useplatformtick and/or disabledynamictick on mouse input lag

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MatrixQW
Posts: 278
Joined: 07 Jan 2019, 10:01

Re: useplatformtick and/or disabledynamictick on mouse input lag

Post by MatrixQW » 29 May 2021, 05:26

MT_ wrote:
28 May 2021, 09:53
As for windowed/fullscreen I'm pretty sure that's totally out of the scope of timerbench or this whole thread.
The scope of both is about timers.

In any case you should use fullscreen because windowed will probably give worse results.
I get lower 99th percentile with 640x480 fullscreen than windowed.
I was just pointing to test it like in a real case scenario for GPU bounded but if you want to see how system behaves without GPU at 99% then yes, reduce resolution.

ashrr
Posts: 50
Joined: 21 Jun 2019, 10:12

Re: useplatformtick and/or disabledynamictick on mouse input lag

Post by ashrr » 29 May 2021, 14:50

MatrixQW wrote:
27 May 2021, 17:26
I would start by using stock frequencies for CPU and GPU, and XMP profile for memory.
Also in BIOS disable CPU turbo mode and power savings.
What motherboard do you have?
If it's ASUS you can try a few things.

I'm gonna try with the synthetic timer but it shouldn't cause issues since it was implemented to avoid exactly this type of problem.
I've had a chance to try your suggestions and I'm seeing the same issue. I have an Asrock Z370 K6.

MatrixQW
Posts: 278
Joined: 07 Jan 2019, 10:01

Re: useplatformtick and/or disabledynamictick on mouse input lag

Post by MatrixQW » 30 May 2021, 05:51

ashrr wrote:
29 May 2021, 14:50
I've had a chance to try your suggestions and I'm seeing the same issue. I have an Asrock Z370 K6.
It's possible that your board BIOS settings are messing with the CPU or it could be a faulty mb/cpu/psu.

Stock frequencies for CPU/GPU and clean Windows without tweaks.
Set useplatformtick and disabledynamictick to 'yes'. If it still drifts, leave it on anyway.

BIOS settings: Using your board's manual

OC Tweaker Screen
Advanced Turbo disabled
Load Optimized CPU OC Setting disabled
Load Optimized GPU OC Setting disabled

- CPU Configuration
Multi Core Enhancement disabled
CPU Ratio 36 (don't know what values show up in your BIOS but must make it stock frequency)
CPU Cache Ratio 36
Minimum CPU Cache Ratio 36
BCLK Frequency (it should set itself once you use XMP memory profile)
Spread Spectrum disabled
Boot Performance Mode Max Non-Turbo
Intel SpeedStep Technology disabled
Intel Turbo Boost Technology disabled
Intel Speed Shift Technology disabled

- DRAM Configuration
Load XMP Setting enabled
MRC Fast Boot disabled

Advanced Screen
- CPU Configuration
CPU C States Support disabled
Enhanced Halt State (C1E) disabled

- Chipset Configuration
Primary Graphics Adapter PCI Express
IGPU Multi-Monitor disabled

- ACPI Configuration
ACPI HPET Table enabled

nax_dv
Posts: 10
Joined: 11 May 2021, 02:31

Re: useplatformtick and/or disabledynamictick on mouse input lag

Post by nax_dv » 31 May 2021, 04:38

MatrixQW wrote:
27 May 2021, 04:58
empleat wrote:
20 May 2021, 15:32
Unreazz wrote:
20 May 2021, 13:36
bcdedit /disablesynamicktick made no diffrences for me.
Really you can't tell? This disables dynamic timer resolution, disabling this disables acceleration put simply.
What acceleration?!
It just keeps sending ticks to the system even if no events occur.
When a game/app calls the system timer it should remain active as long the program keeps running.
There was a bug with this in the past but Microsoft fixed it, so it shouldn't be a problem now.
Of course if you still want to be safe there should be no harm to disable dynamic ticks.

The useplatformtick uses RTC as the system timer instead of the synthetic timer.
If I'm not mistaken, the synthetic timer was introduced because CPU's without Invariant TSC cannot maintain the needed precision and timer would drift. CPU power savings would make it worse.
So to avoid problems, Microsoft decided to keep the synthetic timer as the main timer.
I think the synthetic timer is actually faster than RTC and that's why you have less than 1ms or 0.5ms, but do all the tests you want.
A CPU with I-TSC should not have issues using RTC.

The app CPU-Z has a tool called "Timers".
Run it, play a game for some time and when you're done, all three timers should match.
If they don't, you have an issue.

Im on 20H2 on a 10700k, 4000mhz 16-16-16-36 b die ram.

useplatformtick and disabledynamictick on AND off makes no difference. ACPI and QPC timer is always a bit quicker than my RTC timer no matter what. I noticed this when I upgraded my CPU but could not figure out why the timer drift is more noticeable compared to my old rig (pretty sure my old rig had in-sync timers). My cpu is at a stable 5.1 OC, and my old rig was also overclocked as well. Is RTC timer drift really that big of an issue? If so, how can I fix it?

MatrixQW
Posts: 278
Joined: 07 Jan 2019, 10:01

Re: useplatformtick and/or disabledynamictick on mouse input lag

Post by MatrixQW » 31 May 2021, 05:49

nax_dv wrote:
31 May 2021, 04:38
ACPI and QPC timer is always a bit quicker than my RTC timer no matter what. I noticed this when I upgraded my CPU but could not figure out why the timer drift is more noticeable compared to my old rig (pretty sure my old rig had in-sync timers). My cpu is at a stable 5.1 OC, and my old rig was also overclocked as well.
The fact that you overclocked two systems and had/have timer sync issues on both tells me enough.
Even if overclock is stable, something is screwing the timers.
Could be BIOS settings (CPU/memory) or faulty hardware/software.

Did you run the test in desktop or while playing?
It's also possible that in desktop it won't drift but once a game runs, it will.
If this occurs I simply don't know if CPU-Z can't reliably measure while gaming or there is actually an issue.
In my case I don't have timers sync issues even while gaming.

Is RTC timer drift really that big of an issue? If so, how can I fix it?
It is or can be. Games could actually feel out of sync.
Try what I just suggested to Ashrr.

MatrixQW
Posts: 278
Joined: 07 Jan 2019, 10:01

Re: useplatformtick and/or disabledynamictick on mouse input lag

Post by MatrixQW » 31 May 2021, 07:06

I'm wondering if electricity problems or alot of interferences like EMI could affect components an therefore the timers.
Don't know if it's possible.

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dervu
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Re: useplatformtick and/or disabledynamictick on mouse input lag

Post by dervu » 31 May 2021, 07:21

I just wonder if any of you know if this drift is actually real or some bug in CPU-Z. On overclock forums no one knew why and if it should be synced, one person said it could be bug. Maybe someone should ask developer.
I have it working perfectly synced on laptop with Intel CPU, it also boost clocks. On PC with AMD CPU with boost or without it is not synced, even on desktop without doing anything. Had it on previous older CPU, had it on one RAM sticks, had it on another, had it on old mobo, have it on new mobo.
Ryzen 7950X3D / MSI GeForce RTX 4090 Gaming X Trio / ASUS TUF GAMING X670E-PLUS / 2x16GB DDR5@6000 G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB / ASUS ROG SWIFT PG279QM / Logitech G PRO X SUPERLIGHT / SkyPAD Glass 3.0 / Wooting 60HE / DT 700 PRO X || EMI Input lag issue survivor

nax_dv
Posts: 10
Joined: 11 May 2021, 02:31

Re: useplatformtick and/or disabledynamictick on mouse input lag

Post by nax_dv » 31 May 2021, 08:22

MatrixQW wrote:
31 May 2021, 05:49
nax_dv wrote:
31 May 2021, 04:38
ACPI and QPC timer is always a bit quicker than my RTC timer no matter what. I noticed this when I upgraded my CPU but could not figure out why the timer drift is more noticeable compared to my old rig (pretty sure my old rig had in-sync timers). My cpu is at a stable 5.1 OC, and my old rig was also overclocked as well.
The fact that you overclocked two systems and had/have timer sync issues on both tells me enough.
Even if overclock is stable, something is screwing the timers.
Could be BIOS settings (CPU/memory) or faulty hardware/software.

Did you run the test in desktop or while playing?
It's also possible that in desktop it won't drift but once a game runs, it will.
If this occurs I simply don't know if CPU-Z can't reliably measure while gaming or there is actually an issue.
In my case I don't have timers sync issues even while gaming.

Is RTC timer drift really that big of an issue? If so, how can I fix it?
It is or can be. Games could actually feel out of sync.
Try what I just suggested to Ashrr.

No, my other overclocked computer had no issues. RTC was sometimes .01s off when i randomly stop it sometimes, but if i start again and stop, it would be in-sync. I would have to start/stop repeatedly and it'll maybe be off by .01s sometimes, but i think that's more of a cpu-z issue since 99% of the time no matter when i stop it, timers are all sync'd (regardless of useplatformtick on/off).

My current rig, i've tried stock settings w/ XMP profile, disabled all power saving things in bios, etc. no difference. Game doesnt necessarily feel out of sync, but im not exactly sure what u mean by that.

Also, I recently got a decent furman power conditioner with isolated filter banks that helps with EMI.

It seems like my issue is this, https://linustechtips.com/topic/50015-w ... ted-fixed/

Where I must enable useplatformclock (HPET) -- but by doing so, i get much lower framerates and way higher frame times.

MatrixQW
Posts: 278
Joined: 07 Jan 2019, 10:01

Re: useplatformtick and/or disabledynamictick on mouse input lag

Post by MatrixQW » 31 May 2021, 10:23

dervu wrote:
31 May 2021, 07:21
I just wonder if any of you know if this drift is actually real or some bug in CPU-Z. On overclock forums no one knew why and if it should be synced, one person said it could be bug. Maybe someone should ask developer.
If you have a considerable difference between them, the drift should be real.
Asking the developer would clear it up.
It's not that they need to be in sync. They should be in sync because if one of them isn't, it shows the timer in question probably wasn't/isn't working at the frequency it should.
On PC with AMD CPU with boost or without it is not synced, even on desktop without doing anything.
If CPU-Z has no bugs, that's not positive.

I left mine for 4 hours now, been playing also and there is a difference of 60ms in ACPI wich seems to be working at a bit higher speed.
Maybe due to CPU tiny fluctuations because it is not always 3500.00 GHz. In CPU-Z it's 3500.44 and 3499.18.
I doubt this is meaningful considering the 4 hours.
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MatrixQW
Posts: 278
Joined: 07 Jan 2019, 10:01

Re: useplatformtick and/or disabledynamictick on mouse input lag

Post by MatrixQW » 31 May 2021, 10:39

nax_dv wrote:
31 May 2021, 08:22
It seems like my issue is this, https://linustechtips.com/topic/50015-w ... ted-fixed/

Where I must enable useplatformclock (HPET) -- but by doing so, i get much lower framerates and way higher frame times.
That's a post from 2013. I would expect it to be fixed by now and the synthetic timer replaces RTC.
No, you should not use HPET.

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