Microstutter, Hitching on new PC

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VenomLolo
Posts: 51
Joined: 04 Oct 2021, 08:44

Re: Microstutter, Hitching on new PC

Post by VenomLolo » 19 Oct 2021, 01:06

Eonds wrote:
18 Oct 2021, 22:49
Mugabi wrote:
18 Oct 2021, 20:38
Eonds wrote:
18 Oct 2021, 19:14
Mugabi wrote:
18 Oct 2021, 16:24
I used to have stutter but not now, i think i fixed it by messing with bios.
That's hilarious because that's what I've been saying, and if I recall correctly you argued with me about it. Now you finally listened? :lol:
I still have input lag hit reg issues and slowness in kboard n mouse
You put so much trust into your computer/game dev's lol. Most game servers barley operate @ 60 tick rates, and have shitty net code. On top of that, your pc is 100% not optimized for latency & i bet i could probably fix it for you. I almost like seeing how far people will go until they realize it's their own ignorance of computers.
Yeah I'm really ignorant when it comes to computers but for our luck you are here and I hope you can share some of your wisdom bro I just wanna play games without like that fear of waiting for a stutter I mean I have a pretty descent rig I believe.

kokkatc
Posts: 108
Joined: 23 Mar 2017, 13:49

Re: Microstutter, Hitching on new PC

Post by kokkatc » 19 Oct 2021, 12:52

VenomLolo wrote:
19 Oct 2021, 00:57
Thank you so much for answering me. Because the thread was left behind and in my fear that I'll never game the way im supposed to I continue digging a little bit more. As I said before I was using park control but then I landed on "fr33thy's" optimization video and was able to follow it not on point because for some reason some of the stuff he included there was not able to execute dunno why but i was able to install the bitsum on power plans and therefore I deleted park control from my apps (mostly because I believe I don't need the app now?) I have used latency monitor before and it's actually really weird sometimes I have red lines sometimes I don't. I gotta be honest I haven't used latency mon in a while because I don't wanna be letdown because I'm able to see what it indicates but unable to fix it because ACPI.sys wtf is that xd? Or maybe some.other type of driver causing issues but to be honest I have not felt anything yet since installing w10 again. and I appreciate the detailed reply you gave me. I will be walking through the steps you indicate to see if I'm able to eliminate stutters forever. I have some of those options on my bios disabled for example c states. Gotta take a look at the others. If I disabled the turbo boost would I be affecting performance? I'm pretty ignorant about computers I won't lie but I have learned a little while troubleshooting this PC it has been less than a year and I have changed the PC completely but the storage and memory. I confirm GPU is on msi mode. And I believe I will let advanced tweak be I'm completely out of my element there :v
Intel Turbo Boost is essentially a power saving mechanism that runs your CPU at its baseclock for light workloads and increases to a higher clock for heavy workloads. This means your CPU clock is changing depending on load and can cause stuttering. It most definitely raises your system latency since your clock isn't static. You can test the differences by using Latency Monitor. W/ that said it wouldn't be a bad idea to test for stuttering w/ Turbo On vs Off. If you turn Turbo OFF however, you will lose overall performance since your CPU will now only run at say 3.8Ghz vs a potential 4.8Ghz. This is why a lot of people OC their CPU and set it to a static frequency, say 5Ghz for example. There's a lot of trial and error in this process so you have to be patient and willing to read up on what you're doing. If you want to OC your CPU, this is something you'll have to read up on. There's a lot of good guides out there to get you going.

Also, if you're opening up Latency Monitor and you're seeing spikes and a lot of red, you most likely have faulty drivers attributing to this. To make this as easy as possible, I recommend using snappy driver installer. This program is one of the best in finding optimized drivers for your system. Download, install, let it scan your system, then update each driver it recommends w/ the most optimized one. It won't recommend drivers w/ known issues. This is a good baseline to aim for. After you did this, run latency monitor again and see if you're still getting any spikes or a lot of red. If you are, you still likely have a faulty driver somewhere. When this happens to me, what I do is disable devices in device manager one by one and retest to see if that was the offender. Once again, in my experience, network and sound are the biggest offenders with faulty drivers. You simply open up device manager, right click on your network nic for example and click on disable. Then you run latency monitor again to see if the spikes stop. (NDIS = Network, dxgkrnl / nvlddmkm = GPU, WDF = USB, etc). There's also a 'Drivers' tab in latency monitor which shows which drivers are giving you the highest DPC latency /execution time. You have to systematically eliminate each driver as a potential culprit until you find the main offender. This is only part of the puzzle mind you, there are a lot of other potential possibilities that could be causing your stuttering, so be patient and remain diligent. I'm confident you'll figure it out if you keep at it.

Also, just a sidenote... Make sure you're not confusing network related issues w/ system related issues. Make sure your network is solid and stable. Make sure your router isn't suffering from bufferbloat from being overloaded. This is usually easily fixed by enabling your router's QOS. You should also considering pinging some servers to make sure your ping is stable. You can do a quick test by opening your command prompt and entering: <ping google.com -t> Only enter what's in the brackets. If your latency is jumping all over the place, then you have some network issues most likely. You can also test for bufferbloat by running a speedtest and simultaneously pinging a server (ping google.com -t). If you're ping spikes constantly during the speedtest, you likely have bufferbloat.

Eonds
Posts: 262
Joined: 29 Oct 2020, 10:34

Re: Microstutter, Hitching on new PC

Post by Eonds » 19 Oct 2021, 14:50

VenomLolo wrote:
19 Oct 2021, 01:06
Eonds wrote:
18 Oct 2021, 22:49
Mugabi wrote:
18 Oct 2021, 20:38
Eonds wrote:
18 Oct 2021, 19:14


That's hilarious because that's what I've been saying, and if I recall correctly you argued with me about it. Now you finally listened? :lol:
I still have input lag hit reg issues and slowness in kboard n mouse
You put so much trust into your computer/game dev's lol. Most game servers barley operate @ 60 tick rates, and have shitty net code. On top of that, your pc is 100% not optimized for latency & i bet i could probably fix it for you. I almost like seeing how far people will go until they realize it's their own ignorance of computers.
Yeah I'm really ignorant when it comes to computers but for our luck you are here and I hope you can share some of your wisdom bro I just wanna play games without like that fear of waiting for a stutter I mean I have a pretty descent rig I believe.
Contact me through twitter, if you click on my blurbusters profile you can go to my twitter there. Just dm me your discord and ill help you

I totally understand the "fear or anticipation of a stutter". I use to have really bad internet like a few weeks ago and weird issues with my computer. The stuttering still persists even at stock settings so right now my new motherboard comes in tomorrow & i'll be upgrading my power supply as well, RAM & cooling.

VenomLolo
Posts: 51
Joined: 04 Oct 2021, 08:44

Re: Microstutter, Hitching on new PC

Post by VenomLolo » 19 Oct 2021, 21:08

Eonds wrote:
19 Oct 2021, 14:50
VenomLolo wrote:
19 Oct 2021, 01:06
Eonds wrote:
18 Oct 2021, 22:49
Mugabi wrote:
18 Oct 2021, 20:38

I still have input lag hit reg issues and slowness in kboard n mouse
You put so much trust into your computer/game dev's lol. Most game servers barley operate @ 60 tick rates, and have shitty net code. On top of that, your pc is 100% not optimized for latency & i bet i could probably fix it for you. I almost like seeing how far people will go until they realize it's their own ignorance of computers.
Yeah I'm really ignorant when it comes to computers but for our luck you are here and I hope you can share some of your wisdom bro I just wanna play games without like that fear of waiting for a stutter I mean I have a pretty descent rig I believe.
Contact me through twitter, if you click on my blurbusters profile you can go to my twitter there. Just dm me your discord and ill help you

I totally understand the "fear or anticipation of a stutter". I use to have really bad internet like a few weeks ago and weird issues with my computer. The stuttering still persists even at stock settings so right now my new motherboard comes in tomorrow & i'll be upgrading my power supply as well, RAM & cooling.
Will do!

VenomLolo
Posts: 51
Joined: 04 Oct 2021, 08:44

Re: Microstutter, Hitching on new PC

Post by VenomLolo » 19 Oct 2021, 21:58

kokkatc wrote:
19 Oct 2021, 12:52
VenomLolo wrote:
19 Oct 2021, 00:57
Thank you so much for answering me. Because the thread was left behind and in my fear that I'll never game the way im supposed to I continue digging a little bit more. As I said before I was using park control but then I landed on "fr33thy's" optimization video and was able to follow it not on point because for some reason some of the stuff he included there was not able to execute dunno why but i was able to install the bitsum on power plans and therefore I deleted park control from my apps (mostly because I believe I don't need the app now?) I have used latency monitor before and it's actually really weird sometimes I have red lines sometimes I don't. I gotta be honest I haven't used latency mon in a while because I don't wanna be letdown because I'm able to see what it indicates but unable to fix it because ACPI.sys wtf is that xd? Or maybe some.other type of driver causing issues but to be honest I have not felt anything yet since installing w10 again. and I appreciate the detailed reply you gave me. I will be walking through the steps you indicate to see if I'm able to eliminate stutters forever. I have some of those options on my bios disabled for example c states. Gotta take a look at the others. If I disabled the turbo boost would I be affecting performance? I'm pretty ignorant about computers I won't lie but I have learned a little while troubleshooting this PC it has been less than a year and I have changed the PC completely but the storage and memory. I confirm GPU is on msi mode. And I believe I will let advanced tweak be I'm completely out of my element there :v
Intel Turbo Boost is essentially a power saving mechanism that runs your CPU at its baseclock for light workloads and increases to a higher clock for heavy workloads. This means your CPU clock is changing depending on load and can cause stuttering. It most definitely raises your system latency since your clock isn't static. You can test the differences by using Latency Monitor. W/ that said it wouldn't be a bad idea to test for stuttering w/ Turbo On vs Off. If you turn Turbo OFF however, you will lose overall performance since your CPU will now only run at say 3.8Ghz vs a potential 4.8Ghz. This is why a lot of people OC their CPU and set it to a static frequency, say 5Ghz for example. There's a lot of trial and error in this process so you have to be patient and willing to read up on what you're doing. If you want to OC your CPU, this is something you'll have to read up on. There's a lot of good guides out there to get you going.

Also, if you're opening up Latency Monitor and you're seeing spikes and a lot of red, you most likely have faulty drivers attributing to this. To make this as easy as possible, I recommend using snappy driver installer. This program is one of the best in finding optimized drivers for your system. Download, install, let it scan your system, then update each driver it recommends w/ the most optimized one. It won't recommend drivers w/ known issues. This is a good baseline to aim for. After you did this, run latency monitor again and see if you're still getting any spikes or a lot of red. If you are, you still likely have a faulty driver somewhere. When this happens to me, what I do is disable devices in device manager one by one and retest to see if that was the offender. Once again, in my experience, network and sound are the biggest offenders with faulty drivers. You simply open up device manager, right click on your network nic for example and click on disable. Then you run latency monitor again to see if the spikes stop. (NDIS = Network, dxgkrnl / nvlddmkm = GPU, WDF = USB, etc). There's also a 'Drivers' tab in latency monitor which shows which drivers are giving you the highest DPC latency /execution time. You have to systematically eliminate each driver as a potential culprit until you find the main offender. This is only part of the puzzle mind you, there are a lot of other potential possibilities that could be causing your stuttering, so be patient and remain diligent. I'm confident you'll figure it out if you keep at it.

Also, just a sidenote... Make sure you're not confusing network related issues w/ system related issues. Make sure your network is solid and stable. Make sure your router isn't suffering from bufferbloat from being overloaded. This is usually easily fixed by enabling your router's QOS. You should also considering pinging some servers to make sure your ping is stable. You can do a quick test by opening your command prompt and entering: <ping google.com -t> Only enter what's in the brackets. If your latency is jumping all over the place, then you have some network issues most likely. You can also test for bufferbloat by running a speedtest and simultaneously pinging a server (ping google.com -t). If you're ping spikes constantly during the speedtest, you likely have bufferbloat.
This one "dxgkrnl / nvlddmkm" it's the most common I have on latencymon but appears as green

VenomLolo
Posts: 51
Joined: 04 Oct 2021, 08:44

Re: Microstutter, Hitching on new PC

Post by VenomLolo » 19 Oct 2021, 22:57

kokkatc wrote:
19 Oct 2021, 12:52
VenomLolo wrote:
19 Oct 2021, 00:57
Thank you so much for answering me. Because the thread was left behind and in my fear that I'll never game the way im supposed to I continue digging a little bit more. As I said before I was using park control but then I landed on "fr33thy's" optimization video and was able to follow it not on point because for some reason some of the stuff he included there was not able to execute dunno why but i was able to install the bitsum on power plans and therefore I deleted park control from my apps (mostly because I believe I don't need the app now?) I have used latency monitor before and it's actually really weird sometimes I have red lines sometimes I don't. I gotta be honest I haven't used latency mon in a while because I don't wanna be letdown because I'm able to see what it indicates but unable to fix it because ACPI.sys wtf is that xd? Or maybe some.other type of driver causing issues but to be honest I have not felt anything yet since installing w10 again. and I appreciate the detailed reply you gave me. I will be walking through the steps you indicate to see if I'm able to eliminate stutters forever. I have some of those options on my bios disabled for example c states. Gotta take a look at the others. If I disabled the turbo boost would I be affecting performance? I'm pretty ignorant about computers I won't lie but I have learned a little while troubleshooting this PC it has been less than a year and I have changed the PC completely but the storage and memory. I confirm GPU is on msi mode. And I believe I will let advanced tweak be I'm completely out of my element there :v
Intel Turbo Boost is essentially a power saving mechanism that runs your CPU at its baseclock for light workloads and increases to a higher clock for heavy workloads. This means your CPU clock is changing depending on load and can cause stuttering. It most definitely raises your system latency since your clock isn't static. You can test the differences by using Latency Monitor. W/ that said it wouldn't be a bad idea to test for stuttering w/ Turbo On vs Off. If you turn Turbo OFF however, you will lose overall performance since your CPU will now only run at say 3.8Ghz vs a potential 4.8Ghz. This is why a lot of people OC their CPU and set it to a static frequency, say 5Ghz for example. There's a lot of trial and error in this process so you have to be patient and willing to read up on what you're doing. If you want to OC your CPU, this is something you'll have to read up on. There's a lot of good guides out there to get you going.

Also, if you're opening up Latency Monitor and you're seeing spikes and a lot of red, you most likely have faulty drivers attributing to this. To make this as easy as possible, I recommend using snappy driver installer. This program is one of the best in finding optimized drivers for your system. Download, install, let it scan your system, then update each driver it recommends w/ the most optimized one. It won't recommend drivers w/ known issues. This is a good baseline to aim for. After you did this, run latency monitor again and see if you're still getting any spikes or a lot of red. If you are, you still likely have a faulty driver somewhere. When this happens to me, what I do is disable devices in device manager one by one and retest to see if that was the offender. Once again, in my experience, network and sound are the biggest offenders with faulty drivers. You simply open up device manager, right click on your network nic for example and click on disable. Then you run latency monitor again to see if the spikes stop. (NDIS = Network, dxgkrnl / nvlddmkm = GPU, WDF = USB, etc). There's also a 'Drivers' tab in latency monitor which shows which drivers are giving you the highest DPC latency /execution time. You have to systematically eliminate each driver as a potential culprit until you find the main offender. This is only part of the puzzle mind you, there are a lot of other potential possibilities that could be causing your stuttering, so be patient and remain diligent. I'm confident you'll figure it out if you keep at it.

Also, just a sidenote... Make sure you're not confusing network related issues w/ system related issues. Make sure your network is solid and stable. Make sure your router isn't suffering from bufferbloat from being overloaded. This is usually easily fixed by enabling your router's QOS. You should also considering pinging some servers to make sure your ping is stable. You can do a quick test by opening your command prompt and entering: <ping google.com -t> Only enter what's in the brackets. If your latency is jumping all over the place, then you have some network issues most likely. You can also test for bufferbloat by running a speedtest and simultaneously pinging a server (ping google.com -t). If you're ping spikes constantly during the speedtest, you likely have bufferbloat.
I wanted to add that it appears that i have set my kinda OC on my Cpu, before disabling this options you suggested to disable (c state and intel turbo boost and thermal monitor) It seems my frequency is set to 4.7 and my voltage is at 1.314 on CPUZ but i recall setting on my bios 1.325 all cores sync, i just changed it from ai optimized? Hopefully it will be stable and with a very little fluctuation from 4700 to 4698 and sometimes it goes a little up to 4701.03mhz if this is fluctuating this little is this considered unstable?

Image

Image

and also a small dip in voltage apparently. I dont know if this has to be static and dont fluctuate or is it ok for it to move a little up and down. if not then im changing my stuff back to ai optimized cores and the voltage back to normal.


VenomLolo
Posts: 51
Joined: 04 Oct 2021, 08:44

Re: Microstutter, Hitching on new PC

Post by VenomLolo » 19 Oct 2021, 23:09

So hop back in back4blood and felt no stutter but latency mon did this and also the latency spike inside the game was jumping from 7.1ms to 8.2ms and i believe this is a insta red flag right?

https://ibb.co/q0mSV8g

https://ibb.co/kKVSFxj

im uploading the images like this because for some reason im unable to upload them normally.

Im going back to ai optimized cores and voltage auto.

kokkatc
Posts: 108
Joined: 23 Mar 2017, 13:49

Re: Microstutter, Hitching on new PC

Post by kokkatc » 20 Oct 2021, 12:29

VenomLolo wrote:
19 Oct 2021, 23:09
So hop back in back4blood and felt no stutter but latency mon did this and also the latency spike inside the game was jumping from 7.1ms to 8.2ms and i believe this is a insta red flag right?

https://ibb.co/q0mSV8g

https://ibb.co/kKVSFxj

im uploading the images like this because for some reason im unable to upload them normally.

Im going back to ai optimized cores and voltage auto.
So most of a system's DPC latency comes from default power saving settings in your BIOS, then power savings in your OS, using good drivers, then setting all devices to MSI mode also in the OS. The results I see here tell me the system is not really optimized for low latency applications so there's probably still a lot of power saving mechanisms in play slowing you down. In my experience, updating your motherboards chipset drivers usually resolves the high CLASSPNP.SYS latency. The WDF file you see is your usb controller, so once again, update your motherboard's chipset drivers and make sure all of your devices are running in MSI mode. Google how to put your devices in MSI mode. There's a good utility out there called MSI MODE V2. After you download it, make sure to run the app as an administrator or it won't populate your devices. The important devices to put in MSI mode will be your GPU, Network, USB. You can put your soundcard in MSI mode but on some older soundcards, usually realtek, the sound may stop working in MSI mode. If that's the case, just put your sound back to default settings.

Also, if you give me your motherboard model name, I can look up the user manual and help you out with BIOS settings. You're probably missing some settings like speedstep, eist, etc. Some manufacturers call these settings different things.

In regards to the DPC latency results you see there, hitting above 200us is considered HIGH for realtime applications and gaming. Also, reaching 900us is exceptionally high and not ideal at all whatsoever. Just to give you a comparison, all of my systems after being optimized rarely hit over 50us idle and are usually in the 8-20us range, and might occasionally hit 80-100us on my DX driver (GPU). When running this test, close all unnecessary background apps so they don't interfere w/ the results.

Also, before just jumping into making changes to your system, read up on it. Get a relatively decent understanding of what you're doing rather than mindlessly trying things someone on a forum like myself is suggesting. :) I also recommend making a restore point before you make changes, so if you mess something up you can revert back.

Edit:

I see your motherboard now Asus Rog Strix Z490-F. Here's your manual: https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/L ... EM_WEB.pdf

In the manual under 'CPU Power Management Configuration,' disable: Intel Speedstep, Intel Speedshift Technology, Intel Turbo Max Technology 3.0, Turbo Mode, ALL C-STATES <-- Every single one disabled, Thermal Monitor. In regards to Turbo boost. Note: Some newer motherboards will force you to enable Turbo to OC your CPU, even if done manually. Using the motherboard's built in AUTO OC/Tuner feature is usually a bad idea. Better to do this manually and set a static clock w/ Intel chips.

VenomLolo
Posts: 51
Joined: 04 Oct 2021, 08:44

Re: Microstutter, Hitching on new PC

Post by VenomLolo » 20 Oct 2021, 19:42

kokkatc wrote:
20 Oct 2021, 12:29
VenomLolo wrote:
19 Oct 2021, 23:09
So hop back in back4blood and felt no stutter but latency mon did this and also the latency spike inside the game was jumping from 7.1ms to 8.2ms and i believe this is a insta red flag right?

https://ibb.co/q0mSV8g

https://ibb.co/kKVSFxj

im uploading the images like this because for some reason im unable to upload them normally.

Im going back to ai optimized cores and voltage auto.
So most of a system's DPC latency comes from default power saving settings in your BIOS, then power savings in your OS, using good drivers, then setting all devices to MSI mode also in the OS. The results I see here tell me the system is not really optimized for low latency applications so there's probably still a lot of power saving mechanisms in play slowing you down. In my experience, updating your motherboards chipset drivers usually resolves the high CLASSPNP.SYS latency. The WDF file you see is your usb controller, so once again, update your motherboard's chipset drivers and make sure all of your devices are running in MSI mode. Google how to put your devices in MSI mode. There's a good utility out there called MSI MODE V2. After you download it, make sure to run the app as an administrator or it won't populate your devices. The important devices to put in MSI mode will be your GPU, Network, USB. You can put your soundcard in MSI mode but on some older soundcards, usually realtek, the sound may stop working in MSI mode. If that's the case, just put your sound back to default settings.

Also, if you give me your motherboard model name, I can look up the user manual and help you out with BIOS settings. You're probably missing some settings like speedstep, eist, etc. Some manufacturers call these settings different things.

In regards to the DPC latency results you see there, hitting above 200us is considered HIGH for realtime applications and gaming. Also, reaching 900us is exceptionally high and not ideal at all whatsoever. Just to give you a comparison, all of my systems after being optimized rarely hit over 50us idle and are usually in the 8-20us range, and might occasionally hit 80-100us on my DX driver (GPU). When running this test, close all unnecessary background apps so they don't interfere w/ the results.

Also, before just jumping into making changes to your system, read up on it. Get a relatively decent understanding of what you're doing rather than mindlessly trying things someone on a forum like myself is suggesting. :) I also recommend making a restore point before you make changes, so if you mess something up you can revert back.

Edit:

I see your motherboard now Asus Rog Strix Z490-F. Here's your manual: https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/L ... EM_WEB.pdf

In the manual under 'CPU Power Management Configuration,' disable: Intel Speedstep, Intel Speedshift Technology, Intel Turbo Max Technology 3.0, Turbo Mode, ALL C-STATES <-- Every single one disabled, Thermal Monitor. In regards to Turbo boost. Note: Some newer motherboards will force you to enable Turbo to OC your CPU, even if done manually. Using the motherboard's built in AUTO OC/Tuner feature is usually a bad idea. Better to do this manually and set a static clock w/ Intel chips.
Thanks again for the reply! I currently have the latest motherboard bios for this motherboard 2301 the latest one on the website. I also set my GPU on msi mode but i did it with fr33thy's file that I downloaded and for some reason some of the files won't open when trying to launch them so it launched the Msi and i confirmed my GPU on msi mode and when trying to launch again it gave me an error so I will be downloading that app standalone exe and try and set also my network and USB. I wanted to say that I also have my front panel USB 3.0 unplugged this is one of the many fixes I have tried. This dpc results spiked when I was launching the game. Like when clicking the shortcut and the game loads from steam etc. This is when the bars went all the way up but in green! Not in red. All background apps are off and startup apps are to the minimum only like 3 apps starts with the system. I will record the normal latency of my system without a game (idle) and then j will launch b4b and record the latency again and will be sharing the post before taking the options you indicate on my bios! I will keep you posted thanks so much for giving me all this advices!

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