TIP: Always put high-Hz keyboard and high-Hz mouse on SEPARATE DEDICATED USB CHIPS.

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WelcomeInNewWorld
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Re: TIP: Always put high-Hz keyboard and high-Hz mouse on SEPARATE DEDICATED USB CHIPS.

Post by WelcomeInNewWorld » 27 Jan 2022, 13:52

Thanks chief for this precious advicce :D :D :D

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PanosX24
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Re: TIP: Always put high-Hz keyboard and high-Hz mouse on SEPARATE DEDICATED USB CHIPS.

Post by PanosX24 » 28 Jan 2022, 07:36

hello guys im new here but i read a lot here
So my mobo is ASUS RAMPAGE VI EXTREME X299
So i change Keyboard to asmedia controller on green {see photo}
and mouse on red intel usb
Image

i see diffrence on mousetester nice job
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Re: TIP: Always put high-Hz keyboard and high-Hz mouse on SEPARATE DEDICATED USB CHIPS.

Post by RealNC » 28 Jan 2022, 12:43

PS/2 Keyboard Master Race here :mrgreen:
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BTRY B 529th FA BN
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Re: TIP: Always put high-Hz keyboard and high-Hz mouse on SEPARATE DEDICATED USB CHIPS.

Post by BTRY B 529th FA BN » 28 Jan 2022, 12:53

Yeah I'm trying to find good recommendations for an add in PCIe USB card

Death_Lotus
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Re: TIP: Always put high-Hz keyboard and high-Hz mouse on SEPARATE DEDICATED USB CHIPS.

Post by Death_Lotus » 02 Mar 2022, 22:42

Hello,

is there any list of recommended PCIe USB cards?
The only user feedback here in this thread recommends the Inateck card with the Fresco chipset.
Is it just because of the additional power connection? I thought PCIe can deliver up to 75 W or something like that.

I am trying to get a Huntsman V2 (8 KHz) and a Viper (8 KHz) running.
Furthermore, I've got a X570 Elite mainboard.
In the manual/specification it states, that four USB 3.1 ports are run directly by the CPU and the remaining USB 3.0 and USB 3.1 ports are run by the onboard X570 chipset.
Would be a setup like this the best?
Use the CPU ports only for the keyboard.
Use an additional PCIe USB card for the mouse.
Use the chipset ports for the rest (mic, webcam, dac, external hdd, usb hub).

Asking this, because, while the Huntsman works perfectly, running the Viper with anything above 1 KHz is terrible when playing League of Legends. I actually experience constant mouse stuttering and some kind of disruptions and somehow I cannot find any feedback or users with that mouse in any league community (lol discord, reddit).
For other games like Battlefield or Valroant it seems to be much better, but I get the ocassional kind of mouse lag spike there.
BTRY B 529th FA BN wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 12:53
Yeah I'm trying to find good recommendations for an add in PCIe USB card
Did you try any card then?

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BTRY B 529th FA BN
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Re: TIP: Always put high-Hz keyboard and high-Hz mouse on SEPARATE DEDICATED USB CHIPS.

Post by BTRY B 529th FA BN » 02 Mar 2022, 23:09

Death_Lotus wrote:
02 Mar 2022, 22:42
Hello,

is there any list of recommended PCIe USB cards?
The only user feedback here in this thread recommends the Inateck card with the Fresco chipset.
Is it just because of the additional power connection? I thought PCIe can deliver up to 75 W or something like that.

I am trying to get a Huntsman V2 (8 KHz) and a Viper (8 KHz) running.
Furthermore, I've got a X570 Elite mainboard.
In the manual/specification it states, that four USB 3.1 ports are run directly by the CPU and the remaining USB 3.0 and USB 3.1 ports are run by the onboard X570 chipset.
Would be a setup like this the best?
Use the CPU ports only for the keyboard.
Use an additional PCIe USB card for the mouse.
Use the chipset ports for the rest (mic, webcam, dac, external hdd, usb hub).

Asking this, because, while the Huntsman works perfectly, running the Viper with anything above 1 KHz is terrible when playing League of Legends. I actually experience constant mouse stuttering and some kind of disruptions and somehow I cannot find any feedback or users with that mouse in any league community (lol discord, reddit).
For other games like Battlefield or Valroant it seems to be much better, but I get the ocassional kind of mouse lag spike there.
BTRY B 529th FA BN wrote:
28 Jan 2022, 12:53
Yeah I'm trying to find good recommendations for an add in PCIe USB card
Did you try any card then?
No I didn't.

I think the main thing is to separate the mouse and keyboard onto different eXtensible Host Controllers. I asked around a little bit and and someone said a X570 USB Host Controller will still use a PCIe CPU lane from the chipset, however I can't confirm that. But separating them, one on the Direct CPU lanes, and one on the X570 lane does make a noticeable difference with me, even when I was using two 1K-Hz input devices.

I'm currently using the direct CPU to USB lanes for both my input devices.

If you were to put a PCIe USB card onto one of the CPU PCIe lanes that would reduce the GPU to 8x lanes.

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Re: TIP: Always put high-Hz keyboard and high-Hz mouse on SEPARATE DEDICATED USB CHIPS.

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 03 Mar 2022, 21:59

BTRY B 529th FA BN wrote:
02 Mar 2022, 23:09
I'm currently using the direct CPU to USB lanes for both my input devices.

If you were to put a PCIe USB card onto one of the CPU PCIe lanes that would reduce the GPU to 8x lanes.
There are other legit reasons, too. May not apply to your motherboard. But the problem is there's a lot of crappy motherboards.

Sometimes they share all the USB/SATA/etc processing out of the wazoo. Or that there's a lot of EMI noise in the circuit traces on that other part of the motherboard (the lane used by the onboard USB ports -- a motherboard manufacturer traced USB problems to this). Or produces more congested lanes than a sole USB device on a PCIe card. Also the motherboard drivers can sometimes be more inefficiently written than the PCIe USB driver.

If your mouse driver CPU% is low (even at 8KHz) and your USB jitter is low, you don't really need a PCIe USB card.

However, it's a solution that bypassed USB mis-performance hell (latency/jitter) for a few people, and people at Razer confirmed that PCIe USB can be a solution for some users who don't want to replace their motherboards.

Yes, you should be strategic, so don't plug a USB card into the slot that is most optimized for your x16 PCIe graphics card.

But it does suck if there are no other usable PCIe slots that does not steal a lane from the graphics slot or your NVMe slots, if you've plugged in your beaut of a RTX 3080 and a couple of NVMe SSDs onto the motherboard slots (and/or possibly something else), and have no spare lane for a PCIe USB card to bypass a hairpulling problematic USB implementation of a motherboard...
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Re: TIP: Always put high-Hz keyboard and high-Hz mouse on SEPARATE DEDICATED USB CHIPS.

Post by dervu » 09 Apr 2022, 10:51

Why does that happen?


When I connect 1khz polling rate mouse to Startech PCI-E USB card that is connected to x16 PCI-E port set to x8 then it looks like first graph (intermittent slower Hz). Nothing else is connected to this card at this time. It has SATA power connected to it.

When I same mouse to motherboard USB that goes to CPU then mousetester graph looks like second graph (good one).
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Re: TIP: Always put high-Hz keyboard and high-Hz mouse on SEPARATE DEDICATED USB CHIPS.

Post by BTRY B 529th FA BN » 09 Apr 2022, 21:24

@dervu cause it's fighting everything going through the PCH, there's only one x16 CPU PCIe slot

Here's a block diagram of your board
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/22709 ... ml?page=21

Here's a block diagram of the MSI MEG X570 GODLIKE
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/22639 ... ml?page=24'

Desktop boards that support more than 1 full x16 CPU PCI Express slot have the advantage. Even 1 x16 CPU PCIe + 1 x8 CPU PCIe configuration has an advantage. The last boards I had that supported 2x 16x CPU PCIe lanes was an X58 UD7 Rev. 2.0 I think my X58 EVGA Classified did too? I think the reason why there are so few Desktop boards with 2 or more full PCIe 16x lanes is the traces and signal integrity. From what I heard it's difficult and expensive to do this.

My perfect mainstream board would have 1 full CPU PCIE x16 slot with no switch and another CPU PCIE slot x4. No one runs dual GPUs, and most people have a discrete sound card or a discrete Ethernet card.

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Re: TIP: Always put high-Hz keyboard and high-Hz mouse on SEPARATE DEDICATED USB CHIPS.

Post by DPRTMELR » 17 Apr 2022, 23:54

I've followed the suggestions in this thread by plugging my keyboard to ps2(i think its native ps2 because it promises more keys pressed on ps2 mode), took away some pcie resource going to my 2nd nvme driver and enabled asmedia host controller then got hit with this :
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Instead of the 4+5 ports (and a usb c port) being divided equally between intel controller and asmedia, what I see is some kind of usb virtual power elevation situation where usb 2.0s get listed along as the regular composites, and the 3.0's would automatically get shifted onto the virtual "super speed hub" where they would run as 3.0s. Same behavior on windows 10. I've confirmed a usb 3.0 stick working like this but the mouse is stuck on 2.0 regardless of where I plug it into. beside emailing asus devs, is there anything I can do on my end? because to me this looks like intel xhci has to work twice to process the same thing D:

Also for the mousetester how do people do their swipes for the test and for how long? I wanted to compare my graph vs. what I see online but I haven't seen a guideline anywhere regarding this topic.



-update 04/27

I've confirmed the usb resource shenanigans working as intended(the design just sucks) in above device manager by overloading all of the asmedia "hub ports" and managed crackling noises from the USB Dac on the same hub (never had issues with everything on intel's), which has buffer latency on it's own of 1.5~2ms (I am assuming this is equivalent to having a 500hz mouse active). While the game feels "amazing" on 8k(without any significant feeling of jerkyness, either in 64tick or 128tick of CSGO servers), I've decided to settle down at 4khz to give myself some buffer so that I won't ever have to reboot into w10 and then back to w7 mid game.

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I've done affinities for usb controller and hubs but not the nvidia graphic cards, nvidia seems to shift them around even when threaded optimization is disabled and I have no idea how the interrupts coming from another cpu's load effect things.

Anyway according to Ian Cutress from Anandtech (the same doctor that keeps banging on core to core latency for every major cpu releases) core 0~1 is closest to SA, while later ones closer to graphics PCIE. The problem is I have no idea how the core order counting goes and how forcing thread affinities would effect cache prefetching related ordeals (prefetching from adjacent cores you say.. adjacent to whom and what? xd). I am tipping towards unsetting the affinities on my next distateful experience I come across and let the windows scheduler handle it.

At this point only way I can save on bandwidth is by trying out the realtek audio instead of usb dac, but they are also usb resources so I've been hesitant. Similarly headphone directly onto the monitor is a way but ehhhhhhhh.

Otherwise, the experience is great and the 4k mouse really compliments 360hz gaming well.


random thoughts:

Second mining gpu operating at pci 2x gen1 in board's 4x slot adds like 30us of system latency even with the monitor unplugged, you will never achieve this (and neither will I again =\) as long as I have it running in my system. Plan accordingly if the bestest-est ever possible gaming experience is your only interest. (360hz with 8k mouse)

I have decided not to use the first slot of the asmedia 3.2 hub that happens to be right below the ps2 port for the mouse because more I read about z490/z590 board resourcing the more I think this is a screw up by Asus. I mean everything does work, but I can't shake the feeling that it's just a "good enough" solution to avoid people complaining about half of their USB ports not working. Another thing is my board's XHCI is not under any "pci bus" while the asmedia controller is sharing a lane with ethernet, so fingers crossed somebody knew what they were doing and their host controller is supposed to be quicker than the asmedia's somehow mechanically.

There's reason why they sell z590s cheaper than z490s. There's a couple of more aspects of the board that should not be overlooked that I have overlooked for decades now (mostly due to ignorance), which I will be keeping my eyes for. I haven't really looked into it but I think easiest way to figure it out is to browse those VM communties and see what they are saying that has "good iommu group right out of the box" on top of every other solid stronk board features, will get to test it at 2024 hopefully.

And out of all the upgrades I've done, the best one by far was switching from wifi over to straight ethernet connection. Even on 10900k/4400c17 390hz screen using windows 7 optimized (or maybe because of this set up that let's not worry about other variances) it's not the dip to 340fps mid gunfight or even a dip to 300 on certain parts of inferno that gets you killed. It's the netgraph spewing out reds once everywhile that does it for me. csgo sucks

and kudos to 500mhz players that's been getting shat on by the casuals telling them "it makes no differences", yeah it does in your cpu clock cycles D=
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