1600 dpi is better than 800 or 400 dpi due to faster mouse latency

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2mg
Posts: 21
Joined: 17 Jul 2018, 22:08

Re: 1600 dpi is better than 800 or 400 dpi due to faster mouse latency

Post by 2mg » 15 Apr 2021, 15:28

TTT wrote:
15 Apr 2021, 14:55
You still choose your ingame sensitivity no matter what DPI your mouse is, anybody can get the same turn circle distance with any DPI by upping or lowering the game sens, you don't just load the game and play on its default setting.

The post isn't talking about actual mouse sens per pixel, its talking about mouse input lag/time to respond to your input.
Sure, but isn't this a caveat in this story?

You ramp up your DPI to get the fastest response time from mouse to the game, then you chop it's head off by nerfing your accuracy because game sens will skip/double your inputs?

Basically, you're inputs are faster, but your aim is worse, no?

Wouldn't it be better to sacrifice some input time/lag and have a perfect aim at say 1400 DPI, and not touch sensitivity, be it Windows, or in-game (basically have them 1:1)?

TTT
Posts: 253
Joined: 28 Jul 2018, 14:17

Re: 1600 dpi is better than 800 or 400 dpi due to faster mouse latency

Post by TTT » 15 Apr 2021, 16:39

2mg wrote:
15 Apr 2021, 15:28
TTT wrote:
15 Apr 2021, 14:55
You still choose your ingame sensitivity no matter what DPI your mouse is, anybody can get the same turn circle distance with any DPI by upping or lowering the game sens, you don't just load the game and play on its default setting.

The post isn't talking about actual mouse sens per pixel, its talking about mouse input lag/time to respond to your input.
Sure, but isn't this a caveat in this story?

You ramp up your DPI to get the fastest response time from mouse to the game, then you chop it's head off by nerfing your accuracy because game sens will skip/double your inputs?

Basically, you're inputs are faster, but your aim is worse, no?

Wouldn't it be better to sacrifice some input time/lag and have a perfect aim at say 1400 DPI, and not touch sensitivity, be it Windows, or in-game (basically have them 1:1)?
I still don't really get what you are saying about "not touching ingame sensitivity", it is there to be adjusted to how you like it, there isn't a 1:1 of what the game should be played on, its just preference.

And I think you have still misunderstood the thread like I already said, the DPI isn't how quickly your pc/game responds to your mouse. Its how much it responds to a certain amount of input, not how quickly the input gets to your screen.

So the thread is implying by having the DPI low creates some kind of latency for whatever reason, the latency effects the time it takes for your mouse to completely react to your input on screen.

2mg
Posts: 21
Joined: 17 Jul 2018, 22:08

Re: 1600 dpi is better than 800 or 400 dpi due to faster mouse latency

Post by 2mg » 15 Apr 2021, 18:09

TTT wrote:
15 Apr 2021, 16:39
I still don't really get what you are saying about "not touching ingame sensitivity", it is there to be adjusted to how you like it, there isn't a 1:1 of what the game should be played on, its just preference.

And I think you have still misunderstood the thread like I already said, the DPI isn't how quickly your pc/game responds to your mouse. Its how much it responds to a certain amount of input, not how quickly the input gets to your screen.

So the thread is implying by having the DPI low creates some kind of latency for whatever reason, the latency effects the time it takes for your mouse to completely react to your input on screen.
Sorry if I worded things wrongly, I understand the point of higher DPI = better tracking (precision of input).

In fact, I thought it was obvious even without this thread, more DPI means more "snapshots" per inch, of course that would make your movement more precise (I'm not getting into how/if this works with very fast hand moves).

But regardless of possible improvement of tracking with higher DPI, I am asking in general - isn't higher DPI tracking benefit offset by the fact that you need your software (driver, injector, hook, game) to skip some inputs, otherwise your aim/cursor will spin like crazy - which is why people play at around 1000 DPI in the first place?

TTT
Posts: 253
Joined: 28 Jul 2018, 14:17

Re: 1600 dpi is better than 800 or 400 dpi due to faster mouse latency

Post by TTT » 15 Apr 2021, 18:26

2mg wrote:
15 Apr 2021, 18:09
TTT wrote:
15 Apr 2021, 16:39
I still don't really get what you are saying about "not touching ingame sensitivity", it is there to be adjusted to how you like it, there isn't a 1:1 of what the game should be played on, its just preference.

And I think you have still misunderstood the thread like I already said, the DPI isn't how quickly your pc/game responds to your mouse. Its how much it responds to a certain amount of input, not how quickly the input gets to your screen.

So the thread is implying by having the DPI low creates some kind of latency for whatever reason, the latency effects the time it takes for your mouse to completely react to your input on screen.
Sorry if I worded things wrongly, I understand the point of higher DPI = better tracking (precision of input).

In fact, I thought it was obvious even without this thread, more DPI means more "snapshots" per inch, of course that would make your movement more precise (I'm not getting into how/if this works with very fast hand moves).

But regardless of possible improvement of tracking with higher DPI, I am asking in general - isn't higher DPI tracking benefit offset by the fact that you need your software (driver, injector, hook, game) to skip some inputs, otherwise your aim/cursor will spin like crazy - which is why people play at around 1000 DPI in the first place?
The reason people use lower DPI, usually 400 or 800 is because apparently you get less jitter from the sensor or something along them lines, to be honest I'm not really sure how true that even is and if it is the mouse and sensor tech is much better now than it was when that came about.

When you say spin like crazy, do you mean the mouse control in game?

Just lower the ingame sensitivity if it is too fast, you don't adjust your mouse DPI depending on what a certain in game mouse sens is. Set a DPI and then change the different game settings to match each other.

I might be wrong here but what I think you are saying is you don't change in game default mouse sens, but you change your mouse DPI instead? Which if I'm right, read the last paragraph. :lol:

2mg
Posts: 21
Joined: 17 Jul 2018, 22:08

Re: 1600 dpi is better than 800 or 400 dpi due to faster mouse latency

Post by 2mg » 15 Apr 2021, 18:51

TTT wrote:
15 Apr 2021, 18:26
The reason people use lower DPI, usually 400 or 800 is because apparently you get less jitter from the sensor or something along them lines, to be honest I'm not really sure how true that even is and if it is the mouse and sensor tech is much better now than it was when that came about.

When you say spin like crazy, do you mean the mouse control in game?

Just lower the ingame sensitivity if it is too fast, you don't adjust your mouse DPI depending on what a certain in game mouse sens is. Set a DPI and then change the different game settings to match each other.

I might be wrong here but what I think you are saying is you don't change in game default mouse sens, but you change your mouse DPI instead? Which if I'm right, read the last paragraph. :lol:
I mean, you put your MegaUberMouse to 10K DPI, and you blow gently on your mouse and your character does 1080 degree spin. Or your cursor goes from one corner of the screen to another in 1milisecond.

Of course, you adjusted your sens in-game, I never adjusted DPI to sens per game :D

Anyway, years ago it was recommended that you set your mouse sens in Windows to 6/11, that'd give you 1:1 mouse input.
Today, we usually have games handle input directly, via raw_input. Some apply interpolation/smoothing, but that's another issue, and can be turned off.

Thing is, regardless if your DPI is 400, 1600, or 12000, you have to adjust your sensitivity, right? But doesn't game sensitivity operate on a finer granularity like Windows one does - you have a position where it's 1:1, and if you lower it, some input gets dropped, if you raise it, some interpolation or doubling happens.

Now what I'm talking about is that if you set your DPI to high, say 3200, you probably have to lower you game sens WAY lower. Which means that while your mouse might be tracking/reporting/whatever better, your game is actually dropping inputs way more frequently.

So my question is - is that bump in DPI worth it? Is a more "precise mouse" worth it if your software will have to cut that effect? Or am I just misinformed of how games handle sensitivity curves?

TTT
Posts: 253
Joined: 28 Jul 2018, 14:17

Re: 1600 dpi is better than 800 or 400 dpi due to faster mouse latency

Post by TTT » 16 Apr 2021, 03:50

2mg wrote:
15 Apr 2021, 18:51
TTT wrote:
15 Apr 2021, 18:26
The reason people use lower DPI, usually 400 or 800 is because apparently you get less jitter from the sensor or something along them lines, to be honest I'm not really sure how true that even is and if it is the mouse and sensor tech is much better now than it was when that came about.

When you say spin like crazy, do you mean the mouse control in game?

Just lower the ingame sensitivity if it is too fast, you don't adjust your mouse DPI depending on what a certain in game mouse sens is. Set a DPI and then change the different game settings to match each other.

I might be wrong here but what I think you are saying is you don't change in game default mouse sens, but you change your mouse DPI instead? Which if I'm right, read the last paragraph. :lol:
I mean, you put your MegaUberMouse to 10K DPI, and you blow gently on your mouse and your character does 1080 degree spin. Or your cursor goes from one corner of the screen to another in 1milisecond.

Of course, you adjusted your sens in-game, I never adjusted DPI to sens per game :D

Anyway, years ago it was recommended that you set your mouse sens in Windows to 6/11, that'd give you 1:1 mouse input.
Today, we usually have games handle input directly, via raw_input. Some apply interpolation/smoothing, but that's another issue, and can be turned off.

Thing is, regardless if your DPI is 400, 1600, or 12000, you have to adjust your sensitivity, right? But doesn't game sensitivity operate on a finer granularity like Windows one does - you have a position where it's 1:1, and if you lower it, some input gets dropped, if you raise it, some interpolation or doubling happens.

Now what I'm talking about is that if you set your DPI to high, say 3200, you probably have to lower you game sens WAY lower. Which means that while your mouse might be tracking/reporting/whatever better, your game is actually dropping inputs way more frequently.

So my question is - is that bump in DPI worth it? Is a more "precise mouse" worth it if your software will have to cut that effect? Or am I just misinformed of how games handle sensitivity curves?

Yea I know what you mean now haha.

Well like I said people recommended it on older mice but now the sensors and mice are alot better it probably doesn't matter, but I haven't actually seen the evidence as to why in the first place.

But thats the whole point of this post, RJN is actually recommending you to not use the lower DPI on the new 8K razer, but potentially this is even on all modern mice and nobody has tested.

The only way to find out what works for you is test both ways, set your DPI to 800 and figure out your turn circle in game sens, then play with 1600dpi and half the ingame sens so it will be the same input sens. Maybe this post applies and you will notice better input lag, maybe you notice you jitter more, maybe you notice nothing so do whatever you want.

Alot of these things are just because pros of the olden days do it so everybody else does it because they are good player 'so it seems to work'. :lol:

forii
Posts: 218
Joined: 29 Jan 2020, 18:23

Re: 1600 dpi is better than 800 or 400 dpi due to faster mouse latency

Post by forii » 21 Apr 2021, 14:40

I did some test if pixel skipping really exist. I run my game: COD MW. I go into custom game with 8x max zoom on a sniper.
I run my 8 sens @ 800 dpi and I compare it with 4 sens @ 1600 dpi.
Clearly (on high zoom- long range) 1600 dpi with 4 sens was more smooth compare to 800 dpi with higher sens, which was more jittering.
My dpi + sens doesn't skip pixels like people talk, but I could clearly feel the jitter on 800 dpi, which on 1600 dpi I didnt feel at all, and it was more smooth/natural to me.
I think you should care about higher dpi only if u really play on high dpi or higher resolution.
My 21cm/360 sens needs to be on 1600 dpi.
If would u play on 42cm/360 then u can stick on 800 dpi.

There is simple calculator from OW engine. Not sure if it works for other game, but it got confirmed by me in COD MW.
https://pyrolistical.github.io/overwatch-dpi-tool/

I had to set my windows sensitivity to 4/11 but I heard most new games like this setting anyway.

ELK
Posts: 125
Joined: 18 Dec 2015, 02:51

Re: 1600 dpi is better than 800 or 400 dpi due to faster mouse latency

Post by ELK » 14 May 2021, 04:00

There is an era of mice that when running at non native dpi performed much worse.

High DPI mice use smoothing. They add lag to the mouse to give it's program time to clean out all of the errors it is making. Unfortunately, it's disregards dpi for this. A 4000dpi mouse that requires a bunch of smoothing will still use the same duration of smoothing even at 400dpi. The fastest most responsive mice are some of the earliest optical mice because it used, you could say, raw data. raw input from mouse still means the mouse is going to do all of it's laggy processing.

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axaro1
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Re: 1600 dpi is better than 800 or 400 dpi due to faster mouse latency

Post by axaro1 » 14 May 2021, 04:16

ELK wrote:
14 May 2021, 04:00
High DPI mice use smoothing.
Not necessarily.
It depends on the sensor architecture and most importantly disabling ripple (for Pixart sensors).

The 3389, 3370 and 3399 all perform better than old optical sensors such as the 3310.
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