Input Lag and Mouse Movement Tweaks for Gaming v3 2020 Edition

Everything about latency. Tips, testing methods, mouse lag, display lag, game engine lag, network lag, whole input lag chain, VSYNC OFF vs VSYNC ON, and more! Input Lag Articles on Blur Busters.
forii
Posts: 218
Joined: 29 Jan 2020, 18:23

Re: Input Lag and Mouse Movement Tweaks for Gaming v3 2020 Edition

Post by forii » 09 Mar 2021, 19:03

It will be placebo.
Just get Windows 20H2, everything is fixed in this system. And you dont even need to force off fullscreen optimisations in every game u play

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axaro1
Posts: 627
Joined: 23 Apr 2020, 12:00
Location: Milan, Italy

Re: Input Lag and Mouse Movement Tweaks for Gaming v3 2020 Edition

Post by axaro1 » 10 Mar 2021, 09:03

Don't use this guide, a lot of these tweaks are made by people who wear tinfoil hats, from my experience the best way to reduce input lag is to disabled services that you don't use and uninstall W10 bloatware apps (+ keep your drivers updated with every Windows 10 build iteration to make sure that you don't run into issues that can increase DPC latency).

Overclock your system as much as you can, disable power saving modes in both bios (C-States/ C&Q) and windows and you'll have a responsive machine.
XL2566K* | XV252QF* | LG C1* | HP OMEN X 25 | XL2546K | VG259QM | XG2402 | LS24F350[RIP]
*= currently owned



MONITOR: XL2566K custom VT: https://i.imgur.com/ylYkuLf.png
CPU: 5800x3d 102mhz BCLK
GPU: 3080FE undervolted
RAM: https://i.imgur.com/iwmraZB.png
MOUSE: Endgame Gear OP1 8k
KEYBOARD: Wooting 60he

empleat
Posts: 149
Joined: 28 Feb 2020, 21:06

Re: Input Lag and Mouse Movement Tweaks for Gaming v3 2020 Edition

Post by empleat » 10 Mar 2021, 20:39

forii wrote:
09 Mar 2021, 19:03
It will be placebo.
Just get Windows 20H2, everything is fixed in this system. And you dont even need to force off fullscreen optimisations in every game u play
What? Every game I play, if I don't turn off FSO: that game feels like underwater... I can clearly tell lower input lag, when I turn it off! https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/ ... mizations/
In Windowed mode DWM will force V-Sync. Hybdrid Fullscreen mode (windowed borderless mode) is shit and cause lag and stuttering! There are only like millions of posts on Reddit about it...
Many of these are certainly not placebo!!! That guide contains many useful Tweaks! Just FYI.
axaro1 wrote:
10 Mar 2021, 09:03
Don't use this guide, a lot of these tweaks are made by people who wear tinfoil hats, from my experience the best way to reduce input lag is to disabled services that you don't use and uninstall W10 bloatware apps (+ keep your drivers updated with every Windows 10 build iteration to make sure that you don't run into issues that can increase DPC latency).

Overclock your system as much as you can, disable power saving modes in both bios (C-States/ C&Q) and windows and you'll have a responsive machine.
Even if you have best CPU and 5000mhz low latency RAM, disabled C states. Doesn't save you from bad optimization, or bad drivers, which slow system responsiveness, or generate DPC latency. And various bottlenecks. Even some 500$ motherboards suffer from 1ms+ DPC latency. Also timers are important and various BIOS features. Besides lag, they can affect mousefeel greatly! I tested myself with blur busters input lag AB test thoroughly and I can tell 6ms difference in input lag! I was Supreme in CS GO. Many of these certainly not placebo tweaks. On clean install I couldn't even kill gold league player...

I have i5 9600Kf, 3200mhz g.skill, RTX 3070, 100us dpc latency mobo. And untweaked system feels like shit, can't hit anything!

It is not so simple, there are like millions of things... And all of them are huge deal. If you have 1000 things which add 50us, then you get to 5 ms...

greenenemy
Posts: 35
Joined: 11 Mar 2015, 04:45

Re: Input Lag and Mouse Movement Tweaks for Gaming v3 2020 Edition

Post by greenenemy » 11 Mar 2021, 04:51

@empleat
Check if you're getting tearing with FSO enabled.
If you have some kind of overlay for example Activate Windows watermark, that will get rid of screen tearing and increase input lag.
Last edited by greenenemy on 11 Mar 2021, 07:22, edited 1 time in total.

Unixko
Posts: 212
Joined: 04 Jul 2020, 08:28

Re: Input Lag and Mouse Movement Tweaks for Gaming v3 2020 Edition

Post by Unixko » 11 Mar 2021, 05:52

empleat wrote:
10 Mar 2021, 20:39
forii wrote:
09 Mar 2021, 19:03
It will be placebo.
Just get Windows 20H2, everything is fixed in this system. And you dont even need to force off fullscreen optimisations in every game u play
What? Every game I play, if I don't turn off FSO: that game feels like underwater... I can clearly tell lower input lag, when I turn it off! https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/ ... mizations/
In Windowed mode DWM will force V-Sync. Hybdrid Fullscreen mode (windowed borderless mode) is shit and cause lag and stuttering! There are only like millions of posts on Reddit about it...
Many of these are certainly not placebo!!! That guide contains many useful Tweaks! Just FYI.
axaro1 wrote:
10 Mar 2021, 09:03
Don't use this guide, a lot of these tweaks are made by people who wear tinfoil hats, from my experience the best way to reduce input lag is to disabled services that you don't use and uninstall W10 bloatware apps (+ keep your drivers updated with every Windows 10 build iteration to make sure that you don't run into issues that can increase DPC latency).

Overclock your system as much as you can, disable power saving modes in both bios (C-States/ C&Q) and windows and you'll have a responsive machine.
Even if you have best CPU and 5000mhz low latency RAM, disabled C states. Doesn't save you from bad optimization, or bad drivers, which slow system responsiveness, or generate DPC latency. And various bottlenecks. Even some 500$ motherboards suffer from 1ms+ DPC latency. Also timers are important and various BIOS features. Besides lag, they can affect mousefeel greatly! I tested myself with blur busters input lag AB test thoroughly and I can tell 6ms difference in input lag! I was Supreme in CS GO. Many of these certainly not placebo tweaks. On clean install I couldn't even kill gold league player...

I have i5 9600Kf, 3200mhz g.skill, RTX 3070, 100us dpc latency mobo. And untweaked system feels like shit, can't hit anything!

It is not so simple, there are like millions of things... And all of them are huge deal. If you have 1000 things which add 50us, then you get to 5 ms...
you get 1 ms difference with all tweaks wtf you are talking about xD
you cant feel difference with 1 ms difference
why did you feel difference with all this tweaks is something else which you dont wanna admit

forii
Posts: 218
Joined: 29 Jan 2020, 18:23

Re: Input Lag and Mouse Movement Tweaks for Gaming v3 2020 Edition

Post by forii » 11 Mar 2021, 06:47

empleat wrote:
10 Mar 2021, 20:39
forii wrote:
09 Mar 2021, 19:03
It will be placebo.
Just get Windows 20H2, everything is fixed in this system. And you dont even need to force off fullscreen optimisations in every game u play
What? Every game I play, if I don't turn off FSO: that game feels like underwater... I can clearly tell lower input lag, when I turn it off! https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/ ... mizations/
In Windowed mode DWM will force V-Sync. Hybdrid Fullscreen mode (windowed borderless mode) is shit and cause lag and stuttering! There are only like millions of posts on Reddit about it...
Many of these are certainly not placebo!!! That guide contains many useful Tweaks! Just FYI.
axaro1 wrote:
10 Mar 2021, 09:03
Don't use this guide, a lot of these tweaks are made by people who wear tinfoil hats, from my experience the best way to reduce input lag is to disabled services that you don't use and uninstall W10 bloatware apps (+ keep your drivers updated with every Windows 10 build iteration to make sure that you don't run into issues that can increase DPC latency).

Overclock your system as much as you can, disable power saving modes in both bios (C-States/ C&Q) and windows and you'll have a responsive machine.
Even if you have best CPU and 5000mhz low latency RAM, disabled C states. Doesn't save you from bad optimization, or bad drivers, which slow system responsiveness, or generate DPC latency. And various bottlenecks. Even some 500$ motherboards suffer from 1ms+ DPC latency. Also timers are important and various BIOS features. Besides lag, they can affect mousefeel greatly! I tested myself with blur busters input lag AB test thoroughly and I can tell 6ms difference in input lag! I was Supreme in CS GO. Many of these certainly not placebo tweaks. On clean install I couldn't even kill gold league player...

I have i5 9600Kf, 3200mhz g.skill, RTX 3070, 100us dpc latency mobo. And untweaked system feels like shit, can't hit anything!

It is not so simple, there are like millions of things... And all of them are huge deal. If you have 1000 things which add 50us, then you get to 5 ms...
Whats ur system? I was that guy like you who edided almost all part of my registry + added new ones but after all It was all bs (I mean, over there I believe that It helped)...
If it comes to FSE if u play dx12 games u dont need to bother.
fullscreen optimisations got fixed by microsoft, you shouldn't see any differences anyway, and if u do then ur system is old.
Overclock, disabling c-states in bios - yes that help but we getting close to more gaming system - finally, when you will not to do these things

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axaro1
Posts: 627
Joined: 23 Apr 2020, 12:00
Location: Milan, Italy

Re: Input Lag and Mouse Movement Tweaks for Gaming v3 2020 Edition

Post by axaro1 » 11 Mar 2021, 06:55

greenenemy wrote:
11 Mar 2021, 04:51
@empleat
Check if you're getting tearing with FSO off.
If you have some kind of overlay for example Activate Windows watermark, that will get rid of screen tearing and increase input lag.
I heard that FSO ON is actually better with newer builds of W10 2009.
XL2566K* | XV252QF* | LG C1* | HP OMEN X 25 | XL2546K | VG259QM | XG2402 | LS24F350[RIP]
*= currently owned



MONITOR: XL2566K custom VT: https://i.imgur.com/ylYkuLf.png
CPU: 5800x3d 102mhz BCLK
GPU: 3080FE undervolted
RAM: https://i.imgur.com/iwmraZB.png
MOUSE: Endgame Gear OP1 8k
KEYBOARD: Wooting 60he

greenenemy
Posts: 35
Joined: 11 Mar 2015, 04:45

Re: Input Lag and Mouse Movement Tweaks for Gaming v3 2020 Edition

Post by greenenemy » 11 Mar 2021, 07:30

axaro1 wrote:
11 Mar 2021, 06:55
I heard that FSO ON is actually better with newer builds of W10 2009.
When there is no overlay there should be no difference in input lag and at the same time you can view volume controls for example, it is better in that regard.
However when the overlay is permanently displayed over your game then input lag increases significantly. I've recorded game and mouse at the same time with my phone (60fps recording) and there is around one frame difference for FSO (with overlay only).

empleat
Posts: 149
Joined: 28 Feb 2020, 21:06

Re: Input Lag and Mouse Movement Tweaks for Gaming v3 2020 Edition

Post by empleat » 11 Mar 2021, 09:36

greenenemy wrote:
11 Mar 2021, 04:51
@empleat
Check if you're getting tearing with FSO enabled.
If you have some kind of overlay for example Activate Windows watermark, that will get rid of screen tearing and increase input lag.
I don't use any overlays! Using overlay will get rid of screen tearing and increase input lag. What???
Unixko wrote:
11 Mar 2021, 05:52
you get 1 ms difference with all tweaks wtf you are talking about xD
you cant feel difference with 1 ms difference
why did you feel difference with all this tweaks is something else which you dont wanna admit
I don't want to turn this into bragging... Can you please read again? I was talking about DPC latency!
BTW lets say: you have 144fps, imagine each frame you get lag 1ms. Now after period of 1 second, your mouse could lag lets say for simplicity each frame 1ms. That's 144ms lag total! This was meant to illustrate difference between 500/1000hz polling rates. Now tell me you can't tell difference between 500hz and 1000hz?! If so, then there is no point in arguing...
https://blurbusters.com/faq/mouse-guide/
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/ne ... -platform/
forii wrote:
11 Mar 2021, 06:47
Whats ur system? I was that guy like you who edided almost all part of my registry + added new ones but after all It was all bs (I mean, over there I believe that It helped)...
If it comes to FSE if u play dx12 games u dont need to bother.
fullscreen optimisations got fixed by microsoft, you shouldn't see any differences anyway, and if u do then ur system is old.
Overclock, disabling c-states in bios - yes that help but we getting close to more gaming system - finally, when you will not to do these things
I wrote my system specs in post you are quoting xD

Since DX12/Vulkan devs can choose to not implement Fullscreen exclusive mode into their games. So only Hybrid Fullscreen mode is left (FSO) which runs in Windowed Borderless mode! Windowed modes add delay! https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/ ... mizations/
Also DWM has control of a buffer, it can force V-Sync in this mode.

Doubt that! People still complain on reddit all day long about FSO!

PS: wouldn't expect so many input lag skeptics on BlurBusters.

If you don't trust anecdotes:
https://blurbusters.com/faq/mouse-guide/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... mechanics/
https://www.pcgamer.com/how-many-frames ... eally-see/
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/ne ... -platform/

Human brain and eyes are powerful tools, eye can see even 1 photon of light. Why do you think, it couldn't discern 1 ms repeating of delay?

greenenemy
Posts: 35
Joined: 11 Mar 2015, 04:45

Re: Input Lag and Mouse Movement Tweaks for Gaming v3 2020 Edition

Post by greenenemy » 11 Mar 2021, 11:01

empleat wrote:
11 Mar 2021, 09:36
I don't use any overlays! Using overlay will get rid of screen tearing and increase input lag. What???
...
...

Since DX12/Vulkan devs can choose to not implement Fullscreen exclusive mode into their games. So only Hybrid Fullscreen mode is left (FSO) which runs in Windowed Borderless mode! Windowed modes add delay! https://devblogs.microsoft.com/directx/ ... mizations/
Also DWM has control of a buffer, it can force V-Sync in this mode.
...
With FSO there is no v-sync, vsync is only turned on when there is an overlay that's why i asked if you have tearing it's a simple test.
Tearing = no vsync = no added input lag.

From the microsoft blog you mentioned:
To get back this performance overhead, we enhanced the DWM to recognize when a game is running in a borderless full screen window with no other applications on the screen. In this circumstance, the DWM gives control of the display and almost all the CPU/GPU power to the game. Which in turn allows equivalent performance to running a game in FSE. Fullscreen Optimizations is essentially FSE with the flexibility to go back to DWM composition in a simple manner. This gives us the best of both worlds with performance and other features that require the DWM, such as overlays. When an overlay such as the Game Bar is present, the DWM reassumes control of the display, and a slight performance overhead is incurred so that the overlay can be composited on top of the game in a safe and stable way. (To learn more about the Xbox Game bar, check out the info the Game Bar Team has information posted here.)

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