I have the new Razer 8000 Hz prototype gaming mouse on my desk.

[Kamen Rider Blade]

HPET is a complicated topic

While the minimum requirement for HPET is 10 MHz.

Intel has set their HPET timer @ 24.00 MHz
AMD has set their HPET timer @ 14.32 MHz

AMD and Intel have different guidance on HPET

[Ingannamorte]

Hi guys.
I bought a viper 8000, should I return it?
The only game that works is overwatch. But I don't want to play only overwatch, I want to play other games. Yes, 8000Hz looks great, but it just doesn't work. I have a feeling that I was simply deceived. It will be years before any developer decides to add support for such a mouse to their game.

[DaveN]

Hi guys.
I bought a viper 8000, should I return it?
The only game that works is overwatch. But I don't want to play only overwatch, I want to play other games. Yes, 8000Hz looks great, but it just doesn't work. I have a feeling that I was simply deceived. It will be years before any developer decides to add support for such a mouse to their game.

I don't think this will take years, pretty sure. I'm keeping mine despite not being able to use it, hoping for some changes to arrive soon, hopefully its not a hardware combination, since I don't plan on upgrading anything right now.

[lyrill]

Hi guys.
I bought a viper 8000, should I return it?
The only game that works is overwatch. But I don't want to play only overwatch, I want to play other games. Yes, 8000Hz looks great, but it just doesn't work. I have a feeling that I was simply deceived. It will be years before any developer decides to add support for such a mouse to their game.

it IS a game architecture thing. on the one hand this is 2021 tech, on the other hand games from 2012 actually runs past 300 fps stable on the average last year sweetspot+ gear in all low...and i do mean dota 2 and csgo. not even overwatch, unless u only play dm and dm comp whenever that arrives like, once a year for 2 weeks (smh). (edit: i actually just tested and it seems like on some smaller maps it floats lowest 310-320 ish, result not conclusive, but with dota 2 and csgo they are pretty much not so different, and I don't know any other impactful titles worth mentioning tbo, pubg as I said demands 120% scaling and that means 200fps ish, and even if it supposedly has 60hz servers now...there's just not a lot of fast swiping in that game...nor should it be that kind of game...but the speed where 2k hz is reached is still relatively slow, and 8khz speed isn't THAT high either.. so yeah depending on your edpi in various zoom settings..you DO still swipe fast enough to go above 2khz, even in dad games.. read below to understand the relevance.. wt while easily getting the most potential fps for an 2015/onward game if it's air vs air only modes up on higher altitudes, never was gonna be esport ready lul...and I don't blame Gaijin alone , because even if they are the best devs ever the dogfight/boom zoom tactics are still gonna be a bit too much for the youngsters these days...and because they are not the best devs their tank modes are pure trash...wasted potential everywhere .....oh and r6s of course is a dead afterthought..)

games simply use more complex architecture that hogs the hardware so much that the mouse doesn't get enough love (this includes simple things like having more complex model skeletons/ragdoll/sfx particles/mechanics logic even in all low ofc). I say this not because having 300+ fps stable validify having a 300hz+ monitor and then demanding beyond 1k hz. Because if you bothered to read this thread you know that 8khz is in and of itself superior for its own reasons. I'm just going off a hunch and you'd want enough hardware headroom to be confident that something that peaks your monitor compliments for more or less 8x, is gonna also be in a comfortable spot, doing god's work.

ALSO VERY IMPORTANT PLZ READ RAZER: I was gonna comment on this and I may have already acclude to this prior (you'd have heard this earlier if you sent me a test copy around same time as Chief, theFiend, but now is not too late since it's not on a new shape anyways), but your algo for scaling "hz" doesn't really keep the same density through out, or rather I never expected it to keep through and through and it was so unsurprising I completely forgotten to analyze it even just a bit. To be more exact, at around 2-3khz dotting starts to appear. That means your hz ratio isn't scaling up fast enough to keep up with the speed increase. It's like there's a "hz" acceleration with accordance to speed, yet this was supposed to eliminate the dotting that would clearly go rampant if during moderate to fast swiping the hz is still like 20 hz as it were in low speed. This might seem like a reasonable limit/tradeoff to some, but it really isn't, because THIS MEANS that the 8khz is effectively useless and fake in terms of keeping it tight, except at around 2k, where the hz isn't too bloated and you cannot see much dotting, meaning there is absolutely NO pixel skipping due to an inferior overall "resolution". Below 2k it's just TOO dense it's completely unnecessary (which again justify a "dynamic hz" but that's not the problem here because...) above 2k it goes the other way...and very obvious very fast.. although not as bad as 1khz.. There's something clearly very crooked with the graph, even if you consider the fact that games like pubg require high precision sub pixel aiming, and that fast swiping games are generally much more broad stroke while flicking as fast as they do

Whatever areson can test out, the result of maxed 8khz swiping is still commendable and respectable, but unless there's actually problem with areson showing actual plot of 8khz swiping/you wanna provide your own tool for this/there is a better tool to test this, I simply can't see how this can be considered true 8khz money for money. we are actually on the brink of a new realm of "fake dpi war" and you heard it here first folks, I am going to change this industry right here right now, marketing has failed to speak truth yet again. Because pixel skipping is equivalent to a part of the effect of low hz and that is then equivalent to what smoothing mainly does to the aim pattern...

This means that it doesn't matter how high the hz number is, it would still scale too slow even if the max is 24k hz, IF a similar algo is applied as such, and that 24k isn't enough raw horsepower to completely overwhelm the flick speed( edpi choice doesn't affect this much/I don't want to over-complicate an already extended post)


Of course this means that 1khz is basically obsolete and you'd be crazy to still use it for serious competition, because they basically use similar algo, and you are simply using a broken car that's 8x cheaper.

[hkngo007]

Hi guys.
I bought a viper 8000, should I return it?
The only game that works is overwatch. But I don't want to play only overwatch, I want to play other games. Yes, 8000Hz looks great, but it just doesn't work. I have a feeling that I was simply deceived. It will be years before any developer decides to add support for such a mouse to their game.

it IS a game architecture thing. on the one hand this is 2021 tech, on the other hand games from 2012 actually runs past 300 fps stable on the average last year sweetspot+ gear in all low...and i do mean dota 2 and csgo. not even overwatch, unless u only play dm and dm comp whenever that arrives like, once a year for 2 weeks (smh). (edit: i actually just tested and it seems like on some smaller maps it floats lowest 310-320 ish, result not conclusive, but with dota 2 and csgo they are pretty much not so different, and I don't know any other impactful titles worth mentioning tbo, pubg as I said demands 120% scaling and that means 200fps ish, and even if it supposedly has 60hz servers now...there's just not a lot of fast swiping in that game...nor should it be that kind of game...but the speed where 2k hz is reached is still relatively slow, and 8khz speed isn't THAT high either.. so yeah depending on your edpi in various zoom settings..you DO still swipe fast enough to go above 2khz, even in dad games.. read below to understand the relevance.. wt while easily getting the most potential fps for an 2015/onward game if it's air vs air only modes up on higher altitudes, never was gonna be esport ready lul...and I don't blame Gaijin alone , because even if they are the best devs ever the dogfight/boom zoom tactics are still gonna be a bit too much for the youngsters these days...and because they are not the best devs their tank modes are pure trash...wasted potential everywhere .....oh and r6s of course is a dead afterthought..)

games simply use more complex architecture that hogs the hardware so much that the mouse doesn't get enough love (this includes simple things like having more complex model skeletons/ragdoll/sfx particles/mechanics logic even in all low ofc). I say this not because having 300+ fps stable validify having a 300hz+ monitor and then demanding beyond 1k hz. Because if you bothered to read this thread you know that 8khz is in and of itself superior for its own reasons. I'm just going off a hunch and you'd want enough hardware headroom to be confident that something that peaks your monitor compliments for more or less 8x, is gonna also be in a comfortable spot, doing god's work.

ALSO VERY IMPORTANT PLZ READ RAZER: I was gonna comment on this and I may have already acclude to this prior (you'd have heard this earlier if you sent me a test copy around same time as Chief, theFiend, but now is not too late since it's not on a new shape anyways), but your algo for scaling "hz" doesn't really keep the same density through out, or rather I never expected it to keep through and through and it was so unsurprising I completely forgotten to analyze it even just a bit. To be more exact, at around 2-3khz dotting starts to appear. That means your hz ratio isn't scaling up fast enough to keep up with the speed increase. It's like there's a "hz" acceleration with accordance to speed, yet this was supposed to eliminate the dotting that would clearly go rampant if during moderate to fast swiping the hz is still like 20 hz as it were in low speed. This might seem like a reasonable limit/tradeoff to some, but it really isn't, because THIS MEANS that the 8khz is effectively useless and fake in terms of keeping it tight, except at around 2k, where the hz isn't too bloated and you cannot see much dotting, meaning there is absolutely NO pixel skipping due to an inferior overall "resolution". Below 2k it's just TOO dense it's completely unnecessary (which again justify a "dynamic hz" but that's not the problem here because...) above 2k it goes the other way...and very obvious very fast.. although not as bad as 1khz.. There's something clearly very crooked with the graph, even if you consider the fact that games like pubg require high precision sub pixel aiming, and that fast swiping games are generally much more broad stroke while flicking as fast as they do

Whatever areson can test out, the result of maxed 8khz swiping is still commendable and respectable, but unless there's actually problem with areson showing actual plot of 8khz swiping/you wanna provide your own tool for this/there is a better tool to test this, I simply can't see how this can be considered true 8khz money for money. we are actually on the brink of a new realm of "fake dpi war" and you heard it here first folks, I am going to change this industry right here right now, marketing has failed to speak truth yet again. Because pixel skipping is equivalent to a part of the effect of low hz and that is then equivalent to what smoothing mainly does to the aim pattern...

This means that it doesn't matter how high the hz number is, it would still scale too slow even if the max is 24k hz, IF a similar algo is applied as such, and that 24k isn't enough raw horsepower to completely overwhelm the flick speed( edpi choice doesn't affect this much/I don't want to over-complicate an already extended post)


Of course this means that 1khz is basically obsolete and you'd be crazy to still use it for serious competition, because they basically use similar algo, and you are simply using a broken car that's 8x cheaper.

I've read this a few time and tried to understand it, but i don't (im just a layman).

Can you provide a summary for a layman - are you saying 8Khz in this mouse is fake or that it's not good? I'm intrigued and want to understand the TLDR if there is one.

[lyrill]

I already done tons of edits n highlighted the important bits to help with reading I'm not sure what you are trying to insinuate. I will post vid explaining this but likely not in english. You can thank r/mouse for that.

[Chief Blur Buster]

I already done tons of edits n highlighted the important bits to help with reading I'm not sure what you are trying to insinuate. I will post vid explaining this but likely not in english. You can thank r/mouse for that.

I don't understand parts of it either. What do you mean by "dotting"?

Do you mean phantom array effect seen at www.blurbusters.com/stroboscopics -- that is caused by display refresh rate limitation, not even 8000 Hz can fix it.

Perhaps it's an English language terminology issue, please describe.

Also make sure you've given the 8KHz mouse its own private USB port array, not shared with others.

[lyrill]

I already done tons of edits n highlighted the important bits to help with reading I'm not sure what you are trying to insinuate. I will post vid explaining this but likely not in english. You can thank r/mouse for that.

I don't understand parts of it either. What do you mean by "dotting"?

Do you mean phantom array effect seen at www.blurbusters.com/stroboscopics -- that is caused by display refresh rate limitation, not even 8000 Hz can fix it.

Perhaps it's an English language terminology issue, please describe.

Also make sure you've given the 8KHz mouse its own private USB port array, not shared with others.

As said it's best if RAZER provides in house tool also for areson/mouse test 2007 MFC equivalent, to eliminate any potential problem and limitations, because I tested on zowie and other site in browser and they limit to 6khz result, where as unclicking "current rate" which is on by default and thus most people don't care in mouserate.exe actually allows unlocked "average rate" shown and it's similar to the actual result of mouse movement recorder, aka around 8khz.

dotting as in pixelation, gaps, no longer a smooth continuous drawn mouse path.. .(if only monitor ppi is infinitely high, and eye ppi perception also, you only need to look closer to see the crevice in ANY gear..but then by that tech eon we'd have a god mouse too..) Per your 3x+ rule, by the time of 2026 where we are scheduled to see 1000hz regular ol 1080p esport monitors (well I am not adding retina resolution on top of it to complicate current topic point but I did urge for higher ppi specifically over higher hz), dotting optimizations on this mouse front even if only up to 4khz compliments each other nicely. 2khz "PERFECT HZ" as I now call it, as it stands would be obviously not enough.


or even higher hz to alleviate this problem a bit by brute hz coupled with lighter material shielding tech (but this is not likely because since I already reported this issue I'd not like this to go unchecked even for the next 8khz release let alone say 8x8 or 64x8khz), or 4khz wireless tech, but we were last told it's not happening within 5 years. and it would likely be much harder to optimize than wired as it is.

[Chief Blur Buster]

Ah, that. My browsers tend to only work to 3000Hz-5000Hz,

It's a confirmed browser limitation that needs to be fixed by Google/FireFox/Edge/etc. The HTML5 PointerEvents array overflows because the HTML5/browser standards were never designed for 8KHz. But it should be easy to extend with some code commits (to Chromium / FireFox). However, native software works fine, but that unfortunately requires a software download.

Peeps, don't use mouse-Hz-test websites for 8KHz testing yet

It's part of why TestUFO mouse tester has not yet been released.

[lyrill]

nice, yeah if RAZER won't release one I'm certainly waiting for that from you if anyone is to make it