Gaming PC's Are NOT properly grounded to the Case

[r0ach]

there's ground pins on every electrical connector in the pc except for maybe like a fan lmao

If the fan is connected to say a 4 pin molex then the 2 out of 4 of the pins are ground. But that doesn’t actually help because I think when the fan motors spin they create noise that leaks back up the lines into the PSU. I’ve noticed I like how my system controls better with the case open and just a single fan running on the CPU rather than the thing closed with 4 fans connected.

The PC is still playable with all of them connected but you can just notice slightly heavier cursor movement while it’s lighter with only a single fan. It’s possible some people have a ground problem but I doubt that’s what the problem is for most people and it’s going to be insanely hard to diagnose things like the above.

Then you have other niche things like where I swear I’ve noticed mice that have ferrite chokes on the cords have more linear and slightly smoother movement than ones that cheap out and don’t include them. There’s a lot of tiny issues like this where if you don’t pay attention to them those 10 tiny things might add up to make your system unplayable for competitive games.

[dervu]

there's ground pins on every electrical connector in the pc except for maybe like a fan lmao

If the fan is connected to say a 4 pin molex then the 2 out of 4 of the pins are ground. But that doesn’t actually help because I think when the fan motors spin they create noise that leaks back up the lines into the PSU. I’ve noticed I like how my system controls better with the case open and just a single fan running on the CPU rather than the thing closed with 4 fans connected.

The PC is still playable with all of them connected but you can just notice slightly heavier cursor movement while it’s lighter with only a single fan. It’s possible some people have a ground problem but I doubt that’s what the problem is for most people and it’s going to be insanely hard to diagnose things like the above.

Then you have other niche things like where I swear I’ve noticed mice that have ferrite chokes on the cords have more linear and slightly smoother movement than ones that cheap out and don’t include them. There’s a lot of tiny issues like this where if you don’t pay attention to them those 10 tiny things might add up to make your system unplayable for competitive games.

So Logitech G Pro X Superlight is crap because it does not have ferrite choke? Somehow pro players use it and don't have issues.

[r0ach]

there's ground pins on every electrical connector in the pc except for maybe like a fan lmao

If the fan is connected to say a 4 pin molex then the 2 out of 4 of the pins are ground. But that doesn’t actually help because I think when the fan motors spin they create noise that leaks back up the lines into the PSU. I’ve noticed I like how my system controls better with the case open and just a single fan running on the CPU rather than the thing closed with 4 fans connected.

The PC is still playable with all of them connected but you can just notice slightly heavier cursor movement while it’s lighter with only a single fan. It’s possible some people have a ground problem but I doubt that’s what the problem is for most people and it’s going to be insanely hard to diagnose things like the above.

Then you have other niche things like where I swear I’ve noticed mice that have ferrite chokes on the cords have more linear and slightly smoother movement than ones that cheap out and don’t include them. There’s a lot of tiny issues like this where if you don’t pay attention to them those 10 tiny things might add up to make your system unplayable for competitive games.

So Logitech G Pro X Superlight is crap because it does not have ferrite choke? Somehow pro players use it and don't have issues.

I use the Superlight only in plugged in mode 100% of the time and believe it does have a ferrite bead on the cable. Never seen a single mouse that doesn’t feel like poop in wireless mode. Not sure why anyone uses them. Must be lots of people who are just insanely incompetent at cable management.

[InputLagger]

there's ground pins on every electrical connector in the pc except for maybe like a fan lmao

If the fan is connected to say a 4 pin molex then the 2 out of 4 of the pins are ground. But that doesn’t actually help because I think when the fan motors spin they create noise that leaks back up the lines into the PSU. I’ve noticed I like how my system controls better with the case open and just a single fan running on the CPU rather than the thing closed with 4 fans connected.

The PC is still playable with all of them connected but you can just notice slightly heavier cursor movement while it’s lighter with only a single fan. It’s possible some people have a ground problem but I doubt that’s what the problem is for most people and it’s going to be insanely hard to diagnose things like the above.

Then you have other niche things like where I swear I’ve noticed mice that have ferrite chokes on the cords have more linear and slightly smoother movement than ones that cheap out and don’t include them. There’s a lot of tiny issues like this where if you don’t pay attention to them those 10 tiny things might add up to make your system unplayable for competitive games.

Motor bearing / the fan brand name doesn't matter? Which brand did you use in tests?

[r0ach]

there's ground pins on every electrical connector in the pc except for maybe like a fan lmao

If the fan is connected to say a 4 pin molex then the 2 out of 4 of the pins are ground. But that doesn’t actually help because I think when the fan motors spin they create noise that leaks back up the lines into the PSU. I’ve noticed I like how my system controls better with the case open and just a single fan running on the CPU rather than the thing closed with 4 fans connected.

The PC is still playable with all of them connected but you can just notice slightly heavier cursor movement while it’s lighter with only a single fan. It’s possible some people have a ground problem but I doubt that’s what the problem is for most people and it’s going to be insanely hard to diagnose things like the above.

Then you have other niche things like where I swear I’ve noticed mice that have ferrite chokes on the cords have more linear and slightly smoother movement than ones that cheap out and don’t include them. There’s a lot of tiny issues like this where if you don’t pay attention to them those 10 tiny things might add up to make your system unplayable for competitive games.

Motor bearing / the fan brand name doesn't matter? Which brand did you use in tests?

I haven’t put in the time testing between different fan/bearing types yet. I never really noticed fans being a problem before in the past but could tell something was fishy when I tried to integrate some 140mm Fractal fans into current build.

[Maelstrom]

there's ground pins on every electrical connector in the pc except for maybe like a fan lmao

If the fan is connected to say a 4 pin molex then the 2 out of 4 of the pins are ground. But that doesn’t actually help because I think when the fan motors spin they create noise that leaks back up the lines into the PSU. I’ve noticed I like how my system controls better with the case open and just a single fan running on the CPU rather than the thing closed with 4 fans connected.

The PC is still playable with all of them connected but you can just notice slightly heavier cursor movement while it’s lighter with only a single fan. It’s possible some people have a ground problem but I doubt that’s what the problem is for most people and it’s going to be insanely hard to diagnose things like the above.

Then you have other niche things like where I swear I’ve noticed mice that have ferrite chokes on the cords have more linear and slightly smoother movement than ones that cheap out and don’t include them. There’s a lot of tiny issues like this where if you don’t pay attention to them those 10 tiny things might add up to make your system unplayable for competitive games.

Motor bearing / the fan brand name doesn't matter? Which brand did you use in tests?

I haven’t put in the time testing between different fan/bearing types yet. I never really noticed fans being a problem before in the past but could tell something was fishy when I tried to integrate some 140mm Fractal fans into current build.

I'm currently using a default setup fractal torrent right now
Please let me know what your testing finds.
Personally I expect you're probably right, that while it may make some small difference, it is not and will not be "The Problem".

[Maelstrom]

For what it's worth for anyone reading this, I tried some/most of the steps outlined here on a fresh windows install and it did not solve my issue.

detail:
- new case with solid metal construction (no side panel)
- new seasonic PSU, a good one
- only the mouse and keyboard plugged in (i checked the motherboard block diagram to attach them to the usb ports that are direct to the CPU
- since I know the usb controller for my mouse and keyboard, i was easily able to use MSI Utility to change those to be interrupts and of a high priority
- filed down screws and mounts to ensure proper metal contact

spec:
7800x3d (no c state, small OC, SMT disabled and good cooling)
3080Ti
Windows 10
240Hz monitor in gsync mode


symptoms:
I play quake and overwatch. I regularly run into games where it feels like my hitbox is 3x the size it should be, and similarly, I run into games where hitreg and enemy movement is off, along with my own movement sometimes feeling a bit sluggish.
Most importantly - this effect varies from player to player in the server. In quake live, since the community is small this effect is particularly noticeable, but it is also noticeable in OW in certain game modes and elos.
I'm confident of the last point in particular, as I also run into situations where it favours me. I.e. my own footage shows me clearly missing someone, and the game will give me the hit, and so on.

side note:
Kovaaks is very slightly stuttery - not the framerate but the

conclusion:
After this upgrade, I noticed no difference, not even a temporary one. At least it got me to upgrade from an old case that was well past its time.

[r0ach]

For what it's worth for anyone reading this, I tried some/most of the steps outlined here on a fresh windows install and it did not solve my issue.

detail:
- new case with solid metal construction (no side panel)
- new seasonic PSU, a good one
- only the mouse and keyboard plugged in (i checked the motherboard block diagram to attach them to the usb ports that are direct to the CPU
- since I know the usb controller for my mouse and keyboard, i was easily able to use MSI Utility to change those to be interrupts and of a high priority
- filed down screws and mounts to ensure proper metal contact

spec:
7800x3d (no c state, small OC, SMT disabled and good cooling)
3080Ti
Windows 10
240Hz monitor in gsync mode


symptoms:
I play quake and overwatch. I regularly run into games where it feels like my hitbox is 3x the size it should be, and similarly, I run into games where hitreg and enemy movement is off, along with my own movement sometimes feeling a bit sluggish.
Most importantly - this effect varies from player to player in the server. In quake live, since the community is small this effect is particularly noticeable, but it is also noticeable in OW in certain game modes and elos.
I'm confident of the last point in particular, as I also run into situations where it favours me. I.e. my own footage shows me clearly missing someone, and the game will give me the hit, and so on.

side note:
Kovaaks is very slightly stuttery - not the framerate but the

conclusion:
After this upgrade, I noticed no difference, not even a temporary one. At least it got me to upgrade from an old case that was well past its time.

- For Seasonic PSU, I don’t think the prime was actually good and shut down under transient spikes from larger cards, so you would probably need a Vertex to have a good Seasonic PSU. Those also ship with 14 AWG power cords and you can notice a difference between thicker cables like that for mouse movement vs 18 AWG ones (some might prefer 18 AWG though giving less slippery mouse movement).

- Doing things like changing interrupt priority in Windows is from my experience more detrimental or a sideways thing rather than any improvement

- 7700 is probably a better gaming CPU than 7800x3d because when you can’t lock voltage/multiplier and everything else, it’s kind of the equivalent of having power savings you can’t turn off, so 7700 would likely have better mouse movement but less FPS. Haven’t used a zen 3/4 CPU, but guessing Intel is still better for mouse movement on top of that.

- I always get better mouse movement from reference cards rather than 3rd party

- Turn gsync off

- Buy a power strip with no internal filtering, either a “power distributor” for rack mounts or a white GE one with no internal filtering (the black one has filtering) and plug only 3 things into it. The PSU in plug 1, monitor in 2, then test speakers in second to last slot vs last slot.

[Maelstrom]

- For Seasonic PSU, I don’t think the prime was actually good and shut down under transient spikes from larger cards, so you would probably need a Vertex to have a good Seasonic PSU. Those also ship with 14 AWG power cords and you can notice a difference between thicker cables like that for mouse movement vs 18 AWG ones (some might prefer 18 AWG though giving less slippery mouse movement).

- Doing things like changing interrupt priority in Windows is from my experience more detrimental or a sideways thing rather than any improvement

- 7700 is probably a better gaming CPU than 7800x3d because when you can’t lock voltage/multiplier and everything else, it’s kind of the equivalent of having power savings you can’t turn off, so 7700 would likely have better mouse movement but less FPS. Haven’t used a zen 3/4 CPU, but guessing Intel is still better for mouse movement on top of that.

- I always get better mouse movement from reference cards rather than 3rd party

- Turn gsync off

- Buy a power strip with no internal filtering, either a “power distributor” for rack mounts or a white GE one with no internal filtering (the black one has filtering) and plug only 3 things into it. The PSU in plug 1, monitor in 2, then test speakers in second to last slot vs last slot.

I appreciate the reply/help however my issues aren't with input lag or mouse feel (kovaaks feels fine for example, but I noticed a very slight judder on the bot movement - this may just be due to 240hz)

I also think it's worth most member's time on this forum to move on from repeating received wisdom - as often times this turns out to imho be a red herring.

From my perspective I'm looking at 2 possibilities:

the pc is not performing hit detection and iterp correctly in online games, or not properly sending movement due to some EMI or other electrical issue. I find this hard to believe but there's a lot of posts on this board with people having the same experience, so I'll try the cheap/easy solutions as best as I can but I'm not dropping thousands on fresh PCs and UPSs.

Alternatively there is some network configuration which is highly advantageous in online gaming, that is not yet known.
On this front - I have FTTH and my problem remains - so I'm looking at monitoring my network in more detail to understand the issue.

One thing I've immediately noticed is that the latency is assymetric. i.e. download latency is half that of upload latency. I want to have a look to see how I can fix this and also to see whether other people experiencing issues on supposedly "perfect" connections have the same property

[r0ach]

the pc is not performing hit detection and iterp correctly in online games, or not properly sending movement due to some EMI or other electrical issue. I find this hard to believe but there's a lot of posts on this board with people having the same experience

Never experienced any issue like that before but if you do enough searching I bet you'll find people who fixed said issue by switching from cable to fiber. As for other EMI-related stuff, half bridge topology PSUs potentially seem better dealing with EMI-related problems than full bridge for esoteric, electrical engineering reasons:

https://www.ieice.org/~nolta/symposium/ ... f/4204.pdf

I don't really understand why there are so many EMI-related threads myself when it seems like simply using a double conversion system + fiber would make it not possible for the problem to persist. But of course fiber is not available everywhere, yet the same double conversion systems seem able to filter ethernet signal anyway no matter what your internet source is. And you could always use the dreaded wifi if scared of bad things coming in over the physical line.