyRide1712 » 19 Apr 2021, 19:20

sk1p wrote:
19 Apr 2021, 07:44
I have been using Razer Viper 8kHz for two weeks and confused for this experience .. as I have the first Viper for one year and compare them during two weeks and what I found:

3390 from first Viper feels more responsive for me than focus+ if I don't have installed Razer synapse(both mouses with 400dpi and 1000hz), If I install synapse my previous Viper started to had slight input lag, but Viper 8K becomes fine, still didn't find explanation to this issue) and I still like my game experience in CS GO with the first Viper and uninstalled synapse more, still can not decide which mouse to choose.

I found that Focus+ slightly consistent than 5g sensor of previous Viper, I agree with this from Razer that 5g has 99.4 precision, but focus+ 99.6%.

with 8000hz I feel very fast input, more faster then with 1000hz, but I have sometimes in CS GO fps drops and bullets like not counted, sometimes I have insane frags, but overall with 8000hz my game experience worse then with 1000hz, I have i5 8600k, gtx 1060, Asus VG279QM 240hz IPS.

Do somebody has some issues in CS GO with 8000hz and more powerfull PC's ?
Basically own mouse for 2 month. Found some interesting info. My rig is 5900X 4.85CCX1 4.8CCX2 caped, no pbo, 5700xt, 64GB Ram 3733 cl14. Viper 8k, 8k polling rate, 20k dpi, 0.15-0.20 sensivity in games, Samsung g7 240hz wqhd. Synapse installed but app and services not running.

Overwatch with high precision on play ok. Anything else sttuter in Valorant, CS:GO, Warzone, Apex, WOW.
Direct connect to CPU usb lanes, enything else no chipset usb. On AMD gpu side, driver services cause sttuters and all rgb and aio software running causes sttuter too. AMD External Event Utility service, ASUS Armory crate, NZXT CAM - closing this fixes all sttuters in games above. However, Viper 8k hit CPU very hard in every game where cpu is key to maxing fps. Valorant, CS:GO show fps drops when fast moving mouse, but if u cap ur fps to lowest ur saw its fine and playable. No problems with fps drops in Overwatch where my 5700xt on 90+% usage at 400 fps. Basically CPU struggle to register fast movements or it is supposed to work like that, dont know, but I fixed sttuters and improve fps by closing services and apps in background. Caped to lowest I saw in games. Still, playing on high dpi is smth new to me. Feels odd and not consistant.
Probably for NVIDIA users and rgb lovers it works too, close/disable bloatware and test.

ChillyRide1712
Posts: 6
Joined: 19 Apr 2021, 18:59

Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by ChillyRide1712 » 19 Apr 2021, 19:23

sk1p wrote:
19 Apr 2021, 07:44
I have been using Razer Viper 8kHz for two weeks and confused for this experience .. as I have the first Viper for one year and compare them during two weeks and what I found:

3390 from first Viper feels more responsive for me than focus+ if I don't have installed Razer synapse(both mouses with 400dpi and 1000hz), If I install synapse my previous Viper started to had slight input lag, but Viper 8K becomes fine, still didn't find explanation to this issue) and I still like my game experience in CS GO with the first Viper and uninstalled synapse more, still can not decide which mouse to choose.

I found that Focus+ slightly consistent than 5g sensor of previous Viper, I agree with this from Razer that 5g has 99.4 precision, but focus+ 99.6%.

with 8000hz I feel very fast input, more faster then with 1000hz, but I have sometimes in CS GO fps drops and bullets like not counted, sometimes I have insane frags, but overall with 8000hz my game experience worse then with 1000hz, I have i5 8600k, gtx 1060, Asus VG279QM 240hz IPS.

Do somebody has some issues in CS GO with 8000hz and more powerfull PC's ?
Basically own mouse for 2 month. Found some interesting info. My rig is 5900X 4.85CCX1 4.8CCX2 caped, no pbo, 5700xt, 64GB Ram 3733 cl14. Viper 8k, 8k polling rate, 20k dpi, 0.15-0.20 sensivity in games, Samsung g7 240hz wqhd. Synapse installed but app and services not running.

Overwatch with high precision on play ok. Anything else sttuter in Valorant, CS:GO, Warzone, Apex, WOW.
Direct connect to CPU usb lanes, enything else no chipset usb. On AMD gpu side, driver services cause sttuters and all rgb and aio software running causes sttuter too. AMD External Event Utility service, ASUS Armory crate, NZXT CAM - closing this fixes all sttuters in games above. However, Viper 8k hit CPU very hard in every game where cpu is key to maxing fps. Valorant, CS:GO show fps drops when fast moving mouse, but if u cap ur fps to lowest ur saw its fine and playable. No problems with fps drops in Overwatch where my 5700xt on 90+% usage at 400 fps. Basically CPU struggle to register fast movements or it is supposed to work like that, dont know, but I fixed sttuters and improve fps by closing services and apps in background. Caped to lowest I saw in games. Still, playing on high dpi is smth new to me. Feels odd and not consistant.
Probably for NVIDIA users and rgb lovers it works too, close/disable bloatware and test.

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Re: I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 19 Apr 2021, 22:22

ChillyRide1712 wrote:
19 Apr 2021, 19:23
Still, playing on high dpi is smth new to me. Feels odd and not consistant.
This will vary from game to game. There are high DPI quirks in many engines (engine fault, not mouse fault). So high DPI will likely feel different in CS:GO than in Valorant.

I think CS:GO has an inconsistency problem at ultra high DPIs (e.g. even with perfect 3200dpi-6400dpi) but Valorant appears to work beautifully with high DPIs, for example. As a consistency test, try using lower DPI in CS:GO and higher DPI in Valorant, making sure you rebalance sensitivity-vs-DPI to make mouseturns the same speed in CS:GO and Valorant (despite having higher DPI only in Valorant). You may have to use game-specific DPI-optimization.
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