Samsung QD OLED

High Hz on OLED produce excellent strobeless motion blur reduction with fast GtG pixel response. It is easier to tell apart 60Hz vs 120Hz vs 240Hz on OLED than LCD, and more visible to mainstream. Includes WOLED and QD-OLED displays.
User avatar
Chief Blur Buster
Site Admin
Posts: 11647
Joined: 05 Dec 2013, 15:44
Location: Toronto / Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Re: Samsung QD OLED

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 06 Jul 2022, 18:32

Would love to see a 960fps high speed video of the OLED refresh cycles from www.testufo.com/scanout

Knowing what this looks like will help determine what's going on.

Samsung Galaxy smartphones have a 960fps super-slo-mo feature, and was used to capture slow-motion refresh cycles of IPS LCD, TN LCD and 60Hz OLED.

Also, when seeing www.testufo.com/crosstalk -- are there duplicate images? (Could be multi-PWM per refresh cycle)
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

Image
Forum Rules wrote:  1. Rule #1: Be Nice. This is published forum rule #1. Even To Newbies & People You Disagree With!
  2. Please report rule violations If you see a post that violates forum rules, then report the post.
  3. ALWAYS respect indie testers here. See how indies are bootstrapping Blur Busters research!

howiec
Posts: 183
Joined: 17 Jun 2014, 15:36

Re: Samsung QD OLED

Post by howiec » 21 Jul 2022, 18:01

Chief Blur Buster wrote:
06 Jul 2022, 18:32
Would love to see a 960fps high speed video of the OLED refresh cycles from www.testufo.com/scanout
I would if I could but I just found out that my stupid S22 Ultra only does true 480fps while the lower-end S22 models do true 960fps due to different camera sensors.

User avatar
Chief Blur Buster
Site Admin
Posts: 11647
Joined: 05 Dec 2013, 15:44
Location: Toronto / Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Re: Samsung QD OLED

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 22 Jul 2022, 04:15

howiec wrote:
21 Jul 2022, 18:01
Chief Blur Buster wrote:
06 Jul 2022, 18:32
Would love to see a 960fps high speed video of the OLED refresh cycles from www.testufo.com/scanout
I would if I could but I just found out that my stupid S22 Ultra only does true 480fps while the lower-end S22 models do true 960fps due to different camera sensors.
480fps will still be nominally useful. But that's less than 3 captures per display refresh cycles, which makes scanout harder to identify.

That being said, I really want to see more smartphone sensors capable of true ~1000fps continuous high-def recording. And API access.

Side note -- ~1000fps+ smartphone camera sensors would allow eventual display lag-testing apps (via using camera sensors as a lag tester), democratizing display latency testing, with the bonus of lag-heatmapping the whole screen plane all at once. Instead of single-pixel photodiode sensors that only test one part of a display panel, without latency gradients or latency heatmaps (not all pixels refresh at the same time). Even at 1ms granularity, the sudden access to the lag of the whole screen, rather than a single-pixel Arduino photodiode, is going to be a boon of lag-testing towards the end of the decade, if ~1000fps+ API-controlled camera sensors become widespread. Hopefully.
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

Image
Forum Rules wrote:  1. Rule #1: Be Nice. This is published forum rule #1. Even To Newbies & People You Disagree With!
  2. Please report rule violations If you see a post that violates forum rules, then report the post.
  3. ALWAYS respect indie testers here. See how indies are bootstrapping Blur Busters research!

life_at_1ms
Posts: 38
Joined: 31 Oct 2019, 03:20

Re: Samsung QD OLED

Post by life_at_1ms » 28 Sep 2022, 16:50

What's the best QD-OLED on the market right now? Hopefully something non-curved...

User avatar
Chief Blur Buster
Site Admin
Posts: 11647
Joined: 05 Dec 2013, 15:44
Location: Toronto / Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Re: Samsung QD OLED

Post by Chief Blur Buster » 29 Sep 2022, 15:28

life_at_1ms wrote:
28 Sep 2022, 16:50
What's the best QD-OLED on the market right now? Hopefully something non-curved...
I predict there will be CES 2023 related announcements so uncertain fans can choose to wait until then, if they want to find out more about the future of OLED in gaming.
Head of Blur Busters - BlurBusters.com | TestUFO.com | Follow @BlurBusters on Twitter

Image
Forum Rules wrote:  1. Rule #1: Be Nice. This is published forum rule #1. Even To Newbies & People You Disagree With!
  2. Please report rule violations If you see a post that violates forum rules, then report the post.
  3. ALWAYS respect indie testers here. See how indies are bootstrapping Blur Busters research!

User avatar
NeonPizza
Posts: 64
Joined: 20 Oct 2021, 03:01

Re: Samsung QD OLED

Post by NeonPizza » 19 Mar 2023, 18:17

Any word on the motion persistence, Clarity & input lag for Samsung's new S95C QD-OLED 60hz BFI?
Some people are saying that it flickers like crazy, which doesn't really make it viable.

My C1's MotionPro High setting produces less motion blur than my lousy S60 Plasma(I say lousy, because it has very average motion by plasma standards), but I'm not entirely sure where the C1's persistence ranks on the MS scale. I've heard it also has around 600-650p motion clarity too.

Adi-C
Posts: 12
Joined: 08 Jul 2020, 02:36

Re: Samsung QD OLED

Post by Adi-C » 20 Mar 2023, 08:59

NeonPizza wrote:
19 Mar 2023, 18:17
Any word on the motion persistence, Clarity & input lag for Samsung's new S95C QD-OLED 60hz BFI?
Rtings review has got a graph of bfi. It's typical 60hz- 8ms on, 8ms off (black frame). So the same as last year qdoled, and lg c2.
NeonPizza wrote:
19 Mar 2023, 18:17
My C1's MotionPro High setting produces less motion blur than my lousy S60 Plasma(I say lousy, because it has very average motion by plasma standards), but I'm not entirely sure where the C1's persistence ranks on the MS scale. I've heard it also has around 600-650p motion clarity too.
C1 bfi on high is 4.2ms, so 2x better than what came after with c2, s95 etc.

User avatar
NeonPizza
Posts: 64
Joined: 20 Oct 2021, 03:01

Re: Samsung QD OLED

Post by NeonPizza » 20 Mar 2023, 15:00

Adi-C wrote:
20 Mar 2023, 08:59
NeonPizza wrote:
19 Mar 2023, 18:17
Any word on the motion persistence, Clarity & input lag for Samsung's new S95C QD-OLED 60hz BFI?
Rtings review has got a graph of bfi. It's typical 60hz- 8ms on, 8ms off (black frame). So the same as last year qdoled, and lg c2.
NeonPizza wrote:
19 Mar 2023, 18:17
My C1's MotionPro High setting produces less motion blur than my lousy S60 Plasma(I say lousy, because it has very average motion by plasma standards), but I'm not entirely sure where the C1's persistence ranks on the MS scale. I've heard it also has around 600-650p motion clarity too.
C1 bfi on high is 4.2ms, so 2x better than what came after with c2, s95 etc.
Wow! Didn't realize the C1's 'MotionPro high' persistence was around 4ms....Disappointing to hear that the S95c's is 8ms. Doubt I'll be using it then. I'm looking to upgrade, not downgrade. :P

BTW, the S95C in SDR game mode using 60hz BFI offers roughly around 140 nits of brightness, do you know how much brightness you're getting when using MotionPro HIGH in SDR game mode on the LG C1? I'm assuming the Samsung is brighter since it's boasting QD-OLED tech AND because the persistence is 2x as high, i mean take a look at RTNGS SDR nit numbers and the S95B & S95C are noticeably brighter. As is, the picture just isn't bright enough for my liking with MP High for the C1's SDR game mode. Flicks can be a little distracting on whites too.

I dont know, i think I'd rather just force games into 120fps using the S95C's motion interpolation feature in game mode. it should have the same 8ms persistence and i'm assuming motion clarity as samsung's 60hz BFI, but instead with MI, you don't lose any brightness, don't have to deal with flicker or possible BFI shadow detail crushing. According to RTNGS, input lag is 19.4ms with game mode's motion interpolation too.

Adi-C
Posts: 12
Joined: 08 Jul 2020, 02:36

Re: Samsung QD OLED

Post by Adi-C » 21 Mar 2023, 05:40

NeonPizza wrote:
20 Mar 2023, 15:00
Wow! Didn't realize the C1's 'MotionPro high' persistence was around 4ms....
Cx (2020 models) apparently goes even lower @3.5ms at bfi high, but the near black areas may be worse than c1, but I don't know that for sure. I think c2 further improved blacks somewhat again.

I wrote more about a few oleds persistence based on rtings reviews graphs here:
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=10233&p=83112#p83112
Sadly s95C, this year's model is again limited to 60hz and 8.4ms persistence... And 2023 lg's are too.
NeonPizza wrote:
20 Mar 2023, 15:00
BTW, the S95C in SDR game mode using 60hz BFI offers roughly around 140 nits of brightness, do you know how much brightness you're getting when using MotionPro HIGH in SDR game mode on the LG C1?
Yeah, sorry, no, I don't own any of these, I'm just interested in bfi, but I can't check it myself.
NeonPizza wrote:
20 Mar 2023, 15:00
I'm assuming the Samsung is brighter since it's boasting QD-OLED tech AND because the persistence is 2x as high, i mean take a look at RTNGS SDR nit numbers and the S95B & S95C are noticeably brighter.
Yeah, I've heard that s95B, so 2022 model in BFI mode is... brighter than lg without bfi! Dunno which lg model though. Is s95C brighter than "B" model, or the input lag- I dunno, sorry.

User avatar
NeonPizza
Posts: 64
Joined: 20 Oct 2021, 03:01

Re: Samsung QD OLED

Post by NeonPizza » 21 Mar 2023, 13:18

Adi-C wrote:
21 Mar 2023, 05:40
NeonPizza wrote:
20 Mar 2023, 15:00
Wow! Didn't realize the C1's 'MotionPro high' persistence was around 4ms....
Cx (2020 models) apparently goes even lower @3.5ms at bfi high, but the near black areas may be worse than c1, but I don't know that for sure. I think c2 further improved blacks somewhat again.

I wrote more about a few oleds persistence based on rtings reviews graphs here:
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=10233&p=83112#p83112
Sadly s95C, this year's model is again limited to 60hz and 8.4ms persistence... And 2023 lg's are too.
NeonPizza wrote:
20 Mar 2023, 15:00
BTW, the S95C in SDR game mode using 60hz BFI offers roughly around 140 nits of brightness, do you know how much brightness you're getting when using MotionPro HIGH in SDR game mode on the LG C1?
Yeah, sorry, no, I don't own any of these, I'm just interested in bfi, but I can't check it myself.
NeonPizza wrote:
20 Mar 2023, 15:00
I'm assuming the Samsung is brighter since it's boasting QD-OLED tech AND because the persistence is 2x as high, i mean take a look at RTNGS SDR nit numbers and the S95B & S95C are noticeably brighter.
Yeah, I've heard that s95B, so 2022 model in BFI mode is... brighter than lg without bfi! Dunno which lg model though. Is s95C brighter than "B" model, or the input lag- I dunno, sorry.
Ultimately though, I think for the vast majority of people that value motion wont find ANY LG or Samsung OLED's BFI worth while because of how pronounced, distracting, bothersome and eye straining the flicker is on whites. Even if the BFI black crushing and near black gamma issuse were some how corrected on my C1, I still wouldn't use it for streaming movies/TV just because of how unbearable the flicks are.
It's noticeably worse than a plasma. It completely botches OLED BFI and doesn't make it viable.

OLED BFI is basically just a tease in my eyes at this point. What these TV manufactures could give you, but it seems like they have little desire improving upon BFI because most people don't use it anyways. So, back to 300p motion clarity with a high 16ms persistence for streaming. Bummer. Tis what it is until they reduce those BFI flicks somehow, lower persistence and increase motion clarity, even if it means 120nits in SDR.

I would 1000x prefer watching movies on a QD-OLED with a 1ms persistence @1080p motion clarity using BFI with tolerable flicks, than a movie in HDR with 16ms persistence @300p motion clarity. :P

Anyways, BFI could still come in handy with Game mode(Flicker is less distracting when gaming i find on my C1, but it all depends), but with the S95B, it's dishing out 28ms of latency, so why even bother, and the 8ms persistence makes it less desirable, although it's still better than 16...I don't know, using the S95C's motion interpolation feature in game mode might be the ticket! IF it gives you most of the benefits of an actual game running at 120fps. 8ms persistence, 600p motion clarity and that buttery smooth motion(but with the odd motion jank since it's interpolation instead of the real thing), but instead of dropping lag down to 5ms, it shoots it up to 19.3ms.

Post Reply