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JOLED to develop high-end OLED gaming monitors

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Re: JOLED to develop high-end OLED gaming monitors

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 23 Feb 2019, 19:22

jorimt wrote:On the OLED VRR subject, it should be noted those already sensitive to lower framerate judder on LCD displays during VRR operation (and film content playback), will likely be even more put off in this respect due to OLED's virtually instantaneous pixel response.

One thing I should add to this topic is GtG response (pixel transition time) and MPRT response (pixel persistence).

These are two different pixel response time measurements. Now that manufacturers are often measuring both, and the more honest manufacturers are displaying both numbers, it's worth explaining the two numbers. Finally, about time!

GtG = Grey To Grey = pixel transition time = length of time a pixel takes to change color for.
MPRT = Moving Picture Response Time = pixel static time = persistence = length of time a pixel stays continuously visible for

Read that carefully. GtG is essentially pixel change and MPRT is essentially pixel non-change.
(They can blend/add into each other though, e.g. very slow GtG lengthening MPRT).

GtG that is a significantly percentage of a refresh cycle, adds visible motion blur. Below that, GtG becomes unimportant. While OLED has almost no GtG, the fact remains is OLED is hugely bottlenecked by MPRT response. The MPRT of a non-strobed OLED and non-strobed TN LCD is darn near virtually identical.

jorimt wrote:E.g. LCD pixel response causes blur (in varying amount depending on the given GtG of the panel) between high persistence (low framerate: <30 under) frames, and OLED has pretty much zero blur, which results in much more obvious judder/frame doubling effects in the same instances.

I also point readers to OLED Motion Blur: Why Do Some OLEDs Have Motion Blur?.

One needs to turn on the Black Frame Insertion feature of an OLED to successfully pass the TestUFO Panning Map Readbility Test.
- The new 2018 LG OLEDs can go as low as 4ms persistence, which is enough to read street name labels at 480pps.
- You need 2ms persistence to be able to read the labels at 960pps
- You need 1ms persistence to be able to read the labels at 1920pps.
As a rule of thumb, you need (x/1000sec persistence) to read 6-point street labels at (x times 2) pixels per second.

None of the 2017 LG OLEDs can pass the TestUFO Readability Test at motion speeds faster than roughly ~240pps. That's the MPRT response bottleneck. The majority of OLED generates exactly the predicted display motion blur that almost equals the MPRT(100%) mathematics of Blur Busters Law -- the exact amount of motion blur is uncannily darn nearly exactly equal to Blur Busters Law.

Mathematically, a screen can have 0ms GtG while having 16.7ms MPRT. Pixel transition time can be completely different from pixel visibility time (persistence) -- how long a pixel is continuously lit for between refresh cycles, adds to motion blur.

Eye movements whenever a pixel is turned on, smears that pixel across retina, generating extra display motion blur caused by static refresh cycles being smeared across your retinas, as testufo.com/eyetracking still shows up "perfect motion blur" on an OLED -- the "eye tracking motion blur" optical illusion, in fact, is actually sharper on an OLED than on an LCD, because there is no more GtG to muddy up the MPRT. The sharper the checkerboard, the more pure the Blur Busters Law is (1ms of pixel visibility time = 1 pixel of motion blur per 1000 pixels/second)

Bring out your Galaxy phone, an iPhone X, or start up an LG OLED HDTV, and load testufo.com/eyetracking and select "Checkerboard" .... The OLED motion blur is still there. The GtG blur is gone, but the MPRT blur is still there. Don't believe me? I'll wait, play this motion test, and if you see a checkerboard, then you have display motion blur, guaranteed, period.. ;)

Certainly the blur is so low on many OLEDs, and there is no visible GtG blur, so many understandably say OLED has no motion blur. But that's only true for GtG blur. The MPRT/persistence blur is there, and if you see any form of any square checkerboard optical illusion, that's display motion blur.

The only way to reduce MPRT is to reduce pixel visibility time.
Reducing pixel visibility time for a frame is done by:
1. Pulsing the pixel briefer (adding black periods between pixel visibility time, e.g. 2ms strobe flash at any Hz = 2ms motion blur)
2. More frames in their refresh cycles with no black periods in between (e.g. 480fps@480Hz = 1/480sec persistence = 2ms motion blur)
3. Combination of both of above.

Also, OLED has no frame doubling effects when no black frame insertion is used.

The frame doubling effects occur because the linear motion blur (Adobe Photoshop style) is "chopped up" by the black time, e.g. 30fps at 60Hz impulsed, 60fps at 120Hz impulsed. Multi-impulsing a refresh cycle in any manner (whether it be by PWM dimming, or via a framerate lower than refresh rate / strobe rate) creates an impression of duplicate images. It's like an Adobe linear motion blur except that the blur is interrupted in between the duplicate images because "the frame is not continuously visible in one smear".

The frame doubling effect only appears if you turn on the OLED's black frame insertion feature (or if the particular OLED uses any PWM dimming feature like some smartphones do) -- and have a frame rate (or refresh rate) below the flicker rate.

Image

By default, OLED doesn't do this unless it's in a PWM-mode or BFI-mode.
It's simply a continuous blur equalling this:

Image
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Re: JOLED to develop high-end OLED gaming monitors

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 23 Feb 2019, 19:52

Image are from Blur Busters Law And The Amazing Journey To Future 1000hz Displays which also nicely explains the difference between GtG versus MPRT, so readers not interested in 1000Hz displays, but needs to understand GtG-versus-MPRT, will find this article super educational even for low-Hz contexts.

NVIDIA hugely complimented me at CES 2019 on this article. For those who originally only quickly skimmed the article, and don't quite understand the difference between GtG blur and MPRT blur on an OLED, I implore those individuals to give a close-study to the 1000 Hz Journey Article as it's currently the "authoritative public Internet article" (Essentially like a bible of the topic matter) in its current revered reputation at the moment.

It's recently become reputationally to high-Hz advocates, as what Jorim's GSYNC 101 has become to GSYNC tweakers. Most papers are too advanced "Science Journal" matters for many readers, while the 1000Hz-Journey piece one is just the right amount of "Popular Science" complexity for an advanced reader.

In fact, the UFO was invented as an intentional motion blur test pattern (see Blur Busters Making Of UFO ...) to make it easy to memorize what 1ms vs 2ms vs 4ms vs 8ms persistence looks like without needing to refer to this chart. I can instantly recognize which approximate persistence a display is, simply by looking at the clarity of the UFO (e.g. eyes, landing legs, dots in UFO, alien face).

Chief Blur Buster wrote:The UFO has multiple tiers of intentional motion blur weaknesses (at 960 pixels/sec):
- Three single-pixel eyes for detecting tiny motion blur (really blurs at >1ms persistence)
- White dots in UFO base for detecting medium motion blur (really blurs at >2ms persistence)
- Two landing legs at UFO bottom for detecting large motion blur (really blurs at >4ms persistence)
- Alien character that becomes a totally unrecognizable motion blur mess on non-strobed displays.
- Yellow dome as a torture test case for LCD ghosting
- Primary full-bright R/G/B colors, combined with full-white and full-black, for simplicity.

That way, I can instantly recognize the estimated persistence of a display by eye alone.
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Re: JOLED to develop high-end OLED gaming monitors

Postby jorimt » 23 Feb 2019, 20:14

^ To the last two above posts: absolutely.

I would clarify my previous post's comment here though, and say that I was specifically only referring to low framerate content, which is problematic for any display technology, and while I stated that OLED has virtually no blur due to its virtually 0 "GtG" pixel response, yes, MPRT can still create blur on (sample-and-hold) OLED due to native frame persistence, but that with the GtG transitional blur effectively gone, it makes the gaps between higher persistence frames (especially 33.3ms and up) more obvious in motion when directly compared to current LCD tech.

Thus, the only 100% real, permanent fix for judder in low framerate content is (both unfortunately, for the here and now [a.k.a. existing film content], and fortunately, for the eventual possibility of) replacing it with higher native framerate content (obviously paired with ever increasing native refresh rates in displays).

Just something to note for VRR enthusiast that think this is going to cure all their issues with current LCD VRR tech.

That said, contrast ratio and native panel blur levels (no overdrive artifacts, in fact, no overdrive needed at all) will be massively improved on OLED over LCD monitors, for certain.

How they handle image retention and burn-in on these first-gen panels though, will be the most interesting thing to see.
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Re: JOLED to develop high-end OLED gaming monitors

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 23 Feb 2019, 20:23

jorimt wrote:I would clarify my previous post's comment here though, and say that I was specifically only referring to low framerate content, which is problematic for any display technology, and while I stated that OLED has virtually no blur due to its virtually 0 "GtG" pixel response

Oh yes, that's correct. Slow GtG can still be visible at low framerates. Even playing 5 frames per second on a very old LCD still was visible (e.g. 33ms and 50ms LCDs). The frames just "faded into each other". It can be definitely can be perceived as a sensation of motion blur.

Low framerate of OLED has zero noticeable fade, the frames just instantly snap from one image to the next.

No frame-fade-into-frame like a very old LCD (or a frozen smartphone forgotten overnight in a car in the middle of a Canadian winter).

jorimt wrote:Thus, the only 100% real, permanent fix for judder in low framerate content is [...] replacing it with higher native framerate content

Or, obviously, the temporary fix of a frame rate amplification technology.
Whether be -- old laggy interpolation algorithms -- or newer tech such as Oculus Asynchronous Space Warp feature of my Rift VR headset.
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Re: JOLED to develop high-end OLED gaming monitors

Postby jorimt » 23 Feb 2019, 20:28

Chief Blur Buster wrote:Or, obviously, the temporary fix of a frame rate amplification technology.
Whether be -- old laggy interpolation algorithms -- or newer tech such as Oculus Asynchronous Space Warp feature of my Rift VR headset.

Right, though interpolation quality varies, and even the best adds some input lag and some motion artifacting, currently.

I'm not familiar with Oculus Asyncronous Time Warp (never tried VR), so I can't speak to that one.

But yes, it would be great if they could eventually find a way to interpolate static lower framerate content (such as film) without the overall uncanny look or artifacts.
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Re: JOLED to develop high-end OLED gaming monitors

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 23 Feb 2019, 20:45

Just posted a new reply to the thread:
Frame Rate Amplification Technologies

Chief Blur Buster wrote:There are many terminologies for various kinds of frame rate amplification technologies.
  • Asynchronous Space Warp
  • Deep Learning Super Sampling (DLSS)
  • Interpolation (especially AI interpolation)
  • Etc.

Chief Blur Buster wrote:They use extremely different methods to create results.
  • Some use a lower-resolution base and upscale (thanks to internal AI knowledge of what a high resolution frame looks like)
  • Some fills in missing frames using AI algorithms to prevent lag
  • Some fills in missing frames using some reprojection shortcuts, to prevent lookforward lag
  • Some require both lookforward and lookbehind with a rudimentary math formula (classic interpolation)
  • Weird combinations of two more more of the above
  • Other future techniques not yet invented
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Re: JOLED to develop high-end OLED gaming monitors

Postby Notty_PT » 24 Feb 2019, 18:33

It´s a shame DLSS only works with RTX. If Nvidia make it work on every game in every situation without RTX, then RTX cards are automatically a game changing product. As it is DLSS is still very limited.
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Re: JOLED to develop high-end OLED gaming monitors

Postby RealNC » 28 Feb 2019, 08:31

jorimt wrote:Right, though interpolation quality varies, and even the best adds some input lag and some motion artifacting, currently.

I'm not familiar with Oculus Asyncronous Time Warp (never tried VR), so I can't speak to that one.

I'm not familiar with it either, but if it has no lag then it could be they're extrapolating, not just interpolating. Extrapolation doesn't need to be "slightly behind" in time. It can be real-time. But it can result in heavy artifacting, since it's predicting future frames.
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Re: JOLED to develop high-end OLED gaming monitors

Postby Chief Blur Buster » 28 Feb 2019, 14:00

One thing to keep in mind is that interpolation is black box.

While several frame rate amplification technologies can have the feed of high-frequency head tracking data.

Let's consider my Oculus Rift.

So turning your head can more accurate do a perceptually flawless turn -- at 90 frames per second created from 45 frames per second. More flawless than the I-frames of an MPEG2 or MPEG4 stream. Because it already knows what direction the view needs to turn in. 1000Hz USB controller data can give you new relevant data ahead of the low frame rate.

In other words, graphics can be more flawlessly reprojected if the frame rate amplification tech isn't completely black box (like interpolation).

Also, frame rate amplification technologies may partially access things like Z-buffer (to prevent parallax artifacts of in-between frames).
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Re: JOLED to develop high-end OLED gaming monitors

Postby Kheri » 28 Mar 2019, 22:22

They're coming out with those "Asus ProArt PQ22UC" art stations so that's a good sign, I hope. Just need patience.
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