Microstutter, Hitching on new PC

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VenomLolo
Posts: 51
Joined: 04 Oct 2021, 08:44

Re: Microstutter, Hitching on new PC

Post by VenomLolo » 20 Oct 2021, 21:26

kokkatc wrote:
20 Oct 2021, 12:29
VenomLolo wrote:
19 Oct 2021, 23:09
So hop back in back4blood and felt no stutter but latency mon did this and also the latency spike inside the game was jumping from 7.1ms to 8.2ms and i believe this is a insta red flag right?

https://ibb.co/q0mSV8g

https://ibb.co/kKVSFxj

im uploading the images like this because for some reason im unable to upload them normally.

Im going back to ai optimized cores and voltage auto.
So most of a system's DPC latency comes from default power saving settings in your BIOS, then power savings in your OS, using good drivers, then setting all devices to MSI mode also in the OS. The results I see here tell me the system is not really optimized for low latency applications so there's probably still a lot of power saving mechanisms in play slowing you down. In my experience, updating your motherboards chipset drivers usually resolves the high CLASSPNP.SYS latency. The WDF file you see is your usb controller, so once again, update your motherboard's chipset drivers and make sure all of your devices are running in MSI mode. Google how to put your devices in MSI mode. There's a good utility out there called MSI MODE V2. After you download it, make sure to run the app as an administrator or it won't populate your devices. The important devices to put in MSI mode will be your GPU, Network, USB. You can put your soundcard in MSI mode but on some older soundcards, usually realtek, the sound may stop working in MSI mode. If that's the case, just put your sound back to default settings.

Also, if you give me your motherboard model name, I can look up the user manual and help you out with BIOS settings. You're probably missing some settings like speedstep, eist, etc. Some manufacturers call these settings different things.

In regards to the DPC latency results you see there, hitting above 200us is considered HIGH for realtime applications and gaming. Also, reaching 900us is exceptionally high and not ideal at all whatsoever. Just to give you a comparison, all of my systems after being optimized rarely hit over 50us idle and are usually in the 8-20us range, and might occasionally hit 80-100us on my DX driver (GPU). When running this test, close all unnecessary background apps so they don't interfere w/ the results.

Also, before just jumping into making changes to your system, read up on it. Get a relatively decent understanding of what you're doing rather than mindlessly trying things someone on a forum like myself is suggesting. :) I also recommend making a restore point before you make changes, so if you mess something up you can revert back.

Edit:

I see your motherboard now Asus Rog Strix Z490-F. Here's your manual: https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/L ... EM_WEB.pdf

In the manual under 'CPU Power Management Configuration,' disable: Intel Speedstep, Intel Speedshift Technology, Intel Turbo Max Technology 3.0, Turbo Mode, ALL C-STATES <-- Every single one disabled, Thermal Monitor. In regards to Turbo boost. Note: Some newer motherboards will force you to enable Turbo to OC your CPU, even if done manually. Using the motherboard's built in AUTO OC/Tuner feature is usually a bad idea. Better to do this manually and set a static clock w/ Intel chips.
In this first image Im sharing my Msinfo

https://ibb.co/MsgQNmY

On this second one my Msi mode settings
https://ibb.co/MN7s9RR

Here is latencymon running for 12 mins on idle on desktop
https://ibb.co/L8t24jt

Here is the drivers tab on idle for 12 mins
https://ibb.co/029JqtY

This one is idle in game
https://ibb.co/1mTn13N

Idle in game driver tab
https://ibb.co/ctX3QnK

This one I gamed for 5 minutes but died no stutters at all, a lot of action on screen, frames howered between 141 (locked) to 138 135 and no stutter was felt, latency howered between 7.1ms to 7.5 maybe 8ms.
https://ibb.co/tQ05T5n

Driver tab for 5 mins gaming no stutters and frame hovering between 141 and 138/135.
https://ibb.co/p2FfkhP

For some reason i didnt used any CpuZ or Gpuz or Hwinfo I just kinda stick to latencymon.
Now I will be following the other suggestions you gave me with the c states options on the bios and play again. will report back!

VenomLolo
Posts: 51
Joined: 04 Oct 2021, 08:44

Re: Microstutter, Hitching on new PC

Post by VenomLolo » 20 Oct 2021, 22:06

kokkatc wrote:
19 Oct 2021, 12:52
[

Intel Turbo Boost is essentially a power saving mechanism that runs your CPU at its baseclock for light workloads and increases to a higher clock for heavy workloads. This means your CPU clock is changing depending on load and can cause stuttering. It most definitely raises your system latency since your clock isn't static. You can test the differences by using Latency Monitor. W/ that said it wouldn't be a bad idea to test for stuttering w/ Turbo On vs Off. If you turn Turbo OFF however, you will lose overall performance since your CPU will now only run at say 3.8Ghz vs a potential 4.8Ghz. This is why a lot of people OC their CPU and set it to a static frequency, say 5Ghz for example. There's a lot of trial and error in this process so you have to be patient and willing to read up on what you're doing. If you want to OC your CPU, this is something you'll have to read up on. There's a lot of good guides out there to get you going.
So I disabled every Cstate including boost as you told me and this is the reading from latency mon on the same scenario of the 5 minutes gameplay

https://ibb.co/42svNP0

I noticed my cpu was as stock just as you told me but it appears if i tried to set it to 4700 or 4800 or 4900 it would stay at stock speeds, gamplay looked kinda like the same i was able to feel the video quality was not the same but the frametime was basically the same a little hover frorm 7.1 to 8.1 or 8.2 and framerate was stuck to 141 with little dip to 138 and i felt some kind of chopiness but nothing game breaking.

Then I went back into the bios and followed the first minutes of this video to set the cpu at 4.9

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGlvhNUIzJE&t=194s

with everything disabled I went back and enabled only turbo mode and here is what I get while playing.
https://ibb.co/KmNb4S7

https://ibb.co/DwZ8z2T

am i going back to square 1?

I will now try snappy driver to see if it helps.
All my windows drivers are up to "date" according to windows update and updater is paused.

kokkatc
Posts: 108
Joined: 23 Mar 2017, 13:49

Re: Microstutter, Hitching on new PC

Post by kokkatc » 21 Oct 2021, 00:31

VenomLolo wrote:
20 Oct 2021, 22:06
kokkatc wrote:
19 Oct 2021, 12:52
[

Intel Turbo Boost is essentially a power saving mechanism that runs your CPU at its baseclock for light workloads and increases to a higher clock for heavy workloads. This means your CPU clock is changing depending on load and can cause stuttering. It most definitely raises your system latency since your clock isn't static. You can test the differences by using Latency Monitor. W/ that said it wouldn't be a bad idea to test for stuttering w/ Turbo On vs Off. If you turn Turbo OFF however, you will lose overall performance since your CPU will now only run at say 3.8Ghz vs a potential 4.8Ghz. This is why a lot of people OC their CPU and set it to a static frequency, say 5Ghz for example. There's a lot of trial and error in this process so you have to be patient and willing to read up on what you're doing. If you want to OC your CPU, this is something you'll have to read up on. There's a lot of good guides out there to get you going.
So I disabled every Cstate including boost as you told me and this is the reading from latency mon on the same scenario of the 5 minutes gameplay

https://ibb.co/42svNP0

I noticed my cpu was as stock just as you told me but it appears if i tried to set it to 4700 or 4800 or 4900 it would stay at stock speeds, gamplay looked kinda like the same i was able to feel the video quality was not the same but the frametime was basically the same a little hover frorm 7.1 to 8.1 or 8.2 and framerate was stuck to 141 with little dip to 138 and i felt some kind of chopiness but nothing game breaking.

Then I went back into the bios and followed the first minutes of this video to set the cpu at 4.9

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGlvhNUIzJE&t=194s

with everything disabled I went back and enabled only turbo mode and here is what I get while playing.
https://ibb.co/KmNb4S7

https://ibb.co/DwZ8z2T

am i going back to square 1?

I will now try snappy driver to see if it helps.
All my windows drivers are up to "date" according to windows update and updater is paused.
You're making great progress! Your numbers looked solid before you reenabled turbo mode. If possible, leave turbo disabled and set a static clock, say 4.8Ghz to start and find a stable voltage. Somewhere in there it will ask you what mode you want your cpu in. Your options will be something like dynamic, static or fixed. You want static or fixed so your cpu automatically registers at 4.8Ghz and stays there, no turbo required. As I said before, newer boards may force you to enable turbo even to manually OC oaboce your base clock of 3.8Ghz, which is fine. Just don't enable multicore enhancement. You with me?

Edit:

Windows update is great for updating your chipset drivers, horrible for everything else like network/sound. Snappy driver installer will find an 'optimized' driver for all of your devices.

VenomLolo
Posts: 51
Joined: 04 Oct 2021, 08:44

Re: Microstutter, Hitching on new PC

Post by VenomLolo » 21 Oct 2021, 01:26

kokkatc wrote:
21 Oct 2021, 00:31
VenomLolo wrote:
20 Oct 2021, 22:06
kokkatc wrote:
19 Oct 2021, 12:52
[

Intel Turbo Boost is essentially a power saving mechanism that runs your CPU at its baseclock for light workloads and increases to a higher clock for heavy workloads. This means your CPU clock is changing depending on load and can cause stuttering. It most definitely raises your system latency since your clock isn't static. You can test the differences by using Latency Monitor. W/ that said it wouldn't be a bad idea to test for stuttering w/ Turbo On vs Off. If you turn Turbo OFF however, you will lose overall performance since your CPU will now only run at say 3.8Ghz vs a potential 4.8Ghz. This is why a lot of people OC their CPU and set it to a static frequency, say 5Ghz for example. There's a lot of trial and error in this process so you have to be patient and willing to read up on what you're doing. If you want to OC your CPU, this is something you'll have to read up on. There's a lot of good guides out there to get you going.
So I disabled every Cstate including boost as you told me and this is the reading from latency mon on the same scenario of the 5 minutes gameplay

https://ibb.co/42svNP0

I noticed my cpu was as stock just as you told me but it appears if i tried to set it to 4700 or 4800 or 4900 it would stay at stock speeds, gamplay looked kinda like the same i was able to feel the video quality was not the same but the frametime was basically the same a little hover frorm 7.1 to 8.1 or 8.2 and framerate was stuck to 141 with little dip to 138 and i felt some kind of chopiness but nothing game breaking.

Then I went back into the bios and followed the first minutes of this video to set the cpu at 4.9

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGlvhNUIzJE&t=194s

with everything disabled I went back and enabled only turbo mode and here is what I get while playing.
https://ibb.co/KmNb4S7

https://ibb.co/DwZ8z2T

am i going back to square 1?

I will now try snappy driver to see if it helps.
All my windows drivers are up to "date" according to windows update and updater is paused.
You're making great progress! Your numbers looked solid before you reenabled turbo mode. If possible, leave turbo disabled and set a static clock, say 4.8Ghz to start and find a stable voltage. Somewhere in there it will ask you what mode you want your cpu in. Your options will be something like dynamic, static or fixed. You want static or fixed so your cpu automatically registers at 4.8Ghz and stays there, no turbo required. As I said before, newer boards may force you to enable turbo even to manually OC oaboce your base clock of 3.8Ghz, which is fine. Just don't enable multicore enhancement. You with me?

Edit:

Windows update is great for updating your chipset drivers, horrible for everything else like network/sound. Snappy driver installer will find an 'optimized' driver for all of your devices.
It appears we are getting close to discover what it happening. I don't know exactly how to apply a static overclock to my cpu because I already tried setting the cpu core ratio to 47 for 4700mhz and it didnt boosted to that value even when setting the voltage to 1.35 as suggested on the video I linked on top, this is why I enabled turbo again to boost my clocks to 4700 or in this case I have them set to 4900. I downloaded some of the suggested drivers with snappy. I clicked on "this computer" because the application asked me if I wanted the complete index of drivers and download like 20gbs of driver packs and i strongly believe we dont need all that just want the ones that the computer really needs. Apparently they were found and installed. I had several drivers that were outdated one said Xeon something 1200 and i forgot to take note on the driver's name that needed to be installed for me to tell you sorry I forgot. I think I will be deleting rivatuner and just use latencymon because I'm going to continue being paranoid if I continue looking at the frametime. Multicore enhancement is disabled I'm with you ;) tomorrow I will continue some testing and post latest numbers and photos and will share how I am feeling the PC now. Thanks a lot again!

As of now

Intel Speedstep, Intel Speedshift Technology, Intel Turbo Max Technology 3.0 are all disabled.
Only turbo mode is on
All Core Ratio Limit set to 49 to lock my cpu at 4900mhz
CPU SviD support OFF
CPU load line calibration LEVEL4
Ring down Bin Enabled
Min cpu cache ratio 43
Max cpu cache ratio 43
BCLK aware adaptive voltage DISABLED
CPU core voltage 1.35


XMP profile 1 is selected

Sync all cores
Last edited by VenomLolo on 21 Oct 2021, 08:33, edited 1 time in total.

VenomLolo
Posts: 51
Joined: 04 Oct 2021, 08:44

Re: Microstutter, Hitching on new PC

Post by VenomLolo » 21 Oct 2021, 01:28

I wonder what ACPI.SYS is? But then I updated the driver's with snappy and this numbers went away.

VenomLolo
Posts: 51
Joined: 04 Oct 2021, 08:44

Re: Microstutter, Hitching on new PC

Post by VenomLolo » 21 Oct 2021, 08:36

Yes little by little the gameplay is feeling a lot better

As of now

Intel Speedstep, Intel Speedshift Technology, Intel Turbo Max Technology 3.0 are all disabled.
Only turbo mode is on
All Core Ratio Limit set to 49 to lock my cpu at 4900mhz
CPU SviD support OFF
CPU load line calibration LEVEL4
Ring down Bin Enabled
Min cpu cache ratio 43
Max cpu cache ratio 43
BCLK aware adaptive voltage DISABLED
CPU core voltage 1.35
XMP profile 1 is selected
Sync all cores
Snappy Driver updated a couple of drivers.
usb 3.0 front panel unplugged
Background apps off
Startup apps only rivatuner and nvidia settings nothing else not even microsoft defender.
Game mode on
Hardware-Accelerated GPU Scheduling ON
Variable refresh rate ON

kokkatc
Posts: 108
Joined: 23 Mar 2017, 13:49

Re: Microstutter, Hitching on new PC

Post by kokkatc » 21 Oct 2021, 14:33

VenomLolo wrote:
21 Oct 2021, 08:36
Yes little by little the gameplay is feeling a lot better

As of now

Intel Speedstep, Intel Speedshift Technology, Intel Turbo Max Technology 3.0 are all disabled.
Only turbo mode is on
All Core Ratio Limit set to 49 to lock my cpu at 4900mhz
CPU SviD support OFF
CPU load line calibration LEVEL4
Ring down Bin Enabled
Min cpu cache ratio 43
Max cpu cache ratio 43
BCLK aware adaptive voltage DISABLED
CPU core voltage 1.35
XMP profile 1 is selected
Sync all cores
Snappy Driver updated a couple of drivers.
usb 3.0 front panel unplugged
Background apps off
Startup apps only rivatuner and nvidia settings nothing else not even microsoft defender.
Game mode on
Hardware-Accelerated GPU Scheduling ON
Variable refresh rate ON
Nice.

W/ your board you'll likely have to keep 'Turbo Enabled' to OC above baseclock. My new board is like that too where in the past I could just disable it and OC w/ no problems.

How's your latency monitor readouts looking now?

Also, I'm a firm believer in lowering your system's timer resolution to .5ms using an app like ISLC. You simply click on 'Enable Custom Timer Resolution' and enter '.5' into the 'Wanted Timer Resolution Box' and click start. You leave the app running while you game so interrupts are fired off every .5ms rather than 1ms (Games usually default to 1ms). Upsides to this app is that it will improve responsiveness and smooth out your gameplay. Only downside really is that your system will run hotter and consume more power because it's working harder, so you can disable it when you're not gaming. Lowering your timer resolution will also improve your DPC latency as well. You can download that app here:
https://www.wagnardsoft.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1256

Note: Keep in mind that this is not a cure to stuttering. It merely improves overall system responsiveness. It will not fix existing stuttering.
Last edited by kokkatc on 21 Oct 2021, 14:38, edited 1 time in total.

kokkatc
Posts: 108
Joined: 23 Mar 2017, 13:49

Re: Microstutter, Hitching on new PC

Post by kokkatc » 21 Oct 2021, 14:34

VenomLolo wrote:
21 Oct 2021, 01:28
I wonder what ACPI.SYS is? But then I updated the driver's with snappy and this numbers went away.
I think I mentioned earlier that this one was usually resolved w/ updating your chipset drivers. Looks like Snappy Driver took care of that for you, awesome.

VenomLolo
Posts: 51
Joined: 04 Oct 2021, 08:44

Re: Microstutter, Hitching on new PC

Post by VenomLolo » 21 Oct 2021, 16:43

kokkatc wrote:
21 Oct 2021, 14:33
VenomLolo wrote:
21 Oct 2021, 08:36
Yes little by little the gameplay is feeling a lot better

As of now

Intel Speedstep, Intel Speedshift Technology, Intel Turbo Max Technology 3.0 are all disabled.
Only turbo mode is on
All Core Ratio Limit set to 49 to lock my cpu at 4900mhz
CPU SviD support OFF
CPU load line calibration LEVEL4
Ring down Bin Enabled
Min cpu cache ratio 43
Max cpu cache ratio 43
BCLK aware adaptive voltage DISABLED
CPU core voltage 1.35
XMP profile 1 is selected
Sync all cores
Snappy Driver updated a couple of drivers.
usb 3.0 front panel unplugged
Background apps off
Startup apps only rivatuner and nvidia settings nothing else not even microsoft defender.
Game mode on
Hardware-Accelerated GPU Scheduling ON
Variable refresh rate ON
Nice.

W/ your board you'll likely have to keep 'Turbo Enabled' to OC above baseclock. My new board is like that too where in the past I could just disable it and OC w/ no problems.

How's your latency monitor readouts looking now?

Also, I'm a firm believer in lowering your system's timer resolution to .5ms using an app like ISLC. You simply click on 'Enable Custom Timer Resolution' and enter '.5' into the 'Wanted Timer Resolution Box' and click start. You leave the app running while you game so interrupts are fired off every .5ms rather than 1ms (Games usually default to 1ms). Upsides to this app is that it will improve responsiveness and smooth out your gameplay. Only downside really is that your system will run hotter and consume more power because it's working harder, so you can disable it when you're not gaming. Lowering your timer resolution will also improve your DPC latency as well. You can download that app here:
https://www.wagnardsoft.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1256

Note: Keep in mind that this is not a cure to stuttering. It merely improves overall system responsiveness. It will not fix existing stuttering.

I played for 17 minutes and this are the numbers im getting, while using rivatuner to see the frametime it spiked a little but i tried not to pay attention to it. maybe this is the best my pc can go?
https://ibb.co/X3NSVbM

kokkatc
Posts: 108
Joined: 23 Mar 2017, 13:49

Re: Microstutter, Hitching on new PC

Post by kokkatc » 21 Oct 2021, 17:04

VenomLolo wrote:
21 Oct 2021, 16:43

I played for 17 minutes and this are the numbers im getting, while using rivatuner to see the frametime it spiked a little but i tried not to pay attention to it. maybe this is the best my pc can go?
https://ibb.co/X3NSVbM
If those are your numbers while gaming which puts tremendous load on your PC, you're in a good spot.

Honestly, there's a good deal more you can do. I just told you what I consider are some bare necessity things to take care to ensure you have a good baseline to work from. Looks like you got there!

If you're interested in lowering your DPC latency even further, you can adjust your interrupt affinity on your GPU and USB devices. Windows defaults mose device interrupt affinities to core 0 which is less than ideal. You can move specific devices to a different core spreading out the load which results in a higher performing lower latency machine. This is more of an advanced tweak/setting, but if you're interested I could point you in the right direction.

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