Best windows for competitive gaming

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Chief Blur Buster
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Re: Best windows for competitive gaming

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 09 Jun 2020, 23:07

schizobeyondpills wrote:
09 Jun 2020, 14:53
stating the clear truth
Saying the truth and being nice is not mutually exclusive.

Anyway, I do think this thread has really run its course. Too many offtopic offshoots that is now offtopic from "Best windows for competitive gaming". Moving to Offtopic Lounge.
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bleach
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Re: Best windows for competitive gaming

Post by bleach » 10 Jun 2020, 03:25

schizobeyondpills wrote:
09 Jun 2020, 14:24

1. these "pros" are just kids
2. there is not enough integirty in eSports due to low $, tight burnout timespan (16-24) after that your reflexes start to degrade
3. pros dont really practice on the same tryhard level as pro's of other sports such as IRL ones(due to them being kids, paired with having bad understanding of how to practice properly, not having a team of professionals (due to low payments of esports), not being mature enough to self-reflect and discipline themselves properly)
4. if they shit-talk a product for being bad, they wont get sponsorship deals both from that company and other, this is further backed up by low money they make from actually being good at the game compared to sponsorship deals from major companies(look at gaming chairs for example)
5. if those pros you praise so much were given a free tuning/tweaking/oc'ing service on their own setup, their performance would improve 10-20% AT LEAST
6. you could've invested 2 hours of your time to install windows 7, debloat it, measure latency, measure mouse movement and conclude yourself
7. we are as real as it gets, since we dont operate on perceived imaginary authority like you, but rather on raw measured data from tools as well as evidence from documentation which clearly shows how, where and why 7 beats 10.
anything else?
1. Irrelevant.
2. League of Legends player salaries in China, Europe, and North America would beg to differ.
3. Ridiculous and factually incorrect; there are many examples of pros who spend 14+ hours a day PRACTICING.
4. Good point, sponsorships are the main reason why I don't trust pro player setups for scouting good performing hardware.
5. Maybe, maybe not.
6. Why would I want to install an operating system that isn't even supported by software developers anymore?
7. Didn't read much of this thread before, but I'll assume this to be true.
ee energy is eternal

theangryregulator

Re: Best windows for competitive gaming

Post by theangryregulator » 10 Jun 2020, 05:52

Imagine larping about secret tweaks to improve gaming whilst talking down pros at the same time... :?.
10 posts i made on this forum are worth more than all posts on reddit and youtube benchmark videos combined in lag/latency reduction info

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Re: Best windows for competitive gaming

Post by mello » 10 Jun 2020, 07:02

schizobeyondpills wrote:
09 Jun 2020, 14:24
1. these "pros" are just kids
Talking from personal experience. Professional gamers are nothing special, they are all normal people who specialize at something specific and they have achieved elite level in comparison to other humans at doing this particular thing. This is no different from any other specialization that every human has. I have known many pros over the years, and i agree 100% that an appeal to authority argument is meaningless here. What pros do, how they do things, why they do things, what hardware and setting they use or what they recommend is irrelevant. No one should be taking an advice regarding windows / game settings, hardware advice from professional gamers, because almost none of them specialize in this area. Almost all of them either use personal preferences, try to copy each other or they have read some articles / watch some videos and then they try to pass that "knowledge" from an authorative perspective. There are very few pros who are actually a generally smart and knowledable people in different areas and outside of their gaming & skillset specialty. And thats just the truth and it applies to all other areas of life too.
schizobeyondpills wrote:
09 Jun 2020, 14:24
tight burnout timespan (16-24) after that your reflexes start to degrade
I don't think that is true. I think this is all about motivation and about goals and achievements, exactly the same as with any other sport. Once you are not fully committed, you lose a step, and because of that your performance suffers. Not because you are getting older.
schizobeyondpills wrote:
09 Jun 2020, 14:24
5. if those pros you praise so much were given a free tuning/tweaking/oc'ing service on their own setup, their performance would improve 10-20% AT LEAST
Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. I have been gaming since internet-cafes era, and what you said here is a completely nonsensical argument. Tuning/tweaking/oc'ing is literally nothing compared to the actual skill that the player poses, and elite players will deliver high performance even on a bad / slow setup ups. The next big thing is internet connection performance. You can have best hardware in the world with the best tuning/tweaking/oc'ing, but it will all mean nothing if you are being crippled and bottlenecked by a poor internet connection. After both of these factors there is a big gap... ... ... and then, there are slight hardware & tuning/tweaking/oc'ing benefits which are mostly situation / game specific.
schizobeyondpills wrote:
09 Jun 2020, 14:24
7. we are as real as it gets, since we dont operate on perceived imaginary authority like you, but rather on raw measured data from tools as well as evidence from documentation which clearly shows how, where and why 7 beats 10.
anything else?
And still, Win7/Win10 debate is IMO completely irrelevant compared to the actual skill of the player (1st biggest factor) and the actual internet connection performance (2nd biggest factor). On LAN they all use the same system anyway, and when gaming via internet, OS / hardware / tuning/tweaking/oc'ing plays very little role when it comes to delivering high level gaming performance (results wise).
Last edited by mello on 10 Jun 2020, 13:19, edited 1 time in total.

1000WATT
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Re: Best windows for competitive gaming

Post by 1000WATT » 10 Jun 2020, 07:49

schizobeyondpills wrote:
09 Jun 2020, 22:46
10 posts i made on this forum are worth more than all posts on reddit and youtube benchmark videos combined in lag/latency reduction info
Maybe it is so. But all of your statements and opinions are not very interesting until you provide your own test results with a demonstration before and after. With hardware and software. This topic legally went offtopic. A lot of posts, but no one’s delays didn’t decrease, and e-sports did not fly up to the level of the Olympic Games. YouTube and reddit can be omitted as an example, so the topic of delays is more suitable for the overclockers forum. Are your 10 posts worth more than all overclocker forum test combined with information on reducing delays ?
I often do not clearly state my thoughts. google translate is far from perfect. And in addition to the translator, I myself am mistaken. Do not take me seriously.

Simon95
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Re: Best windows for competitive gaming

Post by Simon95 » 10 Jun 2020, 09:03

I installed NTlite but its not starting.

Brainlet
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Re: Best windows for competitive gaming

Post by Brainlet » 10 Jun 2020, 11:36

mello wrote:
10 Jun 2020, 07:02
On LAN they all use the same system anyway, and when gaming via internet, OS / hardware / tuning/tweaking/oc'ing plays very little role when it comes to delivering high level gaming performance (results wise).
LANs are not to be taken seriously as long as players can bring their own peripherals (which is also just one of many possible methods of injecting).
https://www.reddit.com/r/VACsucks/comme ... tacted_to/
https://www.reddit.com/r/VACsucks/comme ... _pro_csgo/

I'm gonna say it again, appeal to authority is not a valid argument when the authority is not legit.
Besides, it's not just about gaming. The entire experience of using a mouse is heavily degraded, whether it's browsing the internet or playing a game. It is simply not pleasant to move a sluggish cursor and it has become a big issue over time.
mello wrote:
10 Jun 2020, 07:02
Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. I have been gaming since internet-cafes era, and what you said here is a completely nonsensical argument. Tuning/tweaking/oc'ing is literally nothing compared to the actual skill that the player poses, and elite players will deliver high performance even on a bad / slow setup ups.
Image
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX31kZb ... .be&t=1025

You can clearly see the scaling in this video. Also, have you ever asked yourself how shroud comes in 4th place out of 5 people when confronted with a mouse that's not his own? Beaten by a casual tech youtuber :)

Also, I suggest changing the title to something fitting for an Input Lag discussion rather than moving the thread to offtopic.

theangryregulator

Re: Best windows for competitive gaming

Post by theangryregulator » 10 Jun 2020, 12:22

brainlet = schizo's alt account?

Are you really using this clip of shroud to say something about his ability?

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Re: Best windows for competitive gaming

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 10 Jun 2020, 12:29

Brainlet wrote:
10 Jun 2020, 11:36
You can clearly see the scaling in this video. Also, have you ever asked yourself how shroud comes in 4th place out of 5 people when confronted with a mouse that's not his own? Beaten by a casual tech youtuber :)
It's possibly partially related to the training effect, a subchapter (2nd post) of the Milliseconds Matter: The Amazing Human Visible Feats Of The Millisecond thread.

In the spirit of Blur Busters esports commentary neutrality, we see the obvious: Professional olympics sprinters can fall several places back suddenly in practice runs when they switched equipment such as shoe brands as one example. Football players that normally play only on grass vs astroturf, suddenly try to play on a different field surface and fail more often. Environment change and/or equipment change issues can turn a champion player into an average or below-average player. There are those who adapt faster, others adapt slower, when adapting to a different environment/equipment.

Thus, I deem this irrelevant.
Brainlet wrote:
10 Jun 2020, 11:36
Also, I suggest changing the title to something fitting for an Input Lag discussion rather than moving the thread to offtopic.
New threads are welcome. Post a new thread completely from scratch, meeting "be nice to others" rules.

The rule is favoured towards original poster in treatment of replies to an original poster's thread.

Right now, this is davidoo's thread and Original Poster typically first right to control the direction of their own forum threads here. If OP wants to change the thread title, this may reverse the move -- right now, the thread is currently a bit too derailed of several non-OP people debating non-OP-related topics, plus several non-latency-topics (esports politics) in the OP's thread. This is why Blur Busters Forums is above-average reputation to many, the OP gets a bit more rights to thread direction than the average forum. A more blunt phrase is called "thread crapping" (UrbanDictionary), but it also applies to more innocous topic derails too.

Also, the Latency Forum is not the appropriate venue to debate polarizing esports topics in a Forum-temperature-raised environment (UrbanDictionary).

In other words, whatever the truth or lies are, Blur Busters is chiefly focussed on display temporals (motionblur, lag, MPRT, GtG, strobe, refresh, framerate, etc). Music classroom is usually not the correct venue to argue details of Einstein Theory of Relativity. And Math classroom is usually not the correct venue to argue Origin of Life. Etc.
mello wrote:
10 Jun 2020, 07:02
Talking from personal experience. Professional gamers are nothing special, they are all normal people who specialize at something specific and they have achieved elite level in comparison to other humans at doing this particular thing. This is no different from any other specialization that every human has. I have known many pros over the years, and i agree 100% that an appeal to authority argument is meaningless here. What pros do, how they do things, why they do things, what hardware and setting they use or what they recommend is irrelevant. No one should be taking an advice regarding windows / game settings, hardware advice from professional gamers, because almost none of they specialize in this area. Almost all of them either use personal preferences, try to copy each other or they have read some articles / watch some videos and then they try to pass that "knowledge" from a authorative perspective. There are very few pros who are actually a generally smart and knowledable people in different areas and outside of their gaming & skillset specialty. And thats just the truth and it applies to all other areas of life too.
Hey Mello, thanks for your thoughtful reply -- always enjoy reading your posts.

The good old adage, "Jack of all trades, masters of none" is quite true. Blur Busters is stupendously specialized on display temporals (refresh rates, frame rates, GtG, MPRT, strobing, blur, etc), and we excel as an authority on those matters.

However, subtopics now start to try to push the envelope of the Jack of All Trades matters -- we're not experts on every single atom of The Life, The Universe and Everything -- and sometimes have to consult our Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy </picks up an iPad>

Now, I like to say that a rocket gimbal engineer might not know the firmware programming language of the inertial control unit, which may be the speciality of another rocket scientist working on the same rocket.

Likewise, none of us are perfect moderators, but we are proud that our forum has not degraded to Twitter-style discourse levels... (BTW, @BlurBusters is on Twitter, as a good influence).
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mello
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Re: Best windows for competitive gaming

Post by mello » 10 Jun 2020, 14:16

Brainlet wrote:
10 Jun 2020, 11:36
LANs are not to be taken seriously as long as players can bring their own peripherals (which is also just one of many possible methods of injecting).
https://www.reddit.com/r/VACsucks/comme ... tacted_to/
https://www.reddit.com/r/VACsucks/comme ... _pro_csgo/
This is completely irrelevant to what i said. I was not even talking about cheating.
Brainlet wrote:
10 Jun 2020, 11:36
I'm gonna say it again, appeal to authority is not a valid argument when the authority is not legit.
Unfortunately, this is not how it works. An appeal to any authority should be avoided entirely, as it is simply not a valid way of argumentation to support anyone's viewpoint. The only thing that matters is the existence of data and/or scientific evidence in a support of an argument that has been made. The only legit authority is the one with the data and science on its side, any other authority, and especially the one that screams: "trust me, i'm an expert" should not to be trusted blindly.

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." - Albert Einstein
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman
Brainlet wrote:
10 Jun 2020, 11:36
Image
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX31kZb ... .be&t=1025

You can clearly see the scaling in this video. Also, have you ever asked yourself how shroud comes in 4th place out of 5 people when confronted with a mouse that's not his own? Beaten by a casual tech youtuber :)
This is the literal definition of pseudo-evidence.

1) These are not real world tests. The only real world test that matters is in-game test, while playing pub or matches against real players. Practice modes, playing against bots, shooting on special maps at stationary targets, reflex games etc. all of that is completely useless and irrelevant.

2) Everyones brain is wired differently, and everyones eyes work differently. Also, your eyes and your brain always tries to adapt to a given circumstances. The more you are falmiliar with the tests, the better you will be at performing these tests. The same goes for prediction algorithms that your brain is performing.

3) There is a reason why when you switch from gaming on 144Hz to 60Hz, the game will feels worse, slow and choppy. It is because 60Hz is not what you are used to play at. Play for a few hours to a few days, and the game no longer feels worse, slower or choppy. Why ? Because both you brain and eyes adjust and adapt to the change in Hz. Your brain is literally getting rewired.

Performance scaling is there because all of them are used to playing on Hz monitors. So, when you are presented with 60Hz, which feels worse for both your eyes and your brain, then your performance suffers. Redo the tests in a scientific manner, and let them adapt for a few days, and then test them again, and you will see that the difference will be marginal. And as of why Shroud took 4th place in this test is irrelevant, as there are simply too many variables to consider, and i have only mentioned few of them above. And i can guarantee you that, when it comes to actual competition, pro player will never lose to a casual player / youtuber. This is exactly why these kind of tests are useless.
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
10 Jun 2020, 12:29
It's possibly partially related to the training effect, a subchapter (2nd post) of the Milliseconds Matter: The Amazing Human Visible Feats Of The Millisecond thread.

In the spirit of Blur Busters esports commentary neutrality, we see the obvious: Professional olympics sprinters can fall several places back suddenly in practice runs when they switched equipment such as shoe brands as one example. Football players that normally play only on grass vs astroturf, suddenly try to play on a different field surface and fail more often. Environment change and/or equipment change issues can turn a champion player into an average or below-average player. There are those who adapt faster, others adapt slower, when adapting to a different environment/equipment.
Bingo ! There is quite a big difference between adaptation period between different humans when it comes to changes in environment / circumstances / supporting gear that is being used etc. When it comes to gaming, i have seen both kinds of the spectrum. Great online players (100% clean), not performing as well on LAN, as well as the opposite, average or overall good online players performing phenomenally on LAN etc. I also knew people who only needed to set up their sensitivity correctly and they were able to deliver a constant and a high level performance on random PC's, random monitors, and even using generic mouse & generic headphones etc. And i have seen the opposite too, some people needed to set up everything perfectly on LAN and as close as possible to their home set up, to perform at their best.
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
10 Jun 2020, 12:29
Hey Mello, thanks for your thoughtful reply -- always enjoy reading your posts.
Same goes for you Chief :) Love the complexity, attention to detail and the wide range of information and help that you are sharing and providing here.
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
10 Jun 2020, 12:29
The good old adage, "Jack of all trades, masters of none" is quite true. Blur Busters is stupendously specialized on display temporals (refresh rates, frame rates, GtG, MPRT, strobing, blur, etc), and we excel as an authority on those matters.
You have proved that many times before and you continue to do so. Some of your recent posts & information regarding your background, history of BB, the way your brain works (an exchange with flood IIRC) etc. were fascinating to read.
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
10 Jun 2020, 12:29
Likewise, none of us are perfect moderators, but we are proud that our forum has not degraded to Twitter-style discourse levels... (BTW, @BlurBusters is on Twitter, as a good influence).
As the community grows, the more chance of having heated discussions on a relevant topics in the forums. This is a normal progression of things. Personally, i have a big tolerance when it comes to stronger language or even slight insults, and especially when both parties are actually able to deliver a detailed information that supports both of their arguments. Sometimes, more heated exchanges is how people learn more or notice flaws in their logic, rationale and arguments.

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