How to optimize Windows 10 for Low Input Lag?

Everything about latency. Tips, testing methods, mouse lag, display lag, game engine lag, network lag, whole input lag chain, VSYNC OFF vs VSYNC ON, and more! Input Lag Articles on Blur Busters.
ffs_
Posts: 47
Joined: 24 Jul 2020, 00:57

Re: How to optimize Windows 10 for Low Input Lag?

Post by ffs_ » 02 Nov 2020, 11:32

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
01 Nov 2020, 13:46
The moral of the story is that HPET is not a one-size-fixes-all. There are pros/cons of HPET. Respect the pros/cons. It helps some, not others. It is a double edged sword with two very sharp edges -- and sometimes it's also additionally hanging like a Sword of Damocles above a floor that will explode if you don't catch the sword with your bare hands first.
Yep, exactly. :)
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
01 Nov 2020, 13:46
The Blur Busters Vicious Cycle Effect is colliding hard with these ISR times, making this a potential new entrant to The Amazing Human Visible Feats Of The Millisecond.
That was a good read, thank you.
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
01 Nov 2020, 13:46
A 0.5ms gametme-vs-photontime error is human visible nowadays under extreme-clear display conditions (2 pixels of stutter at 4000 pixels/second on a true realworld 0.5ms-MPRT strobed 4K display, especially with a >2000Hz pollrate mouse). When display motionblur (MPRT, and not GtG) in milliseconds is less than ISR times, then Houston We Have a Problem when jitter noise goes above human visibility noisefloor due to retina-resolutions and retina-refreshrates.

Not everyone is running display configurations that will make ISR stutter visible, but we're already getting into the territory with cherrypicked displays, in a cherrypicked game, configured to cherrypicked settings, if mouse is not the weak link, if display is not the weak link, if the game is not the weak link. And assumes that really bad DPC/ISR impacts the gametime:photontime relativity by jittering gametimes (frametimes) towards/away from refreshtimes.
I don't disagree with importance of DPC/ISR though. Of course if we talk about latency then we want it as low as possible. :) The main point was that even if HPET raises latency of the system, the amount of added latency isn't big enough to get out of "low latency" zone. At least on my system there is no significant difference. And of course I don't recommend anyone to use (or to don't use) HPET, because different settings might get different results on different systems. :)

MT_
Posts: 113
Joined: 17 Jan 2017, 15:39

Re: How to optimize Windows 10 for Low Input Lag?

Post by MT_ » 06 Nov 2020, 15:57

Got PC and Laptop here (High-end, Z390 platform) both with modified BIOS to expose HPET option (Verified and works).

On 1809 LTSC there is zero evidence that either enabling or disabling does anything what so ever, let alone for gaming.
(Not in the DPC/ISR latency, timer performance, frametimes, etc)

The only thing that affects everything is having HPET enabled in BIOS and then force this platform timer as the default (With useplatformclock yes).

Even windows itself will start becoming slow as hell, that is because there is a bug with the later Intel systems that makes accessing HPET timer incredibly slow.

Some people have said in the past that 'disabling HPET' will significantly improve things, this is mostly caused by software that FORCED HPET as the global system timer to begin with. (AMD software that literally adds bcdedit entry, etc) which is NOT the default from Windows 10. There should not be such an entry in BCD at all. (Imagine some random software just doing this on an Intel system and the user was never aware of it)

Even if Windows does NOT use HPET by default as the system timer, it is still recommended to keep it enabled in the BIOS, as per Microsoft;
"To reduce the adverse effects of this frequency offset error, recent versions of Windows, particularly Windows 8, use multiple hardware timers to detect the frequency offset and compensate for it to the extent possible. This calibration process is performed when Windows is started."
Lastly, I want to say that different timers (Also Windows timer resolution) can have very subtle effects, in regard to gaming it can for instance increase the granularity and accuracy of the in-game frame limiter, which is beneficial for tearing and especially G-sync)
LTSC 21H2 Post-install Script
https://github.com/Marctraider/LiveScript-LTSC-21H2

System: MSI Z390 MEG Ace - 2080 Super (300W mod) - 9900K 5GHz Fixed Core (De-lid) - 32GB DDR3-3733-CL18 - Xonar Essence STX II

howiec
Posts: 183
Joined: 17 Jun 2014, 15:36

Re: How to optimize Windows 10 for Low Input Lag?

Post by howiec » 08 Nov 2020, 23:54

MT_ wrote:
06 Nov 2020, 15:57
Even if Windows does NOT use HPET by default as the system timer, it is still recommended to keep it enabled in the BIOS, as per Microsoft;
"To reduce the adverse effects of this frequency offset error, recent versions of Windows, particularly Windows 8, use multiple hardware timers to detect the frequency offset and compensate for it to the extent possible. This calibration process is performed when Windows is started."
Lastly, I want to say that different timers (Also Windows timer resolution) can have very subtle effects, in regard to gaming it can for instance increase the granularity and accuracy of the in-game frame limiter, which is beneficial for tearing and especially G-sync)
Agreed. Proven via reproducible testing.

Simon95
Posts: 57
Joined: 13 Feb 2019, 06:56

Re: How to optimize Windows 10 for Low Input Lag?

Post by Simon95 » 09 Nov 2020, 06:35

I have a 120fps cap in the menu of cs go. When I use the 0.5ms timer then the FPS are at 119. when I don’t use the lower timer the FPS is hovering between 115 and 119.

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RamenRider
Posts: 56
Joined: 25 Jul 2018, 07:14

Re: How to optimize Windows 10 for Low Input Lag?

Post by RamenRider » 03 Feb 2023, 18:57

1000WATT wrote:
30 Oct 2020, 08:35
howiec wrote:
29 Oct 2020, 17:06
Also, on some systems like mine (Asus Hero X), you cannot disable HPET in the BIOS. Unless I'm missing something, disabling HPET in dev mgr, deleting useplatformclock, enabling useplatformtick should achieve the same/similar results.
FYI, I also enable disabledynamictick .
This is a modified BIOS for X HERO 2301. Firmware via usb drive. Experiment if you like.
201030161707.jpg
201030161620.jpg

If you change xhci. the keyboard will not work in bios but will work in win. Reset BIOS will help.
I'll tell you on my own: I use the default settings.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JrB6hT ... sp=sharing
Excuse me? Would you happen to know how to modify MSI x570 boards as well? I would love to turn off HPET pls :)

assombrosso
Posts: 279
Joined: 29 Nov 2021, 10:34

Re: How to optimize Windows 10 for Low Input Lag?

Post by assombrosso » 04 Feb 2023, 03:16

I don’t know about all of you but stock windows 10 should give you no input lag

Slender
Posts: 571
Joined: 25 Jan 2020, 17:55

Re: How to optimize Windows 10 for Low Input Lag?

Post by Slender » 04 Feb 2023, 19:40

assombrosso wrote:
04 Feb 2023, 03:16
I don’t know about all of you but stock windows 10 should give you no input lag
you talking about windows antimalware, 200 processes and xbox gamepanel?

Shade7
Posts: 222
Joined: 25 May 2022, 18:44

Re: How to optimize Windows 10 for Low Input Lag?

Post by Shade7 » 04 Feb 2023, 20:32

Slender wrote:
04 Feb 2023, 19:40
assombrosso wrote:
04 Feb 2023, 03:16
I don’t know about all of you but stock windows 10 should give you no input lag
you talking about windows antimalware, 200 processes and xbox gamepanel?
Yes- I think he means that.

Microsoft's background apps/processes are pretty much nothing compared to what builds using parts from the last 2 generations can handle. If your experience isn't smooth out of the box after a brief setup (driver updates, some surface level settings, any necessary software), then something is probably wrong.

User avatar
RamenRider
Posts: 56
Joined: 25 Jul 2018, 07:14

Re: How to optimize Windows 10 for Low Input Lag?

Post by RamenRider » 11 Feb 2023, 09:28

MT_ wrote:
06 Nov 2020, 15:57
Got PC and Laptop here (High-end, Z390 platform) both with modified BIOS to expose HPET option (Verified and works).

The only thing that affects everything is having HPET enabled in BIOS and then force this platform timer as the default (With useplatformclock yes).

Even windows itself will start becoming slow as hell, that is because there is a bug with the later Intel systems that makes accessing HPET timer incredibly slow.

Some people have said in the past that 'disabling HPET' will significantly improve things, this is mostly caused by software that FORCED HPET as the global system timer to begin with. (AMD software that literally adds bcdedit entry, etc) which is NOT the default from Windows 10. There should not be such an entry in BCD at all. (Imagine some random software just doing this on an Intel system and the user was never aware of it)

Lastly, I want to say that different timers (Also Windows timer resolution) can have very subtle effects, in regard to gaming it can for instance increase the granularity and accuracy of the in-game frame limiter, which is beneficial for tearing and especially G-sync)
Yes very true. Timers do in fact affect gaming and is on the list of every input lag guide. So what are the best BCD commands to use? There's just so many different formations. For the longest time last year I really liked using useplatformtick no + disabledynamictick no + tscsyncpolicy Legacy and it felt really good however everyone else seems to have different opinions.

However I still want to test out disabling HPET in BIOS but my x570 doesn't have that option.

2 other great tweaks is to somehow get rid of DWM forced vsync and fix disable fullscreen optimization which you can find on my thread.

Sebichek45
Posts: 60
Joined: 01 Dec 2022, 08:06

Re: How to optimize Windows 10 for Low Input Lag?

Post by Sebichek45 » 11 Feb 2023, 10:52

RamenRider wrote:
11 Feb 2023, 09:28
MT_ wrote:
06 Nov 2020, 15:57
Got PC and Laptop here (High-end, Z390 platform) both with modified BIOS to expose HPET option (Verified and works).

The only thing that affects everything is having HPET enabled in BIOS and then force this platform timer as the default (With useplatformclock yes).

Even windows itself will start becoming slow as hell, that is because there is a bug with the later Intel systems that makes accessing HPET timer incredibly slow.

Some people have said in the past that 'disabling HPET' will significantly improve things, this is mostly caused by software that FORCED HPET as the global system timer to begin with. (AMD software that literally adds bcdedit entry, etc) which is NOT the default from Windows 10. There should not be such an entry in BCD at all. (Imagine some random software just doing this on an Intel system and the user was never aware of it)

Lastly, I want to say that different timers (Also Windows timer resolution) can have very subtle effects, in regard to gaming it can for instance increase the granularity and accuracy of the in-game frame limiter, which is beneficial for tearing and especially G-sync)
Yes very true. Timers do in fact affect gaming and is on the list of every input lag guide. So what are the best BCD commands to use? There's just so many different formations. For the longest time last year I really liked using useplatformtick no + disabledynamictick no + tscsyncpolicy Legacy and it felt really good however everyone else seems to have different opinions.

However I still want to test out disabling HPET in BIOS but my x570 doesn't have that option.

2 other great tweaks is to somehow get rid of DWM forced vsync and fix disable fullscreen optimization which you can find on my thread.

are you going to update your amd guide anytime soon? Also by thread you mean the links right?

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