30 FPS on PC - Vsync vs Adaptive Vsync vs RTSS?

Everything about latency. Tips, testing methods, mouse lag, display lag, game engine lag, network lag, whole input lag chain, VSYNC OFF vs VSYNC ON, and more! Input Lag Articles on Blur Busters.
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jorimt
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Re: 30 FPS on PC - Vsync vs Adaptive Vsync vs RTSS?

Post by jorimt » 09 Nov 2020, 10:29

blazeddd wrote:
09 Nov 2020, 00:16
Just finished the game but I did try DX11 a few minutes ago. FPS went up to about 65-70 but still no gsync indicator or hz/fps matching like with G-SYNC Pendulum Demo or starcraft 2 or any other game. Double checked my nvidia control panel settings to make sure as well.. not sure why gsync won't activate with legion.
The performance uptick is because DX11 doesn't support RTX. As for G-SYNC, I've run out of idea. It's either user error (unlikely from what you've tried thus far), a unique configuration issue in your specific case, and/or something in the game that needs patching.
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
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Stooovie
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Re: 30 FPS on PC - Vsync vs Adaptive Vsync vs RTSS?

Post by Stooovie » 05 Feb 2021, 07:54

Are you on AMD or Intel CPU? I have never been able to have smooth, stutter-free play with AMD 3900x, no matter what I tried. Even when RTSS reported good to perfect frame times. I switched to i9 10850k and it's been smooth sailing ever since. Same gpu (a lowly rx 580 8 GB), 1080p limited in-game to 50fps, mostly very high settings.

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SixelAlexiS
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Re: 30 FPS on PC - Vsync vs Adaptive Vsync vs RTSS?

Post by SixelAlexiS » 06 Mar 2021, 14:04

What about users that doesn't have a VRR monitor? From all the test I did the most reliable solution is the Nvidia half sync, but then you have a lot of input lag. I've tried capping at 29.90HZ with RTSS and I get indeed less input lag but then as soon I get a tiny hiccup I get a visible stutter, while without the cap the game is super smooth.
I've tried X/2 s-sync but is unreliable, it works on some engine and it doesn't in others.

yamaci1775
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Re: 30 FPS on PC - Vsync vs Adaptive Vsync vs RTSS?

Post by yamaci1775 » 02 Jul 2022, 05:33

SixelAlexiS wrote:
06 Mar 2021, 14:04
What about users that doesn't have a VRR monitor? From all the test I did the most reliable solution is the Nvidia half sync, but then you have a lot of input lag. I've tried capping at 29.90HZ with RTSS and I get indeed less input lag but then as soon I get a tiny hiccup I get a visible stutter, while without the cap the game is super smooth.
I've tried X/2 s-sync but is unreliable, it works on some engine and it doesn't in others.
I really wonder, what kind of low lag vsync ps4 consoles employ?

i've tried witcher 3, god of war and couple other games on ps4 and they have MUUUCH less input lag than on PC with 1/2 vsync. i've even did a side by side comparisons, with different setups. only way to match god of war ps4 input lag is to run the game with vsync+framecap just a bit above 30 but then picture becomes stuttery

what's going on here? how can we achieve the console level vsync+low input lag?

there also do not seem to be any weird "stutter-smooth-stutter" cycle like it happens when you enable vsync+cap framerate a bit below it. i dont really understand, how is this possible?

i generally wonder that is it a pipedream to chase that smooth, perfect 30 fps ps4 provides on a 60 hz screen? there's not a singular definitive guide that has provides ways to exactly make, say, god of war on PC at 30 fps just like it is smooth and low lag on PS4. as i said, i'm doing side by sides, some people on forums assume that "consoles" have "high" lag or something but it is even worse and jarring on PC and not jarring on PS4. i dont want super smooth 30 fps. i know that 30 fps is not supposed to be smooth. but ps4 god of war 30 fps is pleasant to play and not JARRING. no matter what I try on PC, following chief's and many other's suggestions, i cant get that kind of non-jarring 30 fps gameplay.

i have a 5600x + rtx 3070 rig. im running the game on ps4 original settings on a samsung 970 evo drive at 1080p. gpu load is %20, cpu load is %10-15. so hardware is not the problem here.

its just an experimental thing. i can get 1440p/60+ fps just fine. but not being able to achieve that console like 30 fps, i also feel like we at PC probably getting inferior 60/120 fps experience compared to consoles. if that's the case, i simply plan on transitioning to consoles

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SixelAlexiS
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Re: 30 FPS on PC - Vsync vs Adaptive Vsync vs RTSS?

Post by SixelAlexiS » 02 Jul 2022, 10:39

yamaci1775 wrote:
02 Jul 2022, 05:33
SixelAlexiS wrote:
06 Mar 2021, 14:04
What about users that doesn't have a VRR monitor? From all the test I did the most reliable solution is the Nvidia half sync, but then you have a lot of input lag. I've tried capping at 29.90HZ with RTSS and I get indeed less input lag but then as soon I get a tiny hiccup I get a visible stutter, while without the cap the game is super smooth.
I've tried X/2 s-sync but is unreliable, it works on some engine and it doesn't in others.
I really wonder, what kind of low lag vsync ps4 consoles employ?

i've tried witcher 3, god of war and couple other games on ps4 and they have MUUUCH less input lag than on PC with 1/2 vsync. i've even did a side by side comparisons, with different setups. only way to match god of war ps4 input lag is to run the game with vsync+framecap just a bit above 30 but then picture becomes stuttery

what's going on here? how can we achieve the console level vsync+low input lag?

there also do not seem to be any weird "stutter-smooth-stutter" cycle like it happens when you enable vsync+cap framerate a bit below it. i dont really understand, how is this possible?

i generally wonder that is it a pipedream to chase that smooth, perfect 30 fps ps4 provides on a 60 hz screen? there's not a singular definitive guide that has provides ways to exactly make, say, god of war on PC at 30 fps just like it is smooth and low lag on PS4. as i said, i'm doing side by sides, some people on forums assume that "consoles" have "high" lag or something but it is even worse and jarring on PC and not jarring on PS4. i dont want super smooth 30 fps. i know that 30 fps is not supposed to be smooth. but ps4 god of war 30 fps is pleasant to play and not JARRING. no matter what I try on PC, following chief's and many other's suggestions, i cant get that kind of non-jarring 30 fps gameplay.

i have a 5600x + rtx 3070 rig. im running the game on ps4 original settings on a samsung 970 evo drive at 1080p. gpu load is %20, cpu load is %10-15. so hardware is not the problem here.

its just an experimental thing. i can get 1440p/60+ fps just fine. but not being able to achieve that console like 30 fps, i also feel like we at PC probably getting inferior 60/120 fps experience compared to consoles. if that's the case, i simply plan on transitioning to consoles
I did a LOT of testing for CEMU while I was trying to run Zelda BoTW at 30FPS. Even if I ended up playing at 60FPS with a better PC, I still used a similar method to play it for avoid some stutters and other emulator/game issues.

Basically the trick was to use the RTSS cap in "front edge sync" mode, in theory it should add a bit of more input lag compared to a plain "async" cap but it's much more reliable in term of smoothness and stutters.

For the half sync you have to use the one in Nvidia Profile Inspector, otherwise the Nvidia Control Panel one will tear.
Give it a try and see how it goose.
Btw Nvidia Profile Inspector in some cases can cause issues with video drivers, at least it happened to me with some settings not working anymore at some point and had to reinstall video drivers. Don't know if it's still a thing with DCH drivers tho, maybe not but yeah, worst case scenario you just do a clean install of Nvidia video drivers.

To recap:

- Run the monitor at 60Hz (better if 60.000Hz)
- Remove any in-game vsync or cap
- Use Nvidia Profile Inspector half sync (example)
- Open RTSS and set a 30FPS cap (NO s-sync, only the cap) in "front edge sync" mode

The "front edge sync" mode can be access by pressing the blue "Setup" button on the game profile and then scrolling down to "enable framerate limiter" and change it from "async" to "front edge sync".

Let me know how it is compared to the PS4 :)

yamaci1775
Posts: 14
Joined: 27 Jan 2019, 02:29

Re: 30 FPS on PC - Vsync vs Adaptive Vsync vs RTSS?

Post by yamaci1775 » 02 Jul 2022, 13:51

SixelAlexiS wrote:
02 Jul 2022, 10:39
yamaci1775 wrote:
02 Jul 2022, 05:33
SixelAlexiS wrote:
06 Mar 2021, 14:04
What about users that doesn't have a VRR monitor? From all the test I did the most reliable solution is the Nvidia half sync, but then you have a lot of input lag. I've tried capping at 29.90HZ with RTSS and I get indeed less input lag but then as soon I get a tiny hiccup I get a visible stutter, while without the cap the game is super smooth.
I've tried X/2 s-sync but is unreliable, it works on some engine and it doesn't in others.
I really wonder, what kind of low lag vsync ps4 consoles employ?

i've tried witcher 3, god of war and couple other games on ps4 and they have MUUUCH less input lag than on PC with 1/2 vsync. i've even did a side by side comparisons, with different setups. only way to match god of war ps4 input lag is to run the game with vsync+framecap just a bit above 30 but then picture becomes stuttery

what's going on here? how can we achieve the console level vsync+low input lag?

there also do not seem to be any weird "stutter-smooth-stutter" cycle like it happens when you enable vsync+cap framerate a bit below it. i dont really understand, how is this possible?

i generally wonder that is it a pipedream to chase that smooth, perfect 30 fps ps4 provides on a 60 hz screen? there's not a singular definitive guide that has provides ways to exactly make, say, god of war on PC at 30 fps just like it is smooth and low lag on PS4. as i said, i'm doing side by sides, some people on forums assume that "consoles" have "high" lag or something but it is even worse and jarring on PC and not jarring on PS4. i dont want super smooth 30 fps. i know that 30 fps is not supposed to be smooth. but ps4 god of war 30 fps is pleasant to play and not JARRING. no matter what I try on PC, following chief's and many other's suggestions, i cant get that kind of non-jarring 30 fps gameplay.

i have a 5600x + rtx 3070 rig. im running the game on ps4 original settings on a samsung 970 evo drive at 1080p. gpu load is %20, cpu load is %10-15. so hardware is not the problem here.

its just an experimental thing. i can get 1440p/60+ fps just fine. but not being able to achieve that console like 30 fps, i also feel like we at PC probably getting inferior 60/120 fps experience compared to consoles. if that's the case, i simply plan on transitioning to consoles
I did a LOT of testing for CEMU while I was trying to run Zelda BoTW at 30FPS. Even if I ended up playing at 60FPS with a better PC, I still used a similar method to play it for avoid some stutters and other emulator/game issues.

Basically the trick was to use the RTSS cap in "front edge sync" mode, in theory it should add a bit of more input lag compared to a plain "async" cap but it's much more reliable in term of smoothness and stutters.

For the half sync you have to use the one in Nvidia Profile Inspector, otherwise the Nvidia Control Panel one will tear.
Give it a try and see how it goose.
Btw Nvidia Profile Inspector in some cases can cause issues with video drivers, at least it happened to me with some settings not working anymore at some point and had to reinstall video drivers. Don't know if it's still a thing with DCH drivers tho, maybe not but yeah, worst case scenario you just do a clean install of Nvidia video drivers.

To recap:

- Run the monitor at 60Hz (better if 60.000Hz)
- Remove any in-game vsync or cap
- Use Nvidia Profile Inspector half sync (example)
- Open RTSS and set a 30FPS cap (NO s-sync, only the cap) in "front edge sync" mode

The "front edge sync" mode can be access by pressing the blue "Setup" button on the game profile and then scrolling down to "enable framerate limiter" and change it from "async" to "front edge sync".

Let me know how it is compared to the PS4 :)
okay, this is the best i've tried so far. not bad, very playable and not "jarring". why nvidia does not employ this by default? setting front edge sync reduced the input lag hugely but how?

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SixelAlexiS
Posts: 26
Joined: 05 Mar 2021, 04:02

Re: 30 FPS on PC - Vsync vs Adaptive Vsync vs RTSS?

Post by SixelAlexiS » 03 Jul 2022, 06:01

yamaci1775 wrote:
02 Jul 2022, 13:51
okay, this is the best i've tried so far. not bad, very playable and not "jarring". why nvidia does not employ this by default? setting front edge sync reduced the input lag hugely but how?
This is the official description:

Image

From what I've understand, it basically doesn't cap the game based on frametime (like async do, which cause a lot of issues with many games since it's hard to stay on 16.6ms all the time, especially by forcing it with external cap), and instead it lock it at the chosen framecap but the frametime has a bit of "room" to avoid stutters and provide a stable and smooth image.
This add a bit of input lag compared to async from what I remember and tested (description say the same), but was still worth for the overall smoothness and stability.

Try with the same settings I told you, but by changing only the framerate limit to "async", "front edge sync" and "back edge sync", this last one should have less input lag for example but for me wasn't smooth.

Try those three and see the pro and cons.
For s-sync instead, from my experience it only works for extremely light games, like 2D one. Anything 3D that is a bit more complex and it's a tear or stutter fest and isn't worth spending time in trying to move terline and flush thing, never got decent outcomes. I want to to be extremely smooth, no tear and no microstutter and s-sync has too many shortcomings.

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