Microstutter, Hitching on new PC

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Selexore
Posts: 2
Joined: 17 Oct 2020, 20:45

Re: Microstutter, Hitching on new PC

Post by Selexore » 08 Oct 2021, 21:13

Dude I feel you man I’ve been having micro stutters for about a year . And I honestly can’t figure it out either . Changed all my parts etc I’ve tried everything in the book . I’ve googled checked all types of forums (saw someone say they fixed their issue by taking out front panel USB) tried every single trick in the book and honestly I just think it’s just games nowadays or drivers or windows I don’t think your hardware is faulty . I’ve tested mine just like you religiously and nothing . I think a lot of people perceive frametime spikes as lag . Or aren’t as sensitive to frametime spikes as you and I are . I wish their was a place you can check every games frametime . Because when u don’t see other peoples frametimes it’s hard to decipher if there’s something wrong or if it’s normal for the game . Especially harder when people perceive their games are running perfectly but in all honest don’t know anything about frametimes .

f0rce
Posts: 13
Joined: 03 Oct 2021, 10:16

Re: Microstutter, Hitching on new PC

Post by f0rce » 09 Oct 2021, 18:52

Maybe try to remove all overclocks and xmp profile and play with bios defaults. Start from there imo since I suspect you have an unstable system overclock and not enough experience to do so.

VenomLolo
Posts: 51
Joined: 04 Oct 2021, 08:44

Re: Microstutter, Hitching on new PC

Post by VenomLolo » 12 Oct 2021, 08:50

Selexore wrote:
08 Oct 2021, 21:13
Dude I feel you man I’ve been having micro stutters for about a year . And I honestly can’t figure it out either . Changed all my parts etc I’ve tried everything in the book . I’ve googled checked all types of forums (saw someone say they fixed their issue by taking out front panel USB) tried every single trick in the book and honestly I just think it’s just games nowadays or drivers or windows I don’t think your hardware is faulty . I’ve tested mine just like you religiously and nothing . I think a lot of people perceive frametime spikes as lag . Or aren’t as sensitive to frametime spikes as you and I are . I wish their was a place you can check every games frametime . Because when u don’t see other peoples frametimes it’s hard to decipher if there’s something wrong or if it’s normal for the game . Especially harder when people perceive their games are running perfectly but in all honest don’t know anything about frametimes .
Thank you for understanding my frustration it is really hard you know dumping this hard earned money to buy some decent hardware to play fluidly some games thats all I wanted because the immersion inside the game is everything for me, not even the eye candy itself is more important than playing fluidly without stutter. But just as you stated I have tried everything religiously, currently I have my front usb 3.0 panel unplugged but I see little to no difference in games like Alien Firetem elite, Well now i have a rtx 3080 to play cpu bound games like league of legends and valorant.. screw me right? Im also playing Splitgate and a couple of single player games and they appear to be somewhat smooth, Im trying to ignore it right now I have fully disabled the on screen display and just downloaded back4blood as soon as i run it im gonna set 141 max frames and low latency and max performance and that will be it for my settings, also im playing metroid dread on Yuzu and this runs flawlessly im kinda happy about that. I just want to make sure my system is set correctly in regards to the other comment.

VenomLolo
Posts: 51
Joined: 04 Oct 2021, 08:44

Re: Microstutter, Hitching on new PC

Post by VenomLolo » 12 Oct 2021, 08:58

f0rce wrote:
09 Oct 2021, 18:52
Maybe try to remove all overclocks and xmp profile and play with bios defaults. Start from there imo since I suspect you have an unstable system overclock and not enough experience to do so.
I have been thinking about this myself too, If my settings are correct? Because All my bios settings at stock only with xmp on and the CPU temp fluctuated a lot it was scary, somehow I set my cpu at 4.9mhz at 1.325V and max temp to 70° or 75° because i dont like my cpu getting that hot, I remember the cpu temps when starting the game was around 50° and suddenly jumped to 65 then 70 or 80 back to 60 and you get me, the jumps were really aggresive. I say somehow i managed to set this because as you stated im not this knowledgeable in this area and I "believe" i catched myself in the middle with the pc and bios setup(meaning i might luckily set something stable), but i could be wrong! I had tried cinebench and all furmark and prime 95 for a couple of minutes and while watching HWinfo neither individual cores nor the package gets hotter than 70° thats why im feeling positive about the bios settings, but im always open to the option to learn a little bit more! if you can provide me with a little bit more info about my combo i7 107000k and Asus Rog Z490F I would greatly appreciate it!

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Re: Microstutter, Hitching on new PC

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 12 Oct 2021, 13:17

Questions:

1. Are you using multiple monitors?
(Try a single monitor, primary monitor in full screen exclusive. Different-Hz multimonitor is especially problematic for microstutters)

2. What monitor model are you using? What refresh rate are you using?
(High frame rates and higher Hz are generally better for smoothness, but there are some exceptions that may require you to temporarily lower refresh rate for certain games)

3. What sync setting are you using? VSYNC ON, VSYNC OFF, G-SYNC, etc?
(Best for lowest stutter is the opposing "Monitor G-SYNC ON, and NVIDIA Control Panel = G-SYNC ON + VSYNC ON, and Game Settings = VSYNC OFF", combined with a framerate cap about ~3fps below max Hz)

4. Are you running background software? Have you tried rebooting with no system tray software?
RGB keyboard software sometimes are terrible (for some brands). Disable all that. Also, some malware scanners like Malwarebytes may need to be briefly disabled during games.

5. Do you see any "perfectly regular once a second" red spikes at www.testufo.com/animation-time-graph ?
It's a good debugging tool for background software that surge-executes at regular intervals

6. Have you ever done a clean Windows install?
Sometimes you need to raze everything, if you have never tried this before

7. Have you tested colder operation such as severely underclocking by 20%-25% below factory Hz?
Drastic, such as a 4.8 GHz CPU underclocked to 4 GHz or 3.6 GHz, all-cores, lock the frequency, don't let the frequency fluctuate, all cores to same unchanging frequency simultaneously. Random sudden upclocking/downclocking and thermal throttling can add stutters. Like the vibrations of a car gear-shifting speeds, sometimes locking the cores and all to a lower gear, creates a smoother running CPU if you're stutter-priority rather than framerate-priority. You may prefer a perfectly smooth lower framerate over a fluctuatey high framerate. Underclock EVERYTHING -- the GPU, the CPU, the memory -- to carpetbomb your troubleshoot faster. We can be surgical after that, but be drastic at the beginning of your troubleshoot! More Hz is not necessarily better for stutters!

8. Check unexpected causes such as microstutters caused by your mouse
If your microstuttering is continuous and perpetual, compare mouseturn versus keyboard strafe. The best mouse hardware/settings can mouseturn as smoothly as keyboard strafing. Try high-DPI high-poll low-sensitivity operation. If you can do more than 1000Hz, try 2000Hz, 4000Hz or 8000Hz poll rate, especially if you have a 240Hz+ monitor. Your mouseturns will be much smoother at all speeds, with less stuttering during mouseturns. High-DPI like 1600dpi and 3200dpi with newest sensors (3389,3399) is very good for Overwatch and Valorant, although older games like CS:GO sometimes go wonky

I will have more questions, but this will bootstrap a potential path to reducing stutters.
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VenomLolo
Posts: 51
Joined: 04 Oct 2021, 08:44

Re: Microstutter, Hitching on new PC

Post by VenomLolo » 13 Oct 2021, 13:13

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
12 Oct 2021, 13:17
Questions:

1. Are you using multiple monitors?
(Try a single monitor, primary monitor in full screen exclusive. Different-Hz multimonitor is especially problematic for microstutters)

2. What monitor model are you using? What refresh rate are you using?
(High frame rates and higher Hz are generally better for smoothness, but there are some exceptions that may require you to temporarily lower refresh rate for certain games)

3. What sync setting are you using? VSYNC ON, VSYNC OFF, G-SYNC, etc?
(Best for lowest stutter is the opposing "Monitor G-SYNC ON, and NVIDIA Control Panel = G-SYNC ON + VSYNC ON, and Game Settings = VSYNC OFF", combined with a framerate cap about ~3fps below max Hz)

4. Are you running background software? Have you tried rebooting with no system tray software?
RGB keyboard software sometimes are terrible (for some brands). Disable all that. Also, some malware scanners like Malwarebytes may need to be briefly disabled during games.

5. Do you see any "perfectly regular once a second" red spikes at www.testufo.com/animation-time-graph ?
It's a good debugging tool for background software that surge-executes at regular intervals

6. Have you ever done a clean Windows install?
Sometimes you need to raze everything, if you have never tried this before

7. Have you tested colder operation such as severely underclocking by 20%-25% below factory Hz?
Drastic, such as a 4.8 GHz CPU underclocked to 4 GHz or 3.6 GHz, all-cores, lock the frequency, don't let the frequency fluctuate, all cores to same unchanging frequency simultaneously. Random sudden upclocking/downclocking and thermal throttling can add stutters. Like the vibrations of a car gear-shifting speeds, sometimes locking the cores and all to a lower gear, creates a smoother running CPU if you're stutter-priority rather than framerate-priority. You may prefer a perfectly smooth lower framerate over a fluctuatey high framerate. Underclock EVERYTHING -- the GPU, the CPU, the memory -- to carpetbomb your troubleshoot faster. We can be surgical after that, but be drastic at the beginning of your troubleshoot! More Hz is not necessarily better for stutters!

8. Check unexpected causes such as microstutters caused by your mouse
If your microstuttering is continuous and perpetual, compare mouseturn versus keyboard strafe. The best mouse hardware/settings can mouseturn as smoothly as keyboard strafing. Try high-DPI high-poll low-sensitivity operation. If you can do more than 1000Hz, try 2000Hz, 4000Hz or 8000Hz poll rate, especially if you have a 240Hz+ monitor. Your mouseturns will be much smoother at all speeds, with less stuttering during mouseturns. High-DPI like 1600dpi and 3200dpi with newest sensors (3389,3399) is very good for Overwatch and Valorant, although older games like CS:GO sometimes go wonky

I will have more questions, but this will bootstrap a potential path to reducing stutters.
Thank you for your time.

*Yes, I´m currently using 1 monitor only.

*I use a Msi optix mag 321 CQR 1440p 144Hz monitor with freesync technology. I have also downloaded the driver update for the monitor from msi website which appears to be really old too, and selected it on device manager.

*V sync setting at Nvidia control panel is off, frames limited for most of my games (single player games) at 141frames for my 144hz monitor, Also Gsync compatible setting on, because monitor is compatible.

*I haved booted the PC without rgb software and no difference whatsoever, I currently have ICUE because keyboard, mouse, and fans are corsair, I also have my mouse set to 1000 polling rate and I changed this with ICUE i dont know how to change it outside of ICUE, I tried setting the polling to 500 but still stutters, Keyboard is also set to 1000hz, I also have armoury crate installed.

*Im currently at work and will test this link as soon as i arrive home www.testufo.com/animation-time-graph, but I have tried with my pc the one with the UFO and sometimes it says "potential browser stutter" turns yellow and then green again.

*As of now I have installed Windows 10 8 times and wiped both my drives as well with DISKPART cmd.

*I tested both my cpus the ryzen and the current intel at stock and didnt helped at all, with my intel while monitoring hwinfo I was able to see very aggresive fluctuations on temps having spikes all the way up to 80 back down to 70 then 60 and back 80 in less than a couple of second. So i disabled the Asus multi core enhancement and set volt to 1.325 for 4.9mhz and also set some temp limit on bios and now it gets hot around 70° maybe 73° while running cinebench!, While playing max temp always 65° with "stable 4.9 frequency"


*The stutters are not like in some sort of pattern. They appear to be completely random. But sometimes for example if I have my game frames set to 141 and it goes down to 135 maybe 130 for some reason the stutter is very noticeable, even though in graphic settings I have my option set for variable refresh monitor if im correct thats what it says, also in hardware accelerated graphic I have the .EXE of all my games selected and GPU high performance, As well as in every individual profile in my nvidia control panel prefer max performance.

Thank you so much for your reply chief! I was looking forward for you to comment, forgot to add that I also unplugged my front panel usb 3.0.

tlp
Posts: 13
Joined: 19 Jul 2019, 12:40

Re: Microstutter, Hitching on new PC

Post by tlp » 13 Oct 2021, 13:40

It looks like you brought the SATA Harddrive and DDR4 Ram modules from your old AMD build to your newer Intel build. As I said earlier, I've seen it repeated many times in different forums that broken SATA cables can apparently cause stutters, maybe try to disconnect the harddrive if you haven't? And if this fixes it, try a different slot and/or a different SATA cable.

Regarding your RAM, which slots are they plugged into? Your motherboards Manual might specify the "ideal" slots, it might even be printed on the motherboard itself. I understand that this might seem like something that wouldn't matter much, but I assure you, it can and probably does matter a lot. RAM is the opposite of fun.

Also, could you maybe tell us your ram kits exact model? If not, then simply the primary timings will suffice! It's usually something along the lines of 16-22-22-42 or 14-14-14-28. As a sidenote, overclocking either your rams frequency or "simply" tightening the timings(Primary, Tertiary and Subtimings) can grant you a considerable FPS boost in some(most?) CPU bound games. Heres a link to a very good resource on memory overclocking: https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHe ... 20Guide.md

On my 9900K for example, I had been running my kit simply by enabling the "XMP" at 3600Mbps 15-15-15-xx, with which I often saw my FPS dip low into the low end 200's in Overwatch. After I spent a non-trivial amount of time tightening the subs and tertiary timings, the FPS was more or less locked at 400. So it's well worth it if you can deal with stresstesting every single change you make for way too many hours...

And you should be aware that theres no guarantee that your ram will be stable at XMP, even if it's listed in your motherboards QVL list. Memory is... fickle. If you're unstable at XMP it does NOT mean that the memory itself is faulty. It might just dislike your CPU, motherboard, ambient temperature, looks or demeanor.

Regarding your BIOS settings.

On Intel I would recommend a static overclock over anything, their power saving features(C-States) has caused me nothing but pain, so I'd say you're on the right path there.

I wouldn't worry about CPU temperatures as long as you're not constantly well over 85-90C. It can take it.

There seems to be a BIOS update available for your motherboard as of 2021/08/03. If the motherboard name you provided in your original post is correct, then you can find the update here: https://rog.asus.com/motherboards/rog-s ... pdesk_bios Could help? Could also not help.

Hopefully something here helped you, I know how infuriating persistent stutters are!

VenomLolo
Posts: 51
Joined: 04 Oct 2021, 08:44

Re: Microstutter, Hitching on new PC

Post by VenomLolo » 13 Oct 2021, 17:36

tlp wrote:
13 Oct 2021, 13:40
It looks like you brought the SATA Harddrive and DDR4 Ram modules from your old AMD build to your newer Intel build. As I said earlier, I've seen it repeated many times in different forums that broken SATA cables can apparently cause stutters, maybe try to disconnect the harddrive if you haven't? And if this fixes it, try a different slot and/or a different SATA cable.

Regarding your RAM, which slots are they plugged into? Your motherboards Manual might specify the "ideal" slots, it might even be printed on the motherboard itself. I understand that this might seem like something that wouldn't matter much, but I assure you, it can and probably does matter a lot. RAM is the opposite of fun.

Also, could you maybe tell us your ram kits exact model? If not, then simply the primary timings will suffice! It's usually something along the lines of 16-22-22-42 or 14-14-14-28. As a sidenote, overclocking either your rams frequency or "simply" tightening the timings(Primary, Tertiary and Subtimings) can grant you a considerable FPS boost in some(most?) CPU bound games. Heres a link to a very good resource on memory overclocking: https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHe ... 20Guide.md

On my 9900K for example, I had been running my kit simply by enabling the "XMP" at 3600Mbps 15-15-15-xx, with which I often saw my FPS dip low into the low end 200's in Overwatch. After I spent a non-trivial amount of time tightening the subs and tertiary timings, the FPS was more or less locked at 400. So it's well worth it if you can deal with stresstesting every single change you make for way too many hours...

And you should be aware that theres no guarantee that your ram will be stable at XMP, even if it's listed in your motherboards QVL list. Memory is... fickle. If you're unstable at XMP it does NOT mean that the memory itself is faulty. It might just dislike your CPU, motherboard, ambient temperature, looks or demeanor.

Regarding your BIOS settings.

On Intel I would recommend a static overclock over anything, their power saving features(C-States) has caused me nothing but pain, so I'd say you're on the right path there.

I wouldn't worry about CPU temperatures as long as you're not constantly well over 85-90C. It can take it.

There seems to be a BIOS update available for your motherboard as of 2021/08/03. If the motherboard name you provided in your original post is correct, then you can find the update here: https://rog.asus.com/motherboards/rog-s ... pdesk_bios Could help? Could also not help.

Hopefully something here helped you, I know how infuriating persistent stutters are!
Thanks for all the tips!

*You are correct all the SATA cables are from my old build I have this cougar blazer case and in the back to hide the cables it is like a really small rectangle, for some reason that rectangle im unable to screw it back in place so i use some force and some cable ties in order for me to keep it close and to be able to close it with the back glass Im uncertain if i maybe applied too much force and damage cables?


*My rams are seated in A2 and B2 and this would be the exact model i bought :
{G.Skill Trident Z NEO Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin SDRAM (PC4-28800) DDR4-3600 CL18-22-22-42 1.35V Dual Channel Desktop Memory Model F4-3600C18D-16GTZN}

*I forgot to say that I have tried moving my games to my SSD NVME its a SK Hynix 500gb, and unplugging the HDD and still suffered from stutters while playing Psychonauts 2. It doesnt matter if I set my graphics as low as hell I will always experience this! Normally I set my shadows to medium or low on all games, lightning and post process all mid low as well.

*I want to clarify that it doesnt stutter every second but it happens on random intervals killing the immersion for me.

*Im going to check that video link as I have never tried to enter the rabit hole that is ram speed tightening and stuff, I really wish to learn but I got carried away by memtest stating that my rams didnt had an issue. But having this gaming pc I just really wish that I could jump in and play some games not expecting a stutter, that would be awesome and as stated before I have battled this situation since february till the point of obession.

*Regarding the stability of the XMP sheesh i wouldnt know how to tell I just press task manager and upon clicking on memory it says its running at 3600 xD so i guess thats enough info for me.


*Yes C states are disabled! and some other stuff


*I truly appreciate you providing a link for the bios this is version 2301 I do have it installed but thanks a lot!

VenomLolo
Posts: 51
Joined: 04 Oct 2021, 08:44

Re: Microstutter, Hitching on new PC

Post by VenomLolo » 13 Oct 2021, 17:41

5. Do you see any "perfectly regular once a second" red spikes at www.testufo.com/animation-time-graph ?
It's a good debugging tool for background software that surge-executes at regular intervals


Chief, red spikes are only depicted on the graph if I come back from another tab, its perfectly centered green line, If I move the mouse left and right and click a lot it will have small rectangles in green.

VenomLolo
Posts: 51
Joined: 04 Oct 2021, 08:44

Re: Microstutter, Hitching on new PC

Post by VenomLolo » 14 Oct 2021, 02:16

So I arrived home today to play some back 4 blood with some of my friends. Before playing I noticed there was a driver update (496.13) stating it was an update for b4b downloaded it and started playing apparently everything was working correctly and I even tried setting Nvidia control panel vsync with capped frames. When I switched to valorant the game frame Time with uncapped frames was fluctuating from 5ms to 13ms and frames went all the way down to 120 from 200 220 my normal frames. Now I really don't know what to do. Tried splitgate and performance was below. So I rolled back to before I updated drivers and performance was still the same. I don't know what happened.

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