Rant/Education/Latency/Tips

Everything about latency. Tips, testing methods, mouse lag, display lag, game engine lag, network lag, whole input lag chain, VSYNC OFF vs VSYNC ON, and more! Input Lag Articles on Blur Busters.
slaver01
Posts: 89
Joined: 21 Sep 2020, 01:48

Re: Rant/Education/Latency/Tips

Post by slaver01 » 17 Sep 2021, 07:20

I have tried both on and off. I didn't notice any difference. I don't know what to leave .. on or off

I only have these two entries:
SB Clock Spread Spectrum
SB Clock Spread Spectrum Option

aerin
Posts: 17
Joined: 24 Jul 2021, 02:22

Re: Rant/Education/Latency/Tips

Post by aerin » 18 Sep 2021, 14:45

Eonds wrote:
16 Sep 2021, 06:29
Latency:

Not all latency is perceptually the same
System latency is highly complex and variable when you don't lock down all variables.
Almost every part of your system has some sort of power saving feature(s) affecting latency including your OS.
A lot of power saving features can't be conventionally disabled.
Mobile GPU's (laptop/console GPU's) have massive latency penalties due to TBDR (Tile-based deferred rendering).
Laptops are just awful, don't use them if you care about latency.

There's all sorts of waiting/idling/timing events that happen which affect latency.
If you've ever reversed any drivers like nvlddkm & dxgkrnl you can see a bunch of settings for power states, power management & other latency related settings.

There's many buffers on your system that hurt latency at the expense of higher FPS.
FPS isn't a useful metric for measuring latency, the only relevant metric in terms of FPS is how close 0.1% lows are to your average.
Latency is more important than a small FPS increase in most cases.
Variable voltages/frequencies/power state switching causes latency penalties. (set fixed frequencies & voltages, Don't use PBO, or intel's ITBM/Speed step/shift).

Drivers should always be stripped & reversed so you can optimize the latency.
Most keyboards have terrible latency & so do mice. (Don't fully trust any latency measurements from RTINGS/other reviewers for many reasons including but not limited to, Non optimized benches, better versions of products sent to them, they don't use scopes or probes, they have power saving features on.

Most latency benchmarks should be taken with a grain of salt and you should be able to estimate the latency of the product by the hardware it harbors + take into account the standard deviation of multiple different reviewers tests and you'll have a general idea.
Non mobile gpu's still have many power saving features & other scams that increase FPS at the expense of latency in different areas.
modern AMD GPU's (5000 series & even below) are much easier cards to tune/disable/enable settings and typically have lower latency by default compared to Nvidia GPU's (GTX 10 series /RTX 20/30series).


Some RGB is very very noisy. my k65 mini's rgb on full brightness gets picked up by my mic. Avoid things that cause interference if you can, using DC instead of PWM for example. Anything above 58C on most components causing issues like micro throttling, power saving features, & clock gating + more. Disable all RGB.

There's many many many tweaks you can do on your OS, but at the end of the day windows is awful & needs to be replaced. Set all useless processes to low priority, security processes, DWM, & kill your explorer before playing via task manager. It can be re opened via task manager (Alt + tab to get back into game & out of game when you kill the explorer). How would you start the explorer back up? This way, CTRL + ALT + DELETE, Task manager, File > Run new task > explorer.exe .


I can list 1000 tweaks here but that's just obnoxious. Just because it's new hardware, that doesn't mean it has lower latency than older hardware. Don't fall for FPS scams (5-10 fps differences in benchmarks when comparing a CPU/GPU). Many tweaks are kept guarded/gate kept simply because "we" don't want everyone to use it as it gives "us" an advantage. Many athletes do this IRL with routines, drugs, equipment etc. Believe it or not many pro's get their PC's tweaked by people like "us". It's actually very popular for pros to get their pc's optimized in rocket league/Fortnite/Warzone/Apex Legends etc. I thought I would just shed some light.

With all that being said some people exponentially benefit from latency reduction. It's not linear for everyone and a lot of it's mental.
If you're an average/above average player don't expect a latency to make you a high level player. Generally speaking lowering nearly anyone's latency is better than not. Latency affects people's hand eye coordination differently. Wireless mice lag + low polling rate, don't trust the results, they'll be different for everyone depending on battery life, interference, etc.

NVIDIA sort of came out claiming to care about latency but won't actually let you change a bunch of power saving features, and other tricks that hurt latency on their GPU's. You can't really change GPU VRAM timings either. Don't trust the companies either, they want your money not your opinions or test results. They often manipulate people & that's how the game goes. Same with displays, keyboards, mice, audio peripherals, controllers, consoles, laptops, etc. AMD is much more trustworthy than NVIDIA, but still be skeptical.

Certain builds of windows have different implementations of game mode that can cause stuttering depending on the power plan being used & other factors. Disable game mode, and even HAGS has micro stuttering even though it lowers latency. A lot of games are unoptimized garbage because the devs are awful and don't deserve their jobs (Fortnite/Cod/Apex). Most games have shit servers with low tick rates affecting everyone and most notably high level players. Use native resolution/refresh rate otherwise expect higher latency/lower quality (if you're using an LCD). Stop worrying about your FPS counters, ping & the aesthetics if it's affecting your gameplay negatively.

Hardware: New doesn't = better latency, Tighter timings > slight increase in frequency with RAM. More RAM sticks doesn't = better latency or FPS. All 144hz LCD's are bad (my harsh opinion). Don't cheap out on hardware/peripherals, save your money and buy high quality/low latency components and you won't have to replace/regret it. Thanks for coming to my ted talk. Yes interference is very real and extremely common and varies in severity. Stop looking for god fixes for your mental issues/hardware desync. The only fix is properly optimizing your setup to the max. Like the chief recommended, if you're convinced it's dirty power, buy a high end battery/wait to play until the AM, or use filters for your outlets and use cable shielding.


OPTIMIZE YOUR BIOS AND TRY SPREAD SPECTRUM SETTINGS BEFORE YOU SPEND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS ON EQUIPMENT.

everything u said in here is either from me or from melody cord, why cant you just go and learn something inconcventional instead of just reposting everything from us xd

Eonds
Posts: 262
Joined: 29 Oct 2020, 10:34

Re: Rant/Education/Latency/Tips

Post by Eonds » 19 Sep 2021, 03:57

aerin wrote:
18 Sep 2021, 14:45
Eonds wrote:
16 Sep 2021, 06:29
Latency:

Not all latency is perceptually the same
System latency is highly complex and variable when you don't lock down all variables.
Almost every part of your system has some sort of power saving feature(s) affecting latency including your OS.
A lot of power saving features can't be conventionally disabled.
Mobile GPU's (laptop/console GPU's) have massive latency penalties due to TBDR (Tile-based deferred rendering).
Laptops are just awful, don't use them if you care about latency.

There's all sorts of waiting/idling/timing events that happen which affect latency.
If you've ever reversed any drivers like nvlddkm & dxgkrnl you can see a bunch of settings for power states, power management & other latency related settings.

There's many buffers on your system that hurt latency at the expense of higher FPS.
FPS isn't a useful metric for measuring latency, the only relevant metric in terms of FPS is how close 0.1% lows are to your average.
Latency is more important than a small FPS increase in most cases.
Variable voltages/frequencies/power state switching causes latency penalties. (set fixed frequencies & voltages, Don't use PBO, or intel's ITBM/Speed step/shift).

Drivers should always be stripped & reversed so you can optimize the latency.
Most keyboards have terrible latency & so do mice. (Don't fully trust any latency measurements from RTINGS/other reviewers for many reasons including but not limited to, Non optimized benches, better versions of products sent to them, they don't use scopes or probes, they have power saving features on.

Most latency benchmarks should be taken with a grain of salt and you should be able to estimate the latency of the product by the hardware it harbors + take into account the standard deviation of multiple different reviewers tests and you'll have a general idea.
Non mobile gpu's still have many power saving features & other scams that increase FPS at the expense of latency in different areas.
modern AMD GPU's (5000 series & even below) are much easier cards to tune/disable/enable settings and typically have lower latency by default compared to Nvidia GPU's (GTX 10 series /RTX 20/30series).


Some RGB is very very noisy. my k65 mini's rgb on full brightness gets picked up by my mic. Avoid things that cause interference if you can, using DC instead of PWM for example. Anything above 58C on most components causing issues like micro throttling, power saving features, & clock gating + more. Disable all RGB.

There's many many many tweaks you can do on your OS, but at the end of the day windows is awful & needs to be replaced. Set all useless processes to low priority, security processes, DWM, & kill your explorer before playing via task manager. It can be re opened via task manager (Alt + tab to get back into game & out of game when you kill the explorer). How would you start the explorer back up? This way, CTRL + ALT + DELETE, Task manager, File > Run new task > explorer.exe .


I can list 1000 tweaks here but that's just obnoxious. Just because it's new hardware, that doesn't mean it has lower latency than older hardware. Don't fall for FPS scams (5-10 fps differences in benchmarks when comparing a CPU/GPU). Many tweaks are kept guarded/gate kept simply because "we" don't want everyone to use it as it gives "us" an advantage. Many athletes do this IRL with routines, drugs, equipment etc. Believe it or not many pro's get their PC's tweaked by people like "us". It's actually very popular for pros to get their pc's optimized in rocket league/Fortnite/Warzone/Apex Legends etc. I thought I would just shed some light.

With all that being said some people exponentially benefit from latency reduction. It's not linear for everyone and a lot of it's mental.
If you're an average/above average player don't expect a latency to make you a high level player. Generally speaking lowering nearly anyone's latency is better than not. Latency affects people's hand eye coordination differently. Wireless mice lag + low polling rate, don't trust the results, they'll be different for everyone depending on battery life, interference, etc.

NVIDIA sort of came out claiming to care about latency but won't actually let you change a bunch of power saving features, and other tricks that hurt latency on their GPU's. You can't really change GPU VRAM timings either. Don't trust the companies either, they want your money not your opinions or test results. They often manipulate people & that's how the game goes. Same with displays, keyboards, mice, audio peripherals, controllers, consoles, laptops, etc. AMD is much more trustworthy than NVIDIA, but still be skeptical.

Certain builds of windows have different implementations of game mode that can cause stuttering depending on the power plan being used & other factors. Disable game mode, and even HAGS has micro stuttering even though it lowers latency. A lot of games are unoptimized garbage because the devs are awful and don't deserve their jobs (Fortnite/Cod/Apex). Most games have shit servers with low tick rates affecting everyone and most notably high level players. Use native resolution/refresh rate otherwise expect higher latency/lower quality (if you're using an LCD). Stop worrying about your FPS counters, ping & the aesthetics if it's affecting your gameplay negatively.

Hardware: New doesn't = better latency, Tighter timings > slight increase in frequency with RAM. More RAM sticks doesn't = better latency or FPS. All 144hz LCD's are bad (my harsh opinion). Don't cheap out on hardware/peripherals, save your money and buy high quality/low latency components and you won't have to replace/regret it. Thanks for coming to my ted talk. Yes interference is very real and extremely common and varies in severity. Stop looking for god fixes for your mental issues/hardware desync. The only fix is properly optimizing your setup to the max. Like the chief recommended, if you're convinced it's dirty power, buy a high end battery/wait to play until the AM, or use filters for your outlets and use cable shielding.


OPTIMIZE YOUR BIOS AND TRY SPREAD SPECTRUM SETTINGS BEFORE YOU SPEND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS ON EQUIPMENT.

everything u said in here is either from me or from melody cord, why cant you just go and learn something inconcventional instead of just reposting everything from us xd

What the fuck are you talking about LOL. I've been talking about this for a long time. LCD's are just bad imo for the highest level of play. Let's not argue on here, but you literally don't even know the basic functions of a computer. You also use backlight strobing + you're lagging on an improperly configured PC.

ujjwal15
Posts: 4
Joined: 20 Sep 2021, 05:27

Re: Rant/Education/Latency/Tips

Post by ujjwal15 » 20 Sep 2021, 05:29

Eonds wrote:
16 Sep 2021, 06:29
Latency:

Not all latency is perceptually the same
System latency is highly complex and variable when you don't lock down all variables.
Almost every part of your system has some sort of power saving feature(s) affecting latency including your OS.
A lot of power saving features can't be conventionally disabled.
Mobile GPU's (laptop/console GPU's) have massive latency penalties due to TBDR (Tile-based deferred rendering).
Laptops are just awful, don't use them if you care about latency.
How can i disable tile based rendering? I can't find any resources regarding this, I have a mobile 1070.

Eonds
Posts: 262
Joined: 29 Oct 2020, 10:34

Re: Rant/Education/Latency/Tips

Post by Eonds » 24 Sep 2021, 10:42

ujjwal15 wrote:
20 Sep 2021, 05:29
Eonds wrote:
16 Sep 2021, 06:29
Latency:

Not all latency is perceptually the same
System latency is highly complex and variable when you don't lock down all variables.
Almost every part of your system has some sort of power saving feature(s) affecting latency including your OS.
A lot of power saving features can't be conventionally disabled.
Mobile GPU's (laptop/console GPU's) have massive latency penalties due to TBDR (Tile-based deferred rendering).
Laptops are just awful, don't use them if you care about latency.
How can i disable tile based rendering? I can't find any resources regarding this, I have a mobile 1070.
I'm not sure how to do it for mobile gpu's + you'd probably want to keep it on unless u want to lose a bunch of fps + higher temps + battery life significantly shortened.

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