It was MALWAREBYTES | After 7 years, floaty mouse/issues solved!

[nuggify]

Your "perfectly fine" is what other people who don't have other huge latency bottlenecks might consider "laggy". Latency isn't black or white, you don't either have it or don't have it. There always is latency, whether it's 1 picosecond or 1 second. All you can do is work your way forward and get rid of as many bottlenecks as possible.

I have an optimized gaming OS and without a single exception it ALWAYS feels infinitely better than my daily non-gaming operating system (compatibility), no matter at what time of the day or what day of the year I boot into it. They are PERMANENT latency reduction optimizations.

For example, if your monitor is affected by EMF of some random device and as a consequence increases your input lag, you can PERMANENTLY get rid of that specific latency bottleneck by simply moving said device far enough away.

I don't know what exact problem you're facing (apparently you don't either) but to assume that it applies to everyone and that everything other people do to mitigate a part of their latency is placebo is simply ignorant.

Yeah that really is not true. The computers at large esports events do not have highly optimized OS's and yet those players preform with minimal input lag. Those PCs are working properly and as the engineers that built those components intended. There are not an infinite number of bottlenecks, it just feels that way when you have electrical problems causing a cascade of issues with inputs. Yes you can mitigate some of these impacts (like you did with your super special roached out gaming PC) but at the end of the day its never as good as someone operating their PC at a place with zero electrically induced problems.

Modern day monitors and PCs are largely immune to EMF. Especially 60 or 50hz AC EMF. That article you refer to is speaking about RF, and the TV there is a particular instance of a terribly designed product. For the most part unless you have absurd RFI (and you would definitely know it) its just not going to effect devices all that much.... Unless you have underlying problems on top of that, like we do.

Sorry I have seen it enough times that I wont sit here and bury my head in the sand anymore. I believe I can see with some clarity on this as I have the problem fairly severe. Maybe for many it is not that bad. But it sure makes it abundantly clear what is what when I can take my PC to a friends and it preforms flawlessly. No need to do ten thousand arbitrary reg-edit tweaks or messing with the electrical setup. It just works.

[nuggify]

I could try turning them on again tomorrow and see if they return. I've been too busy enjoying myself today because I can reliably aim now. Unfortunately no, I never disabled my AV, because it was never an issue even way back when I first bought it. I always had it in the background even when I did well in tournaments. Idk if a new AV update came out that started bogging things down at some point, but I just know that I started to degrade in accuracy around 2013.

Yeah well its fairly easy to confirm or not. But might as well enjoy it while its good, as it will only be temporary. Its not a real solution if its not reproducible.

[Hey]

Since everyone has a different experience tackling input lag issues, I will also share my ordeal. Whenever I reinstall Windows, clean install through usb rather than reset, until the first restart Windows, especially games, ‘feel’ smoother. Obviously, it is rather bothersome to reinstall windows over and over. I reinstall games after installing windows however, having a disk with your preferred gaming platform and/or game installed beforehand and simply reusing the same usb to reinstall windows on a different disk, which you dedicate solely for the OS, whenever you need to restart might be viable, at least to some extent as Windows installation is quite short.
Even though when I Google Windows performance after clean install, all I see is performance issues, that is not the case for me. IIRC, several other users had similar experiences, with smoothness of clean Windows until restarting.

[ball2hi]

Yeah well its fairly easy to confirm or not. But might as well enjoy it while its good, as it will only be temporary. Its not a real solution if its not reproducible.

So I did two tests, one each. I have been playing Overwatch well over 6 hours.

I turned on all of Malwarebyte's protections and enabled it to startup on Windows. Restarted my computer.

Jumping into Overwatch I was unsure if anything had changed from movement, and at a glance while flicking it didn't look too bad. However, a change I have made (since disabling Malwarebytes) is turning off C States and AMD Cool&Quiet. I think that might have had an impact on why in Overwatch seemed to be running smooth enough, though I wasn't convinced because the visual looked a little choppy so I went to my other game to make sure it's not confirmation bias.

Left4Dead 2 is a game I'm far more familiar with, and puts a **lot** more work on the monitor and color transitioning between frames. The starting weapons include at least one fast-firing weapon. The uzi/smg are the fastest shooting weapons in the game, and each shot causes near screen-wide muzzle flash and also lights up the environment around you. It didn't take me long to see that my view didn't visually look fluid anymore and muzzle flash was making it impossible to see again.

I then disabled everything in Malwarebytes and disabled startup. Went into both games again and it was very noticeable how much more fluid the games looked, especially Left4Dead 2 since I could actually see during muzzle flash.

I think the issue with Malwarebytes was alleviated by the fact that I disabled c-stats and cool&quiet. But it was still nowhere near as clear visually when I turn Malwarebytes off.

Nice find if its fixed your input lag/problem but im pretty confident it will eventually come back ....like it allways does lol

At the very least, I hope it doesn't come back somehow to the same degree. It really upset me at the time that these 165hz monitors weren't smooth at all so I figured there was no point even looking into 240hz monitors since I figured the improvement would be minimal at best. Now that I see how 165hz looks properly... (or, at least I believe) I'm actually really curious how different 240hz looks in terms of visual clarity during high-motion.

[Unixko]

Yeah well its fairly easy to confirm or not. But might as well enjoy it while its good, as it will only be temporary. Its not a real solution if its not reproducible.

So I did two tests, one each. I have been playing Overwatch well over 6 hours.

I turned on all of Malwarebyte's protections and enabled it to startup on Windows. Restarted my computer.

Jumping into Overwatch I was unsure if anything had changed from movement, and at a glance while flicking it didn't look too bad. However, a change I have made (since disabling Malwarebytes) is turning off C States and AMD Cool&Quiet. I think that might have had an impact on why in Overwatch seemed to be running smooth enough, though I wasn't convinced because the visual looked a little choppy so I went to my other game to make sure it's not confirmation bias.

Left4Dead 2 is a game I'm far more familiar with, and puts a **lot** more work on the monitor and color transitioning between frames. The starting weapons include at least one fast-firing weapon. The uzi/smg are the fastest shooting weapons in the game, and each shot causes near screen-wide muzzle flash and also lights up the environment around you. It didn't take me long to see that my view didn't visually look fluid anymore and muzzle flash was making it impossible to see again.

I then disabled everything in Malwarebytes and disabled startup. Went into both games again and it was very noticeable how much more fluid the games looked, especially Left4Dead 2 since I could actually see during muzzle flash.

I think the issue with Malwarebytes was alleviated by the fact that I disabled c-stats and cool&quiet. But it was still nowhere near as clear visually when I turn Malwarebytes off.

Nice find if its fixed your input lag/problem but im pretty confident it will eventually come back ....like it allways does lol

At the very least, I hope it doesn't come back somehow to the same degree. It really upset me at the time that these 165hz monitors weren't smooth at all so I figured there was no point even looking into 240hz monitors since I figured the improvement would be minimal at best. Now that I see how 165hz looks properly... (or, at least I believe) I'm actually really curious how different 240hz looks in terms of visual clarity during high-motion.

Infinite loop my friend we start with malwarbytes only now we have C States and AMD Cool&Quiet like we say just take your time and report after 2 or 3 weeks
reporting every single day has no sense

[nuggify]

Infinite loop my friend we start with malwarbytes only now we have C States and AMD Cool&Quiet like we say just take your time and report after 2 or 3 weeks
reporting every single day has no sense

Indeed. Now its those settings + Malwarebytes xD. Yikes

[Brainlet]

However, a change I have made (since disabling Malwarebytes) is turning off C States and AMD Cool&Quiet.

NEVER change multiple variables at once. Always test one by one and give it some time before coming to a conclusion.

The computers at large esports events do not have highly optimized OS's and yet those players preform with minimal input lag.

https://liquipedia.net/counterstrike/Ba ... her/Former
Lots of them are still active and are considered among the best in the world
https://www.reddit.com/r/VACsucks/comme ... tacted_to/
I'm not going to get into this topic, a little bit of research and common sense should suffice to get a good overview of what's happening. I also won't reply to anything else regarding this topic in future posts since I doubt chief wants to see this here.

That article you refer to is speaking about RF

Some routers have very high electric fields with a quite large range on top of it. Another router only has 50 V/m (same outlet, same distance).

when I can take my PC to a friends and it preforms flawlessly. No need to do ten thousand arbitrary reg-edit tweaks or messing with the electrical setup.

And you confirmed how exactly that this is true? Did you live with him for weeks and test everything extensively? If not, this is a moot argument.

I wont sit here and bury my head in the sand anymore

Ironically, that's what you do regarding the software and hardware side of things, instead of acknowledging that those have an impact as well. You are doing the polar opposite of r0ach who doesn't acknowledge that power/emi is a serious issue.

[Unixko]

However, a change I have made (since disabling Malwarebytes) is turning off C States and AMD Cool&Quiet.

NEVER change multiple variables at once. Always test one by one and give it some time before coming to a conclusion.

The computers at large esports events do not have highly optimized OS's and yet those players preform with minimal input lag.

https://liquipedia.net/counterstrike/Ba ... her/Former
Lots of them are still active and are considered among the best in the world
https://www.reddit.com/r/VACsucks/comme ... tacted_to/
I'm not going to get into this topic, a little bit of research and common sense should suffice to get a good overview of what's happening. I also won't reply to anything else regarding this topic in future posts since I doubt chief wants to see this here.

That article you refer to is speaking about RF

Some routers have very high electric fields with a quite large range on top of it. Another router only has 50 V/m (same outlet, same distance).

when I can take my PC to a friends and it preforms flawlessly. No need to do ten thousand arbitrary reg-edit tweaks or messing with the electrical setup.

And you confirmed how exactly that this is true? Did you live with him for weeks and test everything extensively? If not, this is a moot argument.

I wont sit here and bury my head in the sand anymore

Ironically, that's what you do regarding the software and hardware side of things, instead of acknowledging that those have an impact as well. You are doing the polar opposite of r0ach who doesn't acknowledge that power/emi is a serious issue.

when I can take my PC to a friends and it preforms flawlessly. No need to do ten thousand arbitrary reg-edit tweaks or messing with the electrical setup.

ye this one is kinda tricky cuz i have many guys who bring they pc and monitor to new place it was 3 days perfect and then become shit again and also some guy who bring they pc and monitor to new pc and it was 7 days perfect and then become shit again
this is what i dont understand that why some places has more time then others to become worse like its mine pc affected forever and monitor and i corrupted new place overtime or where is the problem
like feels like best case scenario is new place and new pc and new everything nothing old from old place

[ball2hi]

Infinite loop my friend we start with malwarbytes only now we have C States and AMD Cool&Quiet like we say just take your time and report after 2 or 3 weeks
reporting every single day has no sense

Indeed. Now its those settings + Malwarebytes xD. Yikes

I never stated that C States and AMD Cool&Quiet made a difference after I disabled Malwarebytes. I said it made a difference when I re-enabled Malwarebytes for the quick test. I'm still testing other stuff that I try to imagine players at LANs are allowed to change, as well as every-day livestreamers that do well while running dozens of things at once. The problem(s) I had were most definitely solved by removing Malwarebytes and everything else I mess with after this has just been cherry picking, which I can't help since I've literally been obsessive over this for almost a decade. If anything, I'm messing with the stuff that I have in the past because I feel like I have a stable baseline now, such as fps-caps and gsync/vsync, ect.

At the point of posting this, the only thing that I've seen cause improvement was enabling Windows 10's Game Mode. Messing with hpet, timings, and other bcdedit stuff has not done anything for me.

NEVER change multiple variables at once. Always test one by one and give it some time before coming to a conclusion.

It was never meant to be a serious test. Especially since I don't want to go through that stress again of playing the way that I did before. I've been playing arm/wrist/shoulder pain free for 48 hours now, and would like to keep it that way.

[Chief Blur Buster]

ye this one is kinda tricky cuz i have many guys who bring they pc and monitor to new place it was 3 days perfect and then become shit again and also some guy who bring they pc and monitor to new pc and it was 7 days perfect and then become shit again
this is what i dont understand that why some places has more time then others to become worse like its mine pc affected forever and monitor and i corrupted new place overtime or where is the problem
like feels like best case scenario is new place and new pc and new everything nothing old from old place

Alas, it's the old troubleshoot problem --

Only high-end engineers have the ability to trace a lot of these causes. Sometimes it's a soup of EMI, software, OS, Internet, etc, and it's just pratically impossible for the Average Joe User to isolate a specific cause. We know all of 'em exist but it's so difficult to troubleshoot/isolate.

As we push the needle on the Vicious Cycle Effect (raised refresh rates and raised resolutions making tiny issues more visible) -- while simultaneously puffing the last vestiges of Moore's Law thermally-wise and gigahertz-wise (hitting brick walls that makes equipment more sensitive) -- we go squarely into territory of hard-to-troubleshoot issues.

We can only do our best, cherrypick equipment, software, tweaks, pressure vendors to pay more attention, locate computer away from strong EMI sources, etc. But it's fundamentally whac-a-mole to an extent.

I am even thoughtful of this when I design new proposals such as High Definition Mouse API is designed to de-jitter a lot of these factors too, because it is "sort" of an error correction for gaming mice by having sensor-side timestamping that becomes jitterproof (whether EMI hits a mouse cable, or a game engine tries to fudge timestamps around).

But that is only a small move, there's so many weak links in a modern gaming computer that will be a bottleneck in the refresh rate race to retina refresh rates.