Pretty sure fixed my lag for real with intel

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DPRTMELR
Posts: 165
Joined: 12 Apr 2022, 13:42

Re: Pretty sure fixed my lag for real with intel

Post by DPRTMELR » 07 May 2022, 14:04

Thatweirdinputlag wrote:
07 May 2022, 03:57
DPRTMELR wrote:
06 May 2022, 23:07
VCCSA/IO cannot be too high, or too low. but then they are also scaled a bit based on your cpu volts. So if you do cpu first then ram, bad time. If you do ram, then cpu also bad time. You gotta lock in your cpu at something easy like 43x, and lock in the target core volt you plan on using, finish rams, wrap up cpu overclock and minor volt adjustments then.
I'm sorry but that is not true! Those Voltages scale mostly based on your RAM Frequency, not CPU voltage! Those are separate voltage rails, adjusting any of them separately will not effect the voltage of the others.

They do yes, but cpu voltage does have impact on iosa at least on 9-10th gen. Try doing heavy ram first, reset bios, then do something like 50 51x on the cpu. If you try to use both oc at the same time something will be unstable.

And I don't mean just passing tm5 either, you gotta linx it to see if you are actually stable after tm5 passes. This is what people are probably experiencing right now thinking their oc is solid when its not, causing minor issues. They would occt cpu for an hour and tm5 for 2 more thinking they are set.
Most adults need 7-8 hours of sleep each night. - US FDA

Thatweirdinputlag
Posts: 305
Joined: 27 Aug 2021, 14:09

Re: Pretty sure fixed my lag for real with intel

Post by Thatweirdinputlag » 07 May 2022, 18:35

DPRTMELR wrote:
07 May 2022, 14:04
Thatweirdinputlag wrote:
07 May 2022, 03:57
DPRTMELR wrote:
06 May 2022, 23:07
VCCSA/IO cannot be too high, or too low. but then they are also scaled a bit based on your cpu volts. So if you do cpu first then ram, bad time. If you do ram, then cpu also bad time. You gotta lock in your cpu at something easy like 43x, and lock in the target core volt you plan on using, finish rams, wrap up cpu overclock and minor volt adjustments then.
I'm sorry but that is not true! Those Voltages scale mostly based on your RAM Frequency, not CPU voltage! Those are separate voltage rails, adjusting any of them separately will not effect the voltage of the others.

They do yes, but cpu voltage does have impact on iosa at least on 9-10th gen. Try doing heavy ram first, reset bios, then do something like 50 51x on the cpu. If you try to use both oc at the same time something will be unstable.

And I don't mean just passing tm5 either, you gotta linx it to see if you are actually stable after tm5 passes. This is what people are probably experiencing right now thinking their oc is solid when its not, causing minor issues. They would occt cpu for an hour and tm5 for 2 more thinking they are set.
I am currently on 9th gen, and I don't think I ever experienced that. Every Board identifies the CPU installed in it and perform its boosts and clocks accordingly, not a single motherboard I have had underclocks the CPU by default to avoid stability issues. CPU will always be running at its rated speed but the ram is not, until you enable its XMP profile.

Based on your hypothesis, every person that just goes into the bios to set XMP will experience stability issues, since the CPU will already be running at its speed, and not at 4.3, and that is just not true.
Rog Strix Z79i - Intel 13700K - 4090 OC ROG Strix - 7200 Trident G.Skill - 1TB SK Hynix Platinum P41 - 1000W ATX3.0 Asus Tuf - 34'' Odyssey OLED G8 - FinalMouse Tenz S/Pulsar Xlite V2 Mini - Wooting 60HE - Sennheiser HD 560s - Shure SM7b - GoXLR Mini

DPRTMELR
Posts: 165
Joined: 12 Apr 2022, 13:42

Re: Pretty sure fixed my lag for real with intel

Post by DPRTMELR » 08 May 2022, 06:21

Thatweirdinputlag wrote:
07 May 2022, 18:35
DPRTMELR wrote:
07 May 2022, 14:04
Thatweirdinputlag wrote:
07 May 2022, 03:57
DPRTMELR wrote:
06 May 2022, 23:07
VCCSA/IO cannot be too high, or too low. but then they are also scaled a bit based on your cpu volts. So if you do cpu first then ram, bad time. If you do ram, then cpu also bad time. You gotta lock in your cpu at something easy like 43x, and lock in the target core volt you plan on using, finish rams, wrap up cpu overclock and minor volt adjustments then.
I'm sorry but that is not true! Those Voltages scale mostly based on your RAM Frequency, not CPU voltage! Those are separate voltage rails, adjusting any of them separately will not effect the voltage of the others.

They do yes, but cpu voltage does have impact on iosa at least on 9-10th gen. Try doing heavy ram first, reset bios, then do something like 50 51x on the cpu. If you try to use both oc at the same time something will be unstable.

And I don't mean just passing tm5 either, you gotta linx it to see if you are actually stable after tm5 passes. This is what people are probably experiencing right now thinking their oc is solid when its not, causing minor issues. They would occt cpu for an hour and tm5 for 2 more thinking they are set.
I am currently on 9th gen, and I don't think I ever experienced that. Every Board identifies the CPU installed in it and perform its boosts and clocks accordingly, not a single motherboard I have had underclocks the CPU by default to avoid stability issues. CPU will always be running at its rated speed but the ram is not, until you enable its XMP profile.
Point of that is to feed it extra vcore that you know you are gonna end up using, not necessarily having it locked in 44x

Based on your hypothesis, every person that just goes into the bios to set XMP will experience stability issues, since the CPU will already be running at its speed, and not at 4.3, and that is just not true.
If you do that then cpu is already over fed with auto and thus no issues. Try linx on your system, There's no way the residuals gonna line up because it's not stable if you undervolted cpu to stable and then ram on top of that or vice versa.
Most adults need 7-8 hours of sleep each night. - US FDA

SeekNDstroy
Posts: 21
Joined: 09 May 2022, 01:46

Re: Pretty sure fixed my lag for real with intel

Post by SeekNDstroy » 09 May 2022, 02:08

Thatweirdinputlag wrote:
05 May 2022, 17:50
3xii3,

I want you to try something out, it needs a bit of trial and error but its not hard.. When you change VCSSA or VCCIO to an equivalent of +-150-200mv your motherboard resets and turns off, then it turns on again, so it doesn't do a fast restart since it needs to retrain the memory with the new values. What you might've experienced is a RAM training problem that even my ASUS Z390 has, and that restart in specific got you a good training. but will go away when the system power recycles and the memory is trained again. So what we will try to do now, is to see what is the best marginal values that you can have, and possibly lock them in so it doesn't do a different training everytime.

1- Set both your VCCIO and VCCSA to 1.3V as a starting point "this value is a safe value for everyday use".

2- Find the DMI Voltage in your "tweaker's paradise" probably, and set it to 1.25V "also safe and helps with ram stability".

3- Go to your DRAM timing control and scroll down until you see MRC FAST BOOT, disable it for now "this will make the motherboard train your ram on every restart".

4- Go Back up to DRAM Training Algorithms, Disable "SenseAMP offset training", enable "Round Trip Latency", Disable "Turn Around Timing Training". Now Reboot.

5- Go back into Bios - DRAM Timing Control - DRAM RTL IOL "Not sure of the name, it should be above or below DRAM training algorithms". Go all the way down to "CHA IO_Latency_Offset & CHB IO_Latency_Offset", they might be set to 21 by default "Asus standard". Start increasing each one by +1. and reboot. You can probably start at 24 and go up to 25 or 26 afterwards.

6- Go back to that window and keep a track on the following values as you do the reboots after increasing the above mentioned values:

DRAM RTL CHA DIM1 Rank0 - Value
DRAM RTL CHB DIM1 Rank0 - Value
DRAM IOL CHA DIM1 Rank0 - Value
DRAM IOL CHB DIM1 Rank0 - Value

The values will keep going down as you increase the latency offset, until your system stops posting then you know you hit the threshold. If your system does not post after rebooting it means its failing to train the ram, hold your power button for 6 seconds to shut it down, and then press it again to start it up. It will boot with default RAM settings, its okay, you can go back and set the Latency Offset Values to the last bootable state, I'm assuming it will be either 25 or 26. 25 was the max for me!

P.S you can also set different Offsets for CHA and CHB. For example CHA =25 & CHB=26 and vise versa. Try to see which one will get the numbers close to each other the most!

Don't be confused of the values, they will be easy to spot because they are different from the rest "the rest have default values since I'm assuming you have only 2 ram sticks and the 2 other ram slots are empty".

For a reference, a good training for my ram would be as follows: "This is what i've been using for 3 months now"

DRAM RTL CHA DIM1 Rank0 - 59
DRAM RTL CHB DIM1 Rank0 - 58
DRAM IOL CHA DIM1 Rank0 - 2
DRAM IOL CHB DIM1 Rank0 - 1

The numbers in general are said to be best if they are equal or within +-1 apart from each other.

A bad training that my motherboard did on numerous occasions was as follows: "one of the bad trainings that I spotted"

DRAM RTL CHA DIM1 Rank0 - 69
DRAM RTL CHB DIM1 Rank0 - 61
DRAM IOL CHA DIM1 Rank0 - 14
DRAM IOL CHB DIM1 Rank0 - 6

And that alone was causing me a lot of stutters and performance issues in general.

8- After you find the maximum that you can get the Latency offset values to go up to, save your values into your phone, do not lock them in yet, continue to windows and do your normal things, gaming or whatever. See how it goes, if everything is good and dandy, Then reboot your pc, go back to your bios, check the values if they changed after the restart. If they did, then change them back to whatever you saved on your phone by locking them in the box saying "Auto" in front of them. Now go back and Enable "MRC Fast Boot" to stop your motherboard from changing that value again by training on different ones. That's it!

If you experience any problems, you can always go back and lower the Latency Offset values as to be a bit on the safer side. Remember to Disable "MRC Fast Boot" so the motherboard can retrain the ram on the new values. You can lock the values in and still force your motherboard to train on every boot, but in general, if your reboot straight after a heavy gaming session, a hot ram might be hard to train on those values! Thats why its better to just Enable MRC Fast Boot when you're done with tuning!

This is a slight shot in the dark, but in general, I've experienced the same issue before. And what triggered my memory to remember is the fact that you altered your VCCIO from 1.4 back to 1.1. I hope it helps regardless!

Let me know if you need anything else, cheers!
Hello,
My spec
Cpu- i5-11400,
Ram- Thermaltek toughram 8gbx2 -3200hz ,
Motherboard- Gigabyte b560m aorus elite with latest bios,
Gpu- Aorus rx 580-8gb with latest official driver ,
PSU- Corsair CV 650w.
Windows 10-most probably 21h1.
.
Can i follow your instructions here as mine is a locked cpu , assuming you are talking here for an unlocked cpu with z*90 series mobo.
Or can you give some advice specifically for my cpu & gigabyte mobo?
If i dont enable xmp ,the SysAgnt volt stays near 1.05v but enabling xmp it goes over 1.3v last i checked(tinkering with this cause no boot 2 times & as im new to intel system & dont know about this setting, i left it @ auto). Also my cpu ran @around 1.10-1.13v 2/3 month ago, but recently i saw it maxed 1.212v(its the top VID in hwinfo though, while vcore was little low) . All bios volt, pll , memory set @auto.
Any advise? Thanks in Advance.

Thatweirdinputlag
Posts: 305
Joined: 27 Aug 2021, 14:09

Re: Pretty sure fixed my lag for real with intel

Post by Thatweirdinputlag » 09 May 2022, 04:40

1.3v on VCCSA and VCCIO is okay, BuildZoid which is a famous overclocking enthusiast describes these voltages and how high would be okay, as a matter of fact he places the VCCSA at 1.45v for a safe everyday use voltage. Problem with Computers is that literally every system is different, your friend might have exactly the same specs and can get away with 1.2v on SA & IO while you can't, thats why most of the times manufacturers tend to over feed certain voltages by a small margin to sustain stability.

As for VID and Vcore, even 1.2V is okay since llc kicks in to lower it down on heavy loads. You can try with different LLC and different VID to see where the sweet spot for your CPU is while testing your CPU for stability. IMO though it's really not needed for 11400.

As for the steps I mentioned, yes you can follow them! Just make sure of the naming schemes. Not all names will be the similar between gigabyte and asus, and not all settings might be available on your board.
Rog Strix Z79i - Intel 13700K - 4090 OC ROG Strix - 7200 Trident G.Skill - 1TB SK Hynix Platinum P41 - 1000W ATX3.0 Asus Tuf - 34'' Odyssey OLED G8 - FinalMouse Tenz S/Pulsar Xlite V2 Mini - Wooting 60HE - Sennheiser HD 560s - Shure SM7b - GoXLR Mini

SeekNDstroy
Posts: 21
Joined: 09 May 2022, 01:46

Re: Pretty sure fixed my lag for real with intel

Post by SeekNDstroy » 09 May 2022, 06:49

Thatweirdinputlag wrote:
09 May 2022, 04:40
1.3v on VCCSA and VCCIO is okay, BuildZoid which is a famous overclocking enthusiast describes these voltages and how high would be okay, as a matter of fact he places the VCCSA at 1.45v for a safe everyday use voltage. Problem with Computers is that literally every system is different, your friend might have exactly the same specs and can get away with 1.2v on SA & IO while you can't, thats why most of the times manufacturers tend to over feed certain voltages by a small margin to sustain stability.

As for VID and Vcore, even 1.2V is okay since llc kicks in to lower it down on heavy loads. You can try with different LLC and different VID to see where the sweet spot for your CPU is while testing your CPU for stability. IMO though it's really not needed for 11400.

As for the steps I mentioned, yes you can follow them! Just make sure of the naming schemes. Not all names will be the similar between gigabyte and asus, and not all settings might be available on your board.
Hello,
Thanks for reply. I will try those memory settings tonight. I usually play R6S. Sometimes the game feel so smooth & sometimes its like im lagging 3/4 frame behind. I saw in another post that higher auto volt may cause this muddy mouse move / lag may be. That's why i disabled xmp as i didn't notice noticable difference between 2666 & 3200mhz , so from 1.05 to 1.3 v for vccsa was doubtful for me.
FYI i tried locked 4200mhz with adaptive vcore @1.1v, disabled all power saving related things in bios & it was fine. Auto vcore max it @1.2v . Temp stays from 55-62'c whatever volt i set.
I also tried with 1.28v for RAM as it use 1.3v in hwinfo(may be +0.2v offset in auto) for 3200hz ram & it also works without crashing. But im not sure whether it low volt for it & make unstable frametimes sometime & make those lags, thats why again i set all things @auto /default.

3xil3
Posts: 48
Joined: 18 Jul 2021, 20:03

Re: Pretty sure fixed my lag for real with intel

Post by 3xil3 » 13 May 2022, 02:13

Just heads up this didnt fix anything i posted fix about disabling windows full screen optimization globally from registry

woodyfly
Posts: 91
Joined: 03 Jul 2020, 07:53

Re: Pretty sure fixed my lag for real with intel

Post by woodyfly » 14 May 2022, 19:23

thats the classic problem comes back after 1 week :_)

zyarra
Posts: 1
Joined: 10 Mar 2024, 06:44

Re: Pretty sure fixed my lag for real with intel

Post by zyarra » 10 Mar 2024, 06:45

Thatweirdinputlag wrote:
05 May 2022, 17:50
3xii3,

I want you to try something out, it needs a bit of trial and error but its not hard.. When you change VCSSA or VCCIO to an equivalent of +-150-200mv your motherboard resets and turns off, then it turns on again, so it doesn't do a fast restart since it needs to retrain the memory with the new values. What you might've experienced is a RAM training problem that even my ASUS Z390 has, and that restart in specific got you a good training. but will go away when the system power recycles and the memory is trained again. So what we will try to do now, is to see what is the best marginal values that you can have, and possibly lock them in so it doesn't do a different training every time.
this is actually a thing... memory training can screw up things.
I tried to once my memory as everything else was giga stable and suddenly I can't even run my ram at stock...


somehow now I managed to reset these trainings and once again it seems to be OK

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