AMD Freesync and Nvidia GPU Input Lag

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ZetaAlo
Posts: 25
Joined: 10 Dec 2021, 21:18

Re: AMD Freesync and Nvidia GPU Input Lag

Post by ZetaAlo » 13 Jan 2022, 20:40

jorimt wrote:
13 Jan 2022, 20:30
ZetaAlo wrote:
13 Jan 2022, 20:06
Like I can literally feel the mouse being "dragged" back or slowed down over links, or any or most clickable UI elements. Like it's being "caught" and the sensitivity of my mouse is dropping significantly momentarily when I mouse over them, then reverting back to normal. It sounds weird as fuck, but it's true. Even in games. AND any app with hardware acceleration makes the mouse feel like it has VSYNC enabled
I understand, that's why you need to start ruling things out. Again, trying to replicate it on another TV you already own is an easy start.

I also asked you in my last comment if there was ever a point when you didn't have this issue?
I explained my history in my first reply to your post explaining Infinite being DX12

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jorimt
Posts: 2481
Joined: 04 Nov 2016, 10:44
Location: USA

Re: AMD Freesync and Nvidia GPU Input Lag

Post by jorimt » 13 Jan 2022, 20:59

ZetaAlo wrote:
13 Jan 2022, 20:40
I explained my history in my first reply to your post explaining Infinite being DX12
I see that now, thanks. This is the second time I missed one of your posts because you replied twice in a row, and I usually go straight to the latest reply.
ZetaAlo wrote:
13 Jan 2022, 20:03
You say that a monitor shouldn't cause any of the issues I'm experiencing, but I posted several threads of people experiencing the exact same thing, and G Sync/Free Sync/multi monitor (combined with certain variations of hardware accel) seemed to be the combining factor.
Which is why I asked if you experienced the same issue on your TV. Beyond possibly have to move your PC into range of your TV or visa-versa, this is an extremely easy test that should help determine whether it's your monitor or something else.

Also, do you use more than 100% scaling in the Windows settings or enlarged your mouse cursor beyond default?
ZetaAlo wrote:
13 Jan 2022, 20:03
One was even related to an Integrated Intel GPU and Intel Support themselves said it was a IGPU driver bug interaction with G sync/multi monitors.
Does your CPU have integrated graphics, and if it does, are they enabled (I.E. are they selectable in the NVCP or Windows graphic settings)? I always keep mine disabled (in the bios) to avoid any secondary GPU issues like this.
ZetaAlo wrote:
13 Jan 2022, 20:03
It's not hard to believe. Considering G Sync and VRR tech lowers your refresh rate to your FPS etc. It wouldn't be hard to see how Drivers and Graphical UI Elements could react "badly" with certain VRR technology, just play a game with G Sync and you can feel your mouse slow down significantly when your fps drops.

Makes perfect since some UI/GPU/G Sync interaction could cause the "lag". It's reproducible practically Everytime. Any clickable UI elements cause my mouse to slow down/lag. I can even see the pathing/movement of the mouse change. If I have hardware accel activated the entire application has that floaty lag.
Sorry to sound like a broken record, but again, you won't start ruling anything out until you try your PC on another display.

As for G-SYNC mouse lag at very low refresh rates (which I've experienced countless times), it is very distinct, and G-SYNC can only physically lower the refresh rate of the display globally, not just one tiny area of the screen independently of the rest (but since it stops as soon as you aren't hovering over the affected element, it would be difficult to verify whether it's an OS-level animation/interface issue, or the refresh rate lowering due to VRR).

Whether your issue stems from a driver or firmware interaction with VRR and hardware acceleration remains to be seen.
ZetaAlo wrote:
13 Jan 2022, 20:03
I got into Serious PC gaming about 5 years ago. Now that I think about it I never really noticed anything bad at the beginning. I don't recall, at least.
That certainly makes it harder to get a baseline then.

All I can say is I've never personally experienced any of my mice slowing (like controller aim-assist) on hyperlinks and UI elements on any of my displays (or systems), including on my G-SYNC Compatible OLED. Almost sounds like there's a rogue accessibility setting active at the OS-level, and/or you're using touch pad software on your mouse (not that you are).
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

ZetaAlo
Posts: 25
Joined: 10 Dec 2021, 21:18

Re: AMD Freesync and Nvidia GPU Input Lag

Post by ZetaAlo » 14 Jan 2022, 23:04

jorimt wrote:
13 Jan 2022, 20:59
ZetaAlo wrote:
13 Jan 2022, 20:40
I explained my history in my first reply to your post explaining Infinite being DX12
I see that now, thanks. This is the second time I missed one of your posts because you replied twice in a row, and I usually go straight to the latest reply.
ZetaAlo wrote:
13 Jan 2022, 20:03
You say that a monitor shouldn't cause any of the issues I'm experiencing, but I posted several threads of people experiencing the exact same thing, and G Sync/Free Sync/multi monitor (combined with certain variations of hardware accel) seemed to be the combining factor.
Which is why I asked if you experienced the same issue on your TV. Beyond possibly have to move your PC into range of your TV or visa-versa, this is an extremely easy test that should help determine whether it's your monitor or something else.

Also, do you use more than 100% scaling in the Windows settings or enlarged your mouse cursor beyond default?
ZetaAlo wrote:
13 Jan 2022, 20:03
One was even related to an Integrated Intel GPU and Intel Support themselves said it was a IGPU driver bug interaction with G sync/multi monitors.
Does your CPU have integrated graphics, and if it does, are they enabled (I.E. are they selectable in the NVCP or Windows graphic settings)? I always keep mine disabled (in the bios) to avoid any secondary GPU issues like this.
ZetaAlo wrote:
13 Jan 2022, 20:03
It's not hard to believe. Considering G Sync and VRR tech lowers your refresh rate to your FPS etc. It wouldn't be hard to see how Drivers and Graphical UI Elements could react "badly" with certain VRR technology, just play a game with G Sync and you can feel your mouse slow down significantly when your fps drops.

Makes perfect since some UI/GPU/G Sync interaction could cause the "lag". It's reproducible practically Everytime. Any clickable UI elements cause my mouse to slow down/lag. I can even see the pathing/movement of the mouse change. If I have hardware accel activated the entire application has that floaty lag.
Sorry to sound like a broken record, but again, you won't start ruling anything out until you try your PC on another display.

As for G-SYNC mouse lag at very low refresh rates (which I've experienced countless times), it is very distinct, and G-SYNC can only physically lower the refresh rate of the display globally, not just one tiny area of the screen independently of the rest (but since it stops as soon as you aren't hovering over the affected element, it would be difficult to verify whether it's an OS-level animation/interface issue, or the refresh rate lowering due to VRR).

Whether your issue stems from a driver or firmware interaction with VRR and hardware acceleration remains to be seen.
ZetaAlo wrote:
13 Jan 2022, 20:03
I got into Serious PC gaming about 5 years ago. Now that I think about it I never really noticed anything bad at the beginning. I don't recall, at least.
That certainly makes it harder to get a baseline then.

All I can say is I've never personally experienced any of my mice slowing (like controller aim-assist) on hyperlinks and UI elements on any of my displays (or systems), including on my G-SYNC Compatible OLED. Almost sounds like there's a rogue accessibility setting active at the OS-level, and/or you're using touch pad software on your mouse (not that you are).
Huh? G Sync can be set to work in windowed/full screen applications. So again, it can easily effect one area of the screen and not another. It's pretty straight forward to me. If g sync/vrr lowers your monitors refresh rate to match your fps, which is what it feels like Is happening to my mouse, maybe its some kind of monitor/GPU/G sync interaction. "Dropping my HZ" over certain UI elements in combo with hardware accel.

I had IGPU disabled but I renabled it to see if it helped the issue, it didn't.

I have to get a pretty long HDMI cord, its not practical to dismount my QLED from the wall atm, so I'll report back later. I'm using 125% scaling. It happens at 100% too. Using a larger cursor aswell, happened with the default.

And yeah like I said 90% of my Gaming has been done on FreeSync Monitors, except the verry beginning which I don't recall having any issues at the start.

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jorimt
Posts: 2481
Joined: 04 Nov 2016, 10:44
Location: USA

Re: AMD Freesync and Nvidia GPU Input Lag

Post by jorimt » 14 Jan 2022, 23:38

ZetaAlo wrote:
14 Jan 2022, 23:04
Huh? G Sync can be set to work in windowed/full screen applications. So again, it can easily effect one area of the screen and not another. It's pretty straight forward to me.
When that happens, an app triggers it when it's focused, but then the entire screen is also refreshing slower, not just the focused window, is what I'm saying. It's physically impossible for the scanout (what G-SYNC manipulates) to work any other way.
ZetaAlo wrote:
14 Jan 2022, 23:04
I had IGPU disabled but I renabled it to see if it helped the issue, it didn't.
If you had it disabled, then you're fine. Enabled would be the issue.
ZetaAlo wrote:
14 Jan 2022, 23:04
I have to get a pretty long HDMI cord, its not practical to dismount my QLED from the wall atm, so I'll report back later.
Temporarily moving the PC tower to the TV is another option, since extra long HDMI cables may introduce more issues (no signal, for instance) if you don't buy an expensive one meant for such usage (not worth it for this test, in my opinion).
ZetaAlo wrote:
14 Jan 2022, 23:04
I'm using 125% scaling. It happens at 100% too. Using a larger cursor aswell, happened with the default.
Did you restart the computer after reverting to 100% scaling and reducing the mouse cursor size to default? Because that is usually required for them to fully apply, at least for scaling (not that it's guaranteed to work; the majority of what I recommend probably won't work; just ruling things out).
(jorimt: /jor-uhm-tee/)
Author: Blur Busters "G-SYNC 101" Series

Displays: ASUS PG27AQN, LG 48CX VR: Beyond, Quest 3, Reverb G2, Index OS: Windows 11 Pro Case: Fractal Design Torrent PSU: Seasonic PRIME TX-1000 MB: ASUS Z790 Hero CPU: Intel i9-13900k w/Noctua NH-U12A GPU: GIGABYTE RTX 4090 GAMING OC RAM: 32GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 DDR5 6400MHz CL32 SSDs: 2TB WD_BLACK SN850 (OS), 4TB WD_BLACK SN850X (Games) Keyboards: Wooting 60HE, Logitech G915 TKL Mice: Razer Viper Mini SE, Razer Viper 8kHz Sound: Creative Sound Blaster Katana V2 (speakers/amp/DAC), AFUL Performer 8 (IEMs)

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