still got a zowie x2411 (no 2411p), impression and questions

[zhenlw]

The x2411 is for fighting game mainly (need the 60hz single strobe). First, overall it works very well.

I cannot access the service menu for some reason (zowie rebanding? FW too new?): press button 3+5 and power on, then I can access factory menu with button 5, but no service menu. Then I enabled the single strobe by using the utility---thanks to Chief for the utility, also off topic: thanks for the good site where I learned the idea of eye-tracking based blur and double image.

At 60hz + single strobe playing a fighting game like UMVC3, the experience is very good: the moves are crystal clear now, and no consciously perceivable flicker with the quickly moving characters and backgrounds---not sure sub-consciously whether it will be bad for our eyes or brain.

With stationary bright images, like with desktop, however, 60hz strobing isn't bearable. I totally forgot the experience with CRT, but do remember that is not bearable too. So I run the desktop at 120hz now---will see if it will make me uncomfortable in a long run, but I do still feel a faint flickering even @120hz, while typing this post.

The color of 2411 is good too. For me it is better than the 2536 I returned, when no adjustment applied. Build wise 2536 is superior no doubt. 2411 is not bad too.

For config, I shorten the strobe length a little, but didn't do any adjustment in strobe phase or VT yet: not very sensitive to a little crosstalk.

But one question: by default the strobe phase is 100, And is it earlier than 0? Because I fancy I saw some post by Falkentyne or other, that "100" causes less input lag, which confuses me actually: should not "0" or "10" be earlier in a refresh cycle and causing less lag?

And BTW xl2536 has a default strobe phase of 10 it looks.

[Falkentyne]

Did you try holding down button #4 for 5 seconds?
I don't remember the XL2411/XL2411Z, but it was a different button than the XL2420Z or XL2720Z, or the newer benq monitors. But it was -one- of the buttons.

You will know it worked, because you won't see the Benq/Zowie logo appear.

[zhenlw]

Did you try holding down button #4 for 5 seconds?
I don't remember the XL2411/XL2411Z, but it was a different button than the XL2420Z or XL2720Z, or the newer benq monitors. But it was -one- of the buttons.

You will know it worked, because you won't see the Benq/Zowie logo appear.

I did, and did again and again. Because the xl2536 was button 4. 2411 is with 3+5, I think it is in your post.

This one is very strange: with 1 or 3 or 4 or 5 button solely held, you cannot really power the monitor back on. With button 2 you can, but no effect at all.

With 3+5 it can be turned on and the factory menu works (press 5 after the power on). So I am very certain 3+5 works, but for some reason no service menu. The firmware is v7.

[Falkentyne]

When you hold down button 2 and keep it held down when powering on the monitor, does the benq logo appear or does it not appear?
Because if it doesn't appear, then one of the buttons should open the service menu after that.

[zhenlw]

Indeed the benq log doesn't appears. I guess I didn't try "press every button after re-power-on-with-button-2" yet. Will experiment next Monday because I put the monitor in the office.

Meanwhile is there any knowledge about the strobe phase question: why 100 better than 0 or 10 regarding input lag? Thanks a lot.

[Chief Blur Buster]

It's no longer necessary to use the Service Menu.

You can use Blur Busters Strobe Utility 2.0.9+ which supports your monitor now, and allows you to adjust the full range in the service menu too. The whole adjustment range is already unlocked in the latest Strobe Utility versions!

Meanwhile is there any knowledge about the strobe phase question: why 100 better than 0 or 10 regarding input lag? Thanks a lot.

The input lag gradient "wraps around" so there's almost no lag difference between 0 and 100. The 100 setting is almost the same as the 0 setting, though slightly higher up from the bottom than 0 (if you're not using Large Vertical Totals to reduce crosstalk further) -- so may have about 0.5ms less lag at the most. The physical appearance of the crosstalk band is the lag determinator, so when 0 and 100 has the crosstalk band in exactly the same location, the lag is exactly the same.

The lag is lowest immediately above the crosstalk band, and highest immediately below the crosstalk band. The lag between the bands is the average lag. It's a lag gradient along the Y dimension ranging from [0...refresh cycle length] in a linear way from band-to-band (wraparound), regardless of band location, whether it's center of screen or overlapping both top/bottom. So if crosstalk band is center of screen, the average lag shifts to both top/bottom edges (and lowest lag is immediately above the crosstalk band, highest lag immediately below the crosstalk band). If band is "peeking-out" both top/bottom, the average lag is screen center (and lowest lag is immediately above bottom edge of screen, highest lag immediately below the top edge of screen). If you want your crosshairs to be the lowest lag, shift your crosstalk band to just immediately below the crosshairs (default setting XL2720Z Version 1 firmware). However, crosstalk is annoying, so most people don't use that setting and prefer to shift the band a little further out of the way (i.e. closer to bottom of the screen or top of screen, often overlapping both in fairly equal parts).

[zhenlw]

Thanks Chief. I am already using the 2.0.x utility from day 1. Really great to have.

Also the strobe phase info is great: I wasn't aware the phase adjustment cover the whole cycle. Also I am not aware LCD doesn't refresh the whole screen at the same time---this idea I need to consume and learn more.

[zhenlw]

The service menu mode is found: it is button 2 and poweron. Then button 4 (menu) will bring up the service menu.

Also observed crosstalk @120hz a bit: when strobe phase is 0, the crosstalk band is at top and bottom, almost evenly. while when phase being 100, it moves up by some amount, but it is not very slight (most crosstalk band moved to bottom it looks). So I am suspecting that between 0 and 100 there are still some gap (where benq don't want you to move the phase to).

Tried a little VT=1350 too via nvidia control panel, but that makes the phase tweaking very strangely, 0 the screen is very bright, moving rightward, it just dims down until at some point (perhaps 50) totally blacks out. It almost looks like the strobe duty is being moved to some dark zone (if not all the sudden strobe phase "becomes" strobe duty).

[Falkentyne]

hi,
You can use a VT of 1500 at 120hz. But make sure you use the porch and sync timings of
48,3
and 32,5
and horizontal total 2080

NOT 88,4 and 44,5 and horizontal total 2200.

88,4 and 44,5 and HT: 2200 are for 60hz only.

This thread explains why the screen blacks out at 120hz.
But part of the reason is obvious:

max strobe phase is 100, right?
The benq monitor uses "60hz" as a baseline for strobe pulse widths, then everything is adjusted by this.
120hz is "double" 60hz or 'half' the persistence value (8.3ms vs 16.7ms).

Thus max strobe phase is now 49 instead of 100 (since 0 counts as the first value).
this only applies when using "custom" vertical totals (this does not apply at default vertical total at 120hz).

Most of the detailed explanation about this is here:
Maybe a lot won't make sense to you, but hopefully some of it will.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2467

[zhenlw]

Thanks, Flakentyne.

I did some tweak with VT=1501 (so I got no stutter/sync issue in the UFO test), and the porch/sync params are automatically correct with nvidia. And it worked. Just I am not very sensitive to the cross talk to tell much of a difference.

Will read the post more carefully when get some time. Thanks again.