Interference causing stutter and bad controls - My theory and a potential solution

Everything about latency. Tips, testing methods, mouse lag, display lag, game engine lag, network lag, whole input lag chain, VSYNC OFF vs VSYNC ON, and more! Input Lag Articles on Blur Busters.
Rallaz
Posts: 45
Joined: 12 May 2020, 08:41

Re: Interference causing stutter and bad controls - My theory and a potential solution

Post by Rallaz » 16 Jun 2021, 08:00

I wanna confirm that these Wurth Elektronik 829993STICK do NOT work to our belief. It doesnt make things lighter on heavy locations
USB 3.0 EMC stick development board with integrated ESD protection and EMI filter
It could also I'm testing it wrong but I simply plugged in the USB cable to it and plugged it in to the PC, but things feel exactly the same and my macro as well.

deama
Posts: 368
Joined: 07 Aug 2019, 12:00

Re: Interference causing stutter and bad controls - My theory and a potential solution

Post by deama » 16 Jun 2021, 08:12

nuggify wrote:
15 Jun 2021, 16:26
Rallaz wrote:
15 Jun 2021, 14:38
Just recently had a long conversation with an EMC company who specializes around EMC / EMI / EMF and RFI.

They are saying its extremely unlikely our problems would be any sort or any kind of interference.

Still they can not exclude some electricity problems over all but they are suggesting we should start looking in other directions most likely components like MOBO or Harddrives/Ssf/m2 fault.


It should not be any of these components thats faulty in general but its not impossible ofc, but if you tested x-amounts of gpu, cpu, ram, psu. It wont be the actual problem very likely.

Not either ethernet since the problem is still there offline.

Maybe they are right or wrong
They are wrong. As many of us have stated it does not matter how many different configs of new or different hardware you try. ALL COMPUTERS in my home have this issue. I have personally tried around 10-12 PCs here. I own 4, and friends/family have brought over PCs before and the problems are apparent on every single one of them. The hardware is NOT at fault. Don't know how many times we have to say these things.
Out of curiosity, have you tried downclocking your components a lot? E.g. downclocking CPU down to just 2Ghz, gpu down to 500mhz (memory clock too), ram hz as well? I was thinking cause of the higher hz, and the big interference, it's causing more error correction to happen or screwing up the signal in general because it's easier to screw up a higher hz signal than a lower one.

Rallaz
Posts: 45
Joined: 12 May 2020, 08:41

Re: Interference causing stutter and bad controls - My theory and a potential solution

Post by Rallaz » 16 Jun 2021, 10:16

deama wrote:
16 Jun 2021, 08:12
nuggify wrote:
15 Jun 2021, 16:26
Rallaz wrote:
15 Jun 2021, 14:38
Just recently had a long conversation with an EMC company who specializes around EMC / EMI / EMF and RFI.

They are saying its extremely unlikely our problems would be any sort or any kind of interference.

Still they can not exclude some electricity problems over all but they are suggesting we should start looking in other directions most likely components like MOBO or Harddrives/Ssf/m2 fault.


It should not be any of these components thats faulty in general but its not impossible ofc, but if you tested x-amounts of gpu, cpu, ram, psu. It wont be the actual problem very likely.

Not either ethernet since the problem is still there offline.

Maybe they are right or wrong
They are wrong. As many of us have stated it does not matter how many different configs of new or different hardware you try. ALL COMPUTERS in my home have this issue. I have personally tried around 10-12 PCs here. I own 4, and friends/family have brought over PCs before and the problems are apparent on every single one of them. The hardware is NOT at fault. Don't know how many times we have to say these things.
Out of curiosity, have you tried downclocking your components a lot? E.g. downclocking CPU down to just 2Ghz, gpu down to 500mhz (memory clock too), ram hz as well? I was thinking cause of the higher hz, and the big interference, it's causing more error correction to happen or screwing up the signal in general because it's easier to screw up a higher hz signal than a lower one.
I've tried that method on the lowest possible on everything, ram, gpu, cpu. No difference. Only thing thats making a difference is the time interval during a day, so in general at 8PM-04AM its becomes better over time starts around 8PM and at 12PM its usually nearly perfect not quite, but then around 1AM its usually the best it can be. This test had been done with both wired ethernet connected or without an ethernet cable so. I've actually not really a god damn clue whats happening other then some electrical problems.

User avatar
nuggify
Posts: 116
Joined: 25 Jan 2020, 16:57

Re: Interference causing stutter and bad controls - My theory and a potential solution

Post by nuggify » 17 Jun 2021, 14:58

deama wrote:
16 Jun 2021, 08:12
nuggify wrote:
15 Jun 2021, 16:26
Rallaz wrote:
15 Jun 2021, 14:38
Just recently had a long conversation with an EMC company who specializes around EMC / EMI / EMF and RFI.

They are saying its extremely unlikely our problems would be any sort or any kind of interference.

Still they can not exclude some electricity problems over all but they are suggesting we should start looking in other directions most likely components like MOBO or Harddrives/Ssf/m2 fault.


It should not be any of these components thats faulty in general but its not impossible ofc, but if you tested x-amounts of gpu, cpu, ram, psu. It wont be the actual problem very likely.

Not either ethernet since the problem is still there offline.

Maybe they are right or wrong
They are wrong. As many of us have stated it does not matter how many different configs of new or different hardware you try. ALL COMPUTERS in my home have this issue. I have personally tried around 10-12 PCs here. I own 4, and friends/family have brought over PCs before and the problems are apparent on every single one of them. The hardware is NOT at fault. Don't know how many times we have to say these things.
Out of curiosity, have you tried downclocking your components a lot? E.g. downclocking CPU down to just 2Ghz, gpu down to 500mhz (memory clock too), ram hz as well? I was thinking cause of the higher hz, and the big interference, it's causing more error correction to happen or screwing up the signal in general because it's easier to screw up a higher hz signal than a lower one.
Yup tried. It only temporarily provides some improvement.

ManWhoSoldTheWorld
Posts: 3
Joined: 18 Jun 2021, 18:58

Re: Interference causing stutter and bad controls - My theory and a potential solution

Post by ManWhoSoldTheWorld » 18 Jun 2021, 19:04

Have any of you tested a stationary vs. a laptop on battery? It might not be perfect on a laptop - BUT, if the electricity input is causing the issues on a stationary computer, a laptop running on its battery should give a different experience?

Unixko
Posts: 212
Joined: 04 Jul 2020, 08:28

Re: Interference causing stutter and bad controls - My theory and a potential solution

Post by Unixko » 18 Jun 2021, 19:10

ManWhoSoldTheWorld wrote:
18 Jun 2021, 19:04
Have any of you tested a stationary vs. a laptop on battery? It might not be perfect on a laptop - BUT, if the electricity input is causing the issues on a stationary computer, a laptop running on its battery should give a different experience?
what ever is powered on corrupted place will be bad everywhere but when you power up your nootebook/mobile on fixed place
will be perfect even on bad place until you power up from this bad place

User avatar
nuggify
Posts: 116
Joined: 25 Jan 2020, 16:57

Re: Interference causing stutter and bad controls - My theory and a potential solution

Post by nuggify » 20 Jun 2021, 16:50

ManWhoSoldTheWorld wrote:
18 Jun 2021, 19:04
Have any of you tested a stationary vs. a laptop on battery? It might not be perfect on a laptop - BUT, if the electricity input is causing the issues on a stationary computer, a laptop running on its battery should give a different experience?
If you read my post, you will see I have tried multiple laptops on battery. Same issues on there. No different. Something is corrupted when we plug it into the AC mains. No clue why, and its not permanent damage either.

Rallaz
Posts: 45
Joined: 12 May 2020, 08:41

Re: Interference causing stutter and bad controls - My theory and a potential solution

Post by Rallaz » 21 Jun 2021, 00:37

blackmagic wrote:
20 Jun 2021, 18:16
this gonna be my last comment on this forum.

i comment many and much of it is bullshit with bad english but i just tried to find logical answers for myself and looked for people who has same or similar worse experience and issues that literally appear out of nowhere and change everything to bad state...

sadly i still dont find a proper logical answer i was rly looking for.

the only thing i learned while troubleshoot that "problem" here -> THIS WORLD IS UNFAIR AND PURE PAIN IN THE ASS. (nothing new but atleast i know for sure now...). confirmed.

fairplay don't exist in our world and only these wins who realize it early and turn this to there knowledge and advantage...that the way of success and works most of the time in our world. approved.

on that way and path you are atleast going to be a winner in this "perfect" world...and that what matters only...or ?

maybe sounds stupid and selfish egoistic but it is what it is.
the sad truth about our world we living in.


i wish everyone luck to find solutions and fixes...

and stay healthy inside your mind if something is unexplainable and you don't know how to explain...don't went to deep in the rabbit hole...that can make you go crazy.


and thanks to this forum. its rly good place where people give attention to issues that many not even notice, recognize or even know that it exist...very weird issues that can turn your skills dramatically to the worst and in some cases even completely ruin the fun on gaming...like it happened for me.

i'm sure there many more people out there who don't even suspect that they have same but they just still don't realize it because of lack about this kind of issues that has huge affect on experience and how someone gonna perform in online games. and i just hope for them that they never get to know about this all...because that the point where the real issue starts and with it the endless search/research of possible causes and fixes...

i wish i could return back to the nirvana point where i don't noticed all this bullshit and when everything was normal for me and i could enjoy like normal human enjoy online gaming. these were good times where i could chill and was in peace with myself.

looks like we are the chosen ones and the first of the first who awake and enlighted. :lol:

but i'm still curious about how it all gonna develops in the near future and how many more players gonna "awake" and join this madness of unexplainable issues and heavy car bug or mouse input lag is killing me...

peace and logic out.
I think you should at least try your pc at locations where its "known" to not be faulty/heavy maybe a friend or a relatives plays trying to explain your problem and troubleshoot as well from there.. if you have not tried I mean, on the way I think you will maybe not hit the jackpot at first but someones house is in general better then an apartment cause of all of the other shit that might be on the power-line from all the others involved in that building.

I hope to see you return one day with a fix. Otherwise have a great summer and check back after it

MetalingusMike
Posts: 7
Joined: 06 Jun 2021, 01:17

Re: Interference causing stutter and bad controls - My theory and a potential solution

Post by MetalingusMike » 26 Jun 2021, 21:42

This is just an update to my thread.

I have a Furman Elite 16 PF E1 with new power cables to connect both my PS4 and monitor to.

Long story short, it did not solve the imprecise controls/lag issue. It did make some difference, I felt as though the video banks which had ultrasonic filtering made a small difference to my controls - similar in perceptual feeling to me turning off my iPhone. But the difference was not large.

This sort of makes sense, as most well designed electronic products have decently sufficient power supplies that are fairly well regulated. The PS4 Pro and my Acer monitor must have decent power supplies, though obviously not perfect as I did feel a small difference (though nothing is perfect).

I have not yet tried adding ferrites to cables or the passive USB filter, but this leads me to believe power isn't much of an issue - the main issue is interference. The fact that I can feel difference with my iPhone turned on/off or the same with other wireless devices points towards this. Now sure, I don't think the power in my apartment is the absolute best as I seem to notice my controls becoming worse when I use kitchen devices like an air fryer. But I believe the largest cause must be wireless interference, as at the end of the day signal integrity/quality can be boiled down for SNR (Signal-to-Noise-Ratio). If there's too much noise, even if the signal is transmitted over a wire it will become weak to the receiver and error correction/dropouts will occur which may not be measurable with traditional methods.

If I'm noticing my controls feeling better with my iPhone off as an example, but it not feeling perfect, that means I'm making a dent towards lowering the noise floor slightly but the overall noise is still too high in the environment. I'm maybe shaving a few dB off, reducing the noise just a little bit for me to notice but it's present enough to cause chronic signal errors that need to be constantly corrected. What would cause so much noise in my environment? Well I live in an apartment with neighbours surrounding me horizontally and vertically. I also live only about a mile away from a phone tower, so I may be doomed to face these issues for as long as I live here. Going with this logic, I bet people who live out in the country side very far from the busy city, with phone towers miles away, they probably have the lowest signal noise floor.

I will still try ferrites and the passive USB filter, though I imagine these will make small noticeable differences but not eliminate the problem for me. If you can get a phone signal in a car or a bus, shielding/ferrites isn't likely to block all interference, only reduce it a bit. The only potential solution in my mind outside of moving home is to build a Faraday cage for your gaming room and equipment.

What's extremely annoying to me is that there was a time period of about 3 weeks last year where I had no imprecise controls/input lag issues. Every game I played, all of them felt fast, fluid and precise. Especially Modern Warfare, I played on only a 4-4 sensitivity with Dynamic and I felt like a pro. My centring was perfect, movement was flawless, Aim Assist wasn't too strong/weak, it was consistent and helped guide my aim perfectly. I beat players that had way better stats than me, even PC players who gamed on much better systems than my PS4. Since then, it's being wildly inconsistent regardless of what settings or controls I use. That precise feeling and consistent Aim Assist I recognise when I watch top Warzone streamers. The way their game looks is how mine felt last year. Now I know that consistency and precision truly is key to becoming the best in most eSports. Unlike with physical sports where skill and health are the only factors in success, hardware plays a large role, much larger than most people understand into how successful you are in a particular eSport.

It doesn't matter how good your motor control is or how much much time you spend practicing, or even how much money you spend on hardware - if your setup does not feel both precise and consistent, you'll never get close to the top. You'll forever be fighting against the hardware. You cannot build proper muscle memory if your controls change in perceptual sensitivity on a constant basis. You cannot rely on good motor control if your controls feel sluggish. If you're in an environment full of interference causing constant signal errors, you're just fucked. Games that revolve around mechanical skill like FPS games and racers are not fun at all in these conditions. Stick any eSport pro in an environment full of interference and they will perform far below their skill level. Us normal people who are experiencing these interference issues, our skill ceiling is being severely limited by our poor environment.

This is honestly very depressing to me as video games are my escape, FPS games specifically. These interference issues ruin the fun and add yet another form of stress to my life.

MetalingusMike
Posts: 7
Joined: 06 Jun 2021, 01:17

Re: Interference causing stutter and bad controls - My theory and a potential solution

Post by MetalingusMike » 26 Jun 2021, 21:53

Rallaz wrote:
16 Jun 2021, 08:00
I wanna confirm that these Wurth Elektronik 829993STICK do NOT work to our belief. It doesnt make things lighter on heavy locations
USB 3.0 EMC stick development board with integrated ESD protection and EMI filter
It could also I'm testing it wrong but I simply plugged in the USB cable to it and plugged it in to the PC, but things feel exactly the same and my macro as well.
That's really disappointing. I'm still going to buy one for myself, but thank you for getting back to us. Knowing this and my experience with my Furman Elite, only adding ferrites to cables and/or extra power filtration devices could improve the situation a bit more. Though like others have theorised, the problem likely isn't power or most household devices - it's likely airborne interference that's just too strong to combat. Maybe moving home or building a Faraday cage is the only solution.

Post Reply