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Re: Are Cougar Mice Legit 2000hz Polling Rate?

PostPosted: 07 Feb 2018, 06:13
by mello
Just saw this:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/66 ... escription
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DXsc1IaI9A

But it is strange that there is no mention whatsoever about polling rate, and even their software doesn't have this information (or even ability to change it!). From advertisement standpoint they should have included this information, so it looks a little amateurish to me :/

Re: Are Cougar Mice Legit 2000hz Polling Rate?

PostPosted: 09 Feb 2018, 14:28
by Chief Blur Buster
mello wrote:Just saw this:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/66 ... escription
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DXsc1IaI9A

But it is strange that there is no mention whatsoever about polling rate, and even their software doesn't have this information (or even ability to change it!). From advertisement standpoint they should have included this information, so it looks a little amateurish to me :/

Certainly not having this info is certainly problematic for eSports.....

....but I do love the idea of building a thumb joystick on the side of a computer mouse. It's fantastic for RTS, Minecraft, weapon grid selection, gas, throttle, walkspeed/flightspeed changes, and other applications -- and of course, flight simulators, space simulators. Like the hat joystick on top of a large Thrustmaster joystick, but a hat joystick for your thumb on the side of a computer mouse. And the whole mouse acts as an analog joystick too, so a hybrid between a mouse and a Thrustmaster joystick in a kind of way.

Two embedded joysticks (mouse tilting as analog joystick + digital thumbstick on side) is fantastic for all kinds of flying simulators. Flight simulators. Space simulators. Could be a fantastic casual-gaming mouse regardless of its Hertz when it comes to the basics for just playing Minecraft or RTS or a flight simulator etc.

Obviously we need more information about mouse Hz, since that is absolutely essential for competitive and eSports usage, as well as lag-sensitive people. Who knows, this specific run may not be good for eSports (until verified as such) but should be great for a lot of genres!

I hope this spreads to multiple mice over the coming years!

Re: Are Cougar Mice Legit 2000hz Polling Rate?

PostPosted: 09 Feb 2018, 17:53
by sharknice
That mouse does seem pretty cool. The problem is the tilting hinders normal mouse movement. I would never use it for competitive gaming because of that.

Re: Are Cougar Mice Legit 2000hz Polling Rate?

PostPosted: 10 Feb 2018, 00:57
by darzo
Finalmouse, who/him/whatever has a spotty reputation but I'm still willing to give a product a try, just came out with a mouse that weighs under 70 grams, which makes it by far the lightest with a 3360 sensor and its dimensions are if anything too big. This was accomplished by cutting out wholes from the shell. One of the potential problems is a 500 polling rate. Is that acceptable? How will it be different from 1000?

Re: Are Cougar Mice Legit 2000hz Polling Rate?

PostPosted: 19 Dec 2018, 20:55
by Niko
I have Minos X5. Its legit 2000hz. I tried to OC it more but no luck.

Re: Are Cougar Mice Legit 2000hz Polling Rate?

PostPosted: 25 Dec 2018, 02:16
by Chief Blur Buster
Niko wrote:I have Minos X5. Its legit 2000hz. I tried to OC it more but no luck.

Fantastic, I need to buy one of those for my tests.

Not just for eSports, but for enjoying microstutterless ULMB

2000 Hz should be helpful for VSYNC ON ULMB at Pulse Width 50%.

When blurless+stutterless+tearingless is numero uno over latency -- like enjoying the world's smoothest RTS drag-scrolling during ULMB -- with ULMB Pulse Width 50% (roughly ~0.5ms MPRT) -- the benefits of 2000Hz mouse poll rate becomes noticeable if you use
(A) NVIDIA ULMB
(B) ULMB Pulse Width ~50% for 0.5ms MPRT
(C) VSYNC ON, or the use of RTSS Scanline Sync (if you can guarantee your 0.1% frametime never exceeds a refresh cycle)
(D) Full framerate perfectly matching refresh rate (powerful GPU or older game)
(E) Clean mousepad with extremely smooth surface
(F) Clean mousefeet
(G) Control Panel at exact middle "Pointer Speed" settings
(H) DPI very high in vendor mouse UI, as high as it can accurately do (before it becomes inaccurate/interpolated)
(I) Sensitivity set very low in-game to compensate for very high DPI

...Then THIS is when 2000Hz actually makes a more noticeable difference.

For the silky blurless+stutterless+tearingless experience, mouse pollrate limitations begin to manifest itself as mousedrags/mouseturns not being as smooth as keyboard strafe/scrolls.

If you absolutely adore keyboard-fluidity of a computer mouse, during CRT-clarity zero-blur, 2000Hz poll actually is useful. ULMB amplifies visibility of microstutters so much, that the microstutter difference of 1000Hz vs 2000Hz pollrate can become human visible during blur-reduced situations (e.g. ULMB or ultra-high-Hz such as 480Hz+) and becoming even more visible during 0.5ms MPRT situations.

Most eSports players use VSYNC OFF, which adds microstuttering in exchange for the elimination of lag. Thank to the new low-lag VSYNC techniques (RTSS Scanline Sync), the use of framerate-synchronization is now becoming usable again in competitive gameplay, especially on high-Hz monitors. Framerate-synchronization (fps = Hz) amplifies pollrate limitations so 2000Hz becomes visible.

Even for VSYNC OFF, the use of 2000Hz can still help but does require a massive overkill of framerate to become visible -- e.g. Quake Live or simple CS:GO matches. 2000Hz can disappear below the noisefloor at 120Hz or 144Hz AFAIK, and just barely comes above the noisefloor during 240Hz. Now, as refresh rates start to hit 480Hz, 480fps, and 0.5ms GtG, the use of 2000Hz will likely be visible even for sample-and-hold. However, it will be several years before this really happens.

2000Hz benefits are certainly subtle, but definitely not zero-perceivable benefit.