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Asus 240hz native new screen

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Re: Asus 240hz native new screen

Postby Tokster » 08 Feb 2017, 05:42

RPGWiZaRD wrote:
masterotaku wrote:So does it work with ULMB at 240Hz or not? It would be great to have G-Sync+ULMB at that maximum refresh rate.


Yes that has been confirmed.


Would be so great! But where has it been confirmed? And by who?

For what I can gather it does not support ULMB at 240hz:

I made this post about just that at Linustechtips:
https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/734150-help-with-clarification/

And in the Manual for the PG258Q, on Asus support site under "Driver & Tools" it says on page "3-3":

"ULMB (Ultra Low Motion Blur) (only for DisplayPort input): Adjusts the level of motion blur reduction. This function is available when the refresh rate is 100Hz, 120Hz or 144Hz."

I hope the PG258Q can support up tp 240 hz like the Asus guys said to Linus in the 1. video!
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Re: Asus 240hz native new screen

Postby igluk » 08 Feb 2017, 07:24

Both Tftcentral and Hdtv.pl say that ULMB works only up to 144Hz.
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Re: Asus 240hz native new screen

Postby RPGWiZaRD » 08 Feb 2017, 17:08

Guess it was confirmed until ASUS reps lied to Linus & us about it being 240Hz capable. Although they seemed pretty genuinly impressed by the ULMB performance which makes it a bit strange, I don't think 144Hz vs 120Hz ULMB would be that much different, better probably yea but 240Hz refresh rate with GSYNC IMO would be preferable as a 24/7 setting vs 144Hz ULMB imo still even if the percieved motion smoothness would be a bit better than 240Hz refresh rate.

That or some last minute decision change because they noticed too much overshoot and dialed it back.
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Re: Asus 240hz native new screen

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 10 Feb 2017, 16:14

I wouldn't think ASUS lied -- I think it was a Left hand/Right hand issue -- promising something that they weren't aware wasn't delivered.

Any monitor manufacturer adding GSYNC and ULMB needs to license it from NVIDIA. The law of physics starts to become a burden too. NVIDIA has strict minimum quality standards for ULMB. Any strobe backlight technology that pushes against the LCD limits, will often look like crap (terrible crosstalk / ghosting effects). This is because you need headroom between the refresh cycles to let LCD pixels finish refreshing (the 1ms GtG), as well as the strobe duty cycle time (typically 2ms illumination per refresh cycle) since that's a requirement for high-quality blur reduction. Reduced VSYNC simply creates excessive double-image ghosting issues.

A 240Hz 1ms GtG LCD monitor would have reasonable blur reduction (strobe backlight, like LightBoost) only at ~180Hz or less.
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Re: Asus 240hz native new screen

Postby Q83Ia7ta » 13 Feb 2017, 09:14

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Re: Asus 240hz native new screen

Postby RPGWiZaRD » 13 Feb 2017, 12:49

Q83Ia7ta wrote:new tftcentral review http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/asu ... pg258q.htm


Oh finally! Pls don't suck, otherwise I'll probably be stuck in this forever anxiety of not finding a decent gaming 1080p monitor I wanna upgrade to. :roll:

EDIT:

Quite good, not superb, not bad at all. Slightly below expections though:

- Disappointed to slightly bit lower ~50:1'ish contrast ratio versus the AOC based on the same panel.
- Slightly bit disappointed with RTC overshoot compared to the leaders here, not bad but for the kind of display it is with purely performance/gaming in mind I was still hoping to do sliiiiightly better OD action here.

As for the review I had gladly seen a contrast ratio measurement at 144, 200 and 240Hz to see if there's any drop at all, I mean if it could do like 930:1 calibrated at 200Hz, that for me had been a better sweetspot than say 240Hz and 890:1 as at this contrast ratios you will still want every possible bit of contrast ratio you can salvage meanwhile the 200 vs 240Hz will be a very marginal/very hard thing to differentiate and 200Hz is still greatly above the common 144Hz.

Damn thing is bright! Would love to see those faces of the uneducated average joes being like doood, look at this sparkly vibrant image (at default 80% brightness setting). I guess with this monitor I'd be at perhaps 10~15%, I always keep a well lit room though judging from the slight contrast ratio drop at the lower brightness settings I'd try to go as bright as possible though without going overboard but yea probably not above 15%.

Would have loved to get 165 or 180Hz ULMB at the very least but 144Hz still looks interesting to try.
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Re: Asus 240hz native new screen

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 14 Feb 2017, 22:55

Extra brightness also means lots of headroom for blur reduction --

Especially if you're doing sub-1ms MPRT blur reduction, where you're achieving MPRT numbers smaller than LCD GtG numbers....

Having MPRT numbers smaller than GtG numbers -- aka breaking the GtG barrier via strobe-based blur reduction -- is successfully doable on several gaming LCD monitors nowadays (i.e. ULMB Strobe Duty at smaller numbers on a ROG PG278Q...) -- but resulting in a very dim image; with 0.5ms motion blur you're reducing light output to, say (0.5ms/8.3ms)ths of a refresh cycle, for 0.5ms strobe flashes per 120Hz refresh cycle -- that's roughly 1/15th the light output of Brightness 100% assuming non-boosted strobe flashes.

MPRT numbers (milliseconds) smaller than GtG numbers are possible because the GtG occurs in the total darkness phase of the strobe cycle, and the MPRT number is the length of strobe flash, which can be shorter than the amount of time an LCD does to pretty much complete its GtG transition. As long as you can cram the LCD GtG period into the total darkness period of a blur-reduction backlight, it's possible to break the GtG barrier as a motion blur limitation. Sure, you also have the scan-cycle of an LCD interacting with the globalness of strobe flash (creating more strobe crosstalk at the top/bottom edges of screen), but there are workarounds like accelerated scan and longer blanking intervals.
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Re: Asus 240hz native new screen

Postby Comanglia » 23 Feb 2017, 11:42

Q83Ia7ta wrote:new tftcentral review http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/asu ... pg258q.htm


Image

Am I the only person that's concerned that the pixel gtg at the 200 end point is so bad that in some cases it would take longer than 2 full refreshes at 240Hz?

Their's IPS monitors that don't have GtG that slow...

Curious if they thought the trade off of more controlled RTC overshoot and slower GtG times was worth it for a 240Hz... Cause both the ASUS MG248Q and ASUS PG278Q are pretty close to doing GtG under 4.2ms in the worst case scenario with 5.3ms and 4.4ms respectively.
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Re: Asus 240hz native new screen

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 23 Feb 2017, 11:51

One trick to bypass this is to compress dynamic range, e.g. lower Contrast Ratio. e.g. map 0-255 into range 0-192 (75% dynamic range). This eliminates a lot of ghosting/crosstalk for situations where there's massive GtG issues for certain transitions.

Also, GtG measurements are pretty much a curve, I'm assuming those numbers are milliseconds to 90% transition completion? I'm wondering what GtG measurement cutoff they are using (I'll have to ask Simon Baker). Even many 1ms panels take over >10ms to get to >99% GtG, even if they only take 1ms to finish 90% GtG.
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Re: Asus 240hz native new screen

Postby Comanglia » 23 Feb 2017, 11:54

Chief Blur Buster wrote:One trick to bypass this is to compress dynamic range, e.g. lower Contrast Ratio. e.g. map 0-255 into range 0-192 (75% dynamic range). This eliminates a lot of ghosting/crosstalk for situations where there's massive GtG issues for certain transitions.

Also, GtG measurements are pretty much a curve, I'm assuming those numbers are milliseconds to 90% transition completion? I'm wondering what GtG measurement cutoff they are using (I'll have to ask Simon Baker). Even many 1ms panels take over >10ms to get to >99% GtG, even if they only take 1ms to finish 90% GtG.


How would you do this?

btw I found the answer to the gtg measurements

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/response_time.htm

For our tests we will take a 10% allowance at either end of the scale which is the same process used by all panel manufacturers, and also incorporated at other sites using similar measurement techniques. So we will measure start point when the brightness has changed more than 10% and measure the end point when it reaches 90% of it's required brightness. Thankfully the oscilloscope software allows us to accurately mark these 10 and 90% positions, and we can then simply measure the response time from there.
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